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Hey mates, recently I posted that I was debating to get a second Army other then my Empire and as it says above I decided to with the Dark Elves! What attracted me to them was the ability to field some really nasty units, as well as the different, more finess style of playing this army compared to my empire. So anyways, just looking for some tips and some advice from an Veteran Dark Elf players on whats effective and whats not this eddition and other tactical advice you are willing to share and thanks for the help. However, one unit i'm really tempted to try out would be a horde unot of around 40x Executioners w/FC, with a BSB in the unit with the ASF banner, while being backed up by a caldrone of blood, which has a recipe for just a brutal outcome for my oppenent

ASF is wasted on a unit with great weapons.
Khainite units can only be joined by a Hag BSB, so your BSB is T3 5+ ward(at best).
If your opponent has a Init 6 hero, you might lose the Hag before any of the executioners swing.

40 Executioners work fine without the ASF banner. Few things kill more than 10 WS5 models a turn, so you still have 30 S6 killing blow hate attacks coming back.

Where the ASF banner does shine is in a unit of witch elves (with the armor piercing banner).
30 witch elves toss out 50 poison attacks and actually striking 1st does some serious damage.
You're looking at 20 to 30 wounds, depending on targets weapon skill and toughness.
In both cases, cauldrons to give them a ward save is usually best, and the free stubborn is huge.


-Matt

Just a couple pieces of general advice:
- You cant go wrong with corsairs. theyre decently priced, have a bonus to their save vs. shooting, and the ap banner or the frenzy banner can make them really pack a punch
- Xbows are great hybrid units if you give them shields. they can put out a lot of ranged attacks and can still take a few hits in hand to hand.
- DE magic can be pretty serious. the power of darkness spell is downright invaluable. They also got a nice selection of items to boost power/dispell dice.

As fo the executioners with the death hag bsb and the asf banner, its worked well for me (tho i kept it on a smaller scale), but its a hell of a point sink and can easily be a nice target for archers/war machines/big spells of doom. Keep a caldron nearby to keep em stubborn and drop that ward save on em.

I have considered Witch elves over Executioners, but I just enjoy the Executioners fluff a lot more and though I agree it is a point sink, its still pretty daunting to have a bunch of S6 attacks w/killing blow striking first before anything else. Besides this unit, this is what I've been considering:

-2x Hydra's for obvious reasons.

-Around either 20x to 30x repeater crossbows in units of 10x with shields and maybe a unit or 2x of 30x dark elf spearmen.

-Level 4 Sorceress w/sacrificial dagger w/a unit of 15x to spears.

-Cauldron of Blood

And finally maybe a unit of Cold One knights but not to sure about this yet. But anyways, what has proven effective for Dark Elves in 8th and what has not, and what are some good tactics to run with DE because I hope to start colecting them soon once my empire swordsmen unit finally arrives from ebay.

GK wrote:I have considered Witch elves over Executioners, but I just enjoy the Executioners fluff a lot more and though I agree it is a point sink, its still pretty daunting to have a bunch of S6 attacks w/killing blow striking first before anything else. Besides this unit, this is what I've been considering:

Executioners with the ASF banner strike at init 5, not first.
Great weapons are ASL, and ASF and ASL CANCEL each other out(unless you're a high elf).
So are swinging at init 5; which is good, but you risk an init 6 hero killing the BSB before the executioners go at init 5. If that happens, you lose not only the BSB, but suddenly you're Init5 guys are back to swinging last.

If you want to go with the dagger, you'll want more than 15 victims... I mean spearmen. By turn 2, or 3, you're very short on spearmen, to the point where use of the dagger could cause panic tests.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:So are swinging at init 5; which is good, but you risk an init 6 hero killing the BSB before the executioners go at init 5. If that happens, you lose not only the BSB, but suddenly you're Init5 guys are back to swinging last.

I think you're more likely to lose her to sniping spells unless something that is well-protected goes after her since the Death Hag isn't a slouch in combat and would get the true ASF bonus. Still definitely far more of a pointsink than I'd personally consider using.

Yeah, I have to agree that the BSB Hag is not an optimum solution.

1) She is soft and squishy. No matter how you say it, she is W2 T3 5+ ward AT BEST. She dies in the first round of combat unless you are fantastically careful in maneuvering your charge so that she never makes contact with the enemy... who might well reform to a wider frontage next round and get her then.

2) She is quite expensive. Thus, she is a prime target for recieving a lot of enemy attention in an attempt to collect those easy VP. This is even worse in the breakpoint scenairo, where she is going to be your easiest banner to kill.

2a) Subpoint: She costs as much as 13-17 regular Executioners. Yes, as much as two or three RANKS of Executioners.

I submit that the bigger unit is going to perform better with the extra ranks and potential supporting attacks (not to mention extra wounds!) than the one that hopes the BSB is going to live to the second round so you get to use her again. If the enemy is I6 or better (rare, I know), then you are hoping that she survives the first round so you get to use her... at all.


Looking over the Bestiary, I realize just how rare I6 or better is. Aside from characters, there are 5... plus the entire HE army, of course. DE Black Guard, Cold One Knights/Chariots, Witch Elves; WE Wardancers. That's it.

Of course, it's not going to help your Hag BSB survive the first round, but at least the Executioners are likely to have gotten their swings in first. For what that's worth...

EDIT: Also, by loosing the Hag BSB, you've lost your BSB, arguably the most important model in your army. I submit that a much better protected Master BSB with heavy (probably magical) armor and ward saves (4+ if not POK inverse ward save) is much more likely to survive... and keep doing what he needs to do, which is allow psychology rerolls.

Granted, he can't go in the unit of Executioners... but then, he doesn't have to.

Does there exist somewhere a good Dark Elf tactica?

Thanks for the input so far mates, and I have been looking at it and since I'm planning to take the Cauldron of Blood, my BSB could be put to better use since the Executioners will be stubborn and can get a 5+ ward save if I come across any elite infantry, so I will at most run a unit of 30x w/FC in a 6x5 formation. Also, after looking around i keep hearing about this unkillable Dread Lord combo so could someone shead some light on this.

GK wrote:Thanks for the input so far mates, and I have been looking at it and since I'm planning to take the Cauldron of Blood, my BSB could be put to better use since the Executioners will be stubborn and can get a 5+ ward save if I come across any elite infantry, so I will at most run a unit of 30x w/FC in a 6x5 formation. Also, after looking around i keep hearing about this unkillable Dread Lord combo so could someone shead some light on this.

The fun part is you can make your Cauldron of Blood your BSB. For 225 points you have a very hard-to-kill BSB (outside of initiative tests). She cannot pass any magical effects to anyone, but the re-rolling leadership still applies.

The 7