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Ok so the Zouave were North African French soldiers and then for some odd reason their look was used for elite units in the American Civil War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zouave#Zouaves_of_the_United_States_of_America_and_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

The point being the Perrys just made them in plastic with seperate heads.

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/698620/











And they're cheap too! So I can see someone using them with plastic Cadians as a head swap source or maybe as conscript units in a metal tallarn army.

I have some Perry Napoleonics I use for bitz, their stuff is smaller than GW (25mm vs 28mm) but top quality. these will definitely go on my list.

I'm slowly kitbashing together a pastiche WWI Ottoman style force for a game that I'm designing, and these guys look like they would fit in nicely with that. Thanks for the head's up.

The French Army used Zouaves in their North African campaigns in the mid 19th century.

Until 1870 the French Army had the best reputation in the world, so a lot of ACW militia regiments had their uniforms done in zouave fashion as a kind of elite force.

Kilkrazy wrote:The French Army used Zouaves in their North African campaigns in the mid 19th century.

Until 1870 the French Army had the best reputation in the world, so a lot of ACW militia regiments had their uniforms done in zouave fashion as a kind of elite force.

Next to the Iron Brigade, and the Irish brigades generally Zouves were some of the best troops on both sides. During the ACW their weren't any "militia" regt's in active service as if they were National Guard then they were federalised.

Most forces on both sides were state militia.

The entire federal army was under 20,000 strong at the outset.

Kilkrazy wrote:Most forces on both sides were state militia.

The entire federal army was under 20,000 strong at the outset.

What he's saying is that after the war broke out, the state militias (the Union ones at the very least, can't speak for the Southern States) were federalized and taken control of by the Federal Government. I suppose they were still state militia, even if they didn't meet the description.

Personally, I was thinking of using them as conscripts in a Praetorian army. Find some heads w/ desert kepi's and give them a darker skin tone. The 'Emperor's Afarikan Rifles' regiment.

FYI, Zouve units weren't any more elite than any other unit in terms of battlefield performance. State militia units had their own uniforms, many of these state militia units volunteered their entire units, and some kept their uniforms. Some wealthy men raised companies or regiments to volunteer together so they could become officers of the units they raised, and sometimes that rich guy would design and pay for special uniforms for them. Some were allowed to keep the special uniforms because it helped with recruitment, since there some people thought there was some prestige in wearing a zouve uniform. But in terms of their fighting abilities, they weren't elite in any way.

@Albino: Yes your right on many angles that some of the zouves units weren't elite, but (and I will have to go digging because I can't remember the brigade atm) their was a brigade of zouves that used kepis in stead of the little fidoras that was considered a top notch unit. I can't speak for the south as I know they had them but not sure overall abilities.

I will say though this is the best year of any for a long time to release American Civil War Models.

Maybe the Louisiana Tigers? They were somewhat famous, though only some of them wore the Zouve uniform.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tigers

I had forgot about them but the sketch brought my memory back to life on that. Like I said though this is the perfect year for ANY ACW releases, and if you are an American and don't know why then you need to be shot!!

Empchild wrote:I had forgot about them but the sketch brought my memory back to life on that. Like I said though this is the perfect year for ANY ACW releases, and if you are an American and don't know why then you need to be shot!!

It's the anniversary of the War of South Treason!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Empchild wrote:I had forgot about them but the sketch brought my memory back to life on that. Like I said though this is the perfect year for ANY ACW releases, and if you are an American and don't know why then you need to be shot!!

It's the anniversary of the War of South Treason!

But its 2011... and the war broke out in 1861. I'm sorry, but I only do the big anniversaries, like 10, 50, 100, 200. 150 just isn't worth it. It's like, YEAH! you made it 100 years!!! Now lets go another 100. No, you don't get one half way, if you made it 100 years, you can wait another 100.

I mean, after 100 years, 150 years is no different than 149, or 151, or 132, or 176, etc.

Kilkrazy wrote:The French Army used Zouaves in their North African campaigns in the mid 19th century.

Until 1870 the French Army had the best reputation in the world, so a lot of ACW militia regiments had their uniforms done in zouave fashion as a kind of elite force.

That is not quite true AFAIK, a.o. as French troops were beaten 1813/1815, never recovered (under weak rulership of Napoleon III) and were soon to be beaten again. My version:

1.) US high society at that time deemed French culture, cloths and language as being the best of the world, you could show off by using French language, expressons and women wearing dresses from Paris.

2.) Napoleon I. had a campaign in Egypt. Elite troups of the Egyptian army were taken from Turkey, wearing a fez and these peculiar wide trousers. Became fashion in the French army (in addition to the cepi, also adopted by the US army in pre-ACW times).

3.) So when the first Zuave regiment was formed in pre-civil war USA, many people recruited just to look so cool. So more Zuave regiments were formed in North and South. I don't think they were elite though, although they had some money.

4.) Confederate Zuave had a problem during the civil war, wearing blue coats and being mistook for Union regiments all too often, so they dropped this uniform to a conventional grey one (and later brown one due to general supply problems).

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Most forces on both sides were state militia.

The entire federal army was under 20,000 strong at the outset.

What he's saying is that after the war broke out, the state militias (the Union ones at the very least, can't speak for the Southern States) were federalized and taken control of by the Federal Government. I suppose they were still state militia, even if they didn't meet the description.

They weren't.

The state militias were raised by their states. Uniforms and equipment were provided by their states. They elected their own officers, or had them appointed by their states. Some of the bad effects of this were very variable training levels, quality of command, and a lack of standardized equipment. In addition, purchasing commissions from different states sometimes bid against each other for the purchase of weapons, driving up prices.

What the federal goverment did was to pay for them and integrate them into the overall federal army command structure, along with the small number of regular army troops, however they were often commanded at quite high levels by militia officers with pro tem commissions.

ok, TY, for the history lessons.. but wat has this to do with new perry minis....

orc master wrote:ok, TY, for the history lessons.. but wat has this to do with new perry minis....

Perhaps to debate their use, or as to why someone would want to use them in an American Civil War game?

orc master wrote:ok, TY, for the history lessons.. but wat has this to do with new perry minis....

To clarify:
1.) What are Zuaves?
2.) Who uses them for what? (-> Union all the war, Confederates early war)
3.) Why do they have those funny trousers?

Miniatures for historical games sometimes have a history behind them

Did I see that correctly?
42 figures for £18?

Hats off to Perry Miniatures. To my inexperienced eye they look good.

History or "ye olde fluffe" is good!

Plastic production is much more afordable than GW wants us to believe. You will notice the general tredn in historical plastics is to give you 50 guys for the price of 10 cadians. And companies like Perry and Victrix are no slouches when it comes to details and options.

Wow. Give them the Turbans With Gasmasks heads from Ramshackle, and some lasguns, and you have a really characterful Guard army.

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18&zenid=7c70c9ad516dc85cb6ffa80ac7c0496a

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Empchild wrote:I had forgot about them but the sketch brought my memory back to life on that. Like I said though this is the perfect year for ANY ACW releases, and if you are an American and don't know why then you need to be shot!!

It's the anniversary of the War of South Treason!

But its 2011... and the war broke out in 1861. I'm sorry, but I only do the big anniversaries, like 10, 50, 100, 200. 150 just isn't worth it. It's like, YEAH! you made it 100 years!!! Now lets go another 100. No, you don't get one half way, if you made it 100 years, you can wait another 100.

I mean, after 100 years, 150 years is no different than 149, or 151, or 132, or 176, etc.

Sure, there's an anniversary for every event every year. Why pick any particular one as significant? Well, actually, 150 is unique in that 50 is a nice round number and it occurs within a single lifetime for most people. It's an arbitrary number, but as good as any given it's half a century. An awful lot of people who are around for this year's commemorative activities won't be around for the 200th anniversary. A lot of museums and parks already started special activities related to this last year and it should continue throughout this year. So good luck waiting for that 200th anniversary. Unless you're 20 years old or less odds are you won't get there and even if you are that young a lot can happen in 50 years that will prevent you getting there.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Empchild wrote:I had forgot about them but the sketch brought my memory back to life on that. Like I said though this is the perfect year for ANY ACW releases, and if you are an American and don't know why then you need to be shot!!

It's the anniversary of the War of South Treason!

i like that name. i think i'll use that one the next time in my response when i hear something about northern aggression!

Nice figures, a really good use for them would be if the Empire in WHFB had rifles instead of handgunners. That would be a fun and good looking army.

Kroothawk wrote:

orc master wrote:ok, TY, for the history lessons.. but wat has this to do with new perry minis....

To clarify:
1.) What are Zuaves?
2.) Who uses them for what? (-> Union all the war, Confederates early war)
3.) Why do they have those funny trousers?

Miniatures for historical games sometimes have a history behind them

Zouaves were north African tribal warriors who both fought against and were recruited into the French Army of the mid-19th century, when the French were taking over Algeria and such places.
Until 1870, the French Army was considered the best in the world.

Zouaves had an exciting uniform, which is commonly seen among "native" and "border" troops such as Hussars and British Highlanders. These troops and their uniforms often got adopted into official service.

Before the ACW, some militia regiments turned themselves into Zouaves because of the reputation of the French Army and the exciting uniforms. They were all standard infantry and fought in the line with all the other regiments. Both sides had some, but the north had more, because they had more people.

During the war, most but not all Zouave regiments converted to standard uniforms.

The funny trousers are part of the Zouave uniform.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Wow. Give them the Turbans With Gasmasks heads from Ramshackle, and some lasguns, and you have a really characterful Guard army.

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18&zenid=7c70c9ad516dc85cb6ffa80ac7c0496a

Unfortunately, there are no lasguns that would look in-scale with these. I've built Perry miniatures by myself, they're really, really tiny. by comparison to GW. They really cannot be made to work for 40k.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Wow. Give them the Turbans With Gasmasks heads from Ramshackle, and some lasguns, and you have a really characterful Guard army.

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18&zenid=7c70c9ad516dc85cb6ffa80ac7c0496a

Lasguns would probably look way out of scale on them, the Perry do realistic limbs and realisticly scaled guns. Lasgun tips might work on the end of the rifles or just call them autoguns and go from there.

@Kilkrazy:
My post was not a question, but an answer to the quoted post.
Some more details:
Zouaves originated from the Algerian district Zuaua and were already mercenaries in the Osman Empire (that's why I mistook them for Turks in my above post). France created the Corps des Zouaves in 1830. Those Zouave regiments became famous in the Crimean War (1853-1856), inspiring other nations to copy the uniforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zouave

I still can't follow you on the remark, that the French army was considered the best until 1870, as in that century, the army has been beaten by Russian, British and Prussian troops in the Napoleonic Wars, by US-troops in North America and was only successful against some African tribes. It degenerated under the weak regime of Napoleon III and was finally humiliated 1870 by the Prussians.

Yeah, I would probably take the approach of adding lasgun tips. The fluff suggests that every planet's lasgun is different anyway...

You could probably do something similar to what I did with some Victrix plastic to make my conscripts:
http://adventuresinminiaturegaming.blogspot.com/2010/08/renegade-imperial-guard-conscript.html

Some of them took a bit of work, but if you just want to replace the tip of the rifle with a lasgun tip and make las-muskets, it's a breeze. And it probably would be easy to use those arms with the rifles shouldered and replace the whole rifle with a lasgun. But trying to model them so they look like they are aiming for firing a lasgun would be difficult.

Kroothawk wrote:@Kilkrazy:

I still can't follow you on the remark, that the French army was considered the best until 1870, as in that century, the army has been beaten by Russian, British and Prussian troops in the Napoleonic Wars, by US-troops in North America and was only successful against some African tribes. It degenerated under the weak regime of Napoleon III and was finally humiliated 1870 by the Prussians.

I'd like to point out that if it needed a three army coalition to beat French army, perhaps it's because it was not that a bad army

On topic: Anyone knows the quality of the plastic here? Could the feet be easily removed from the attached bases?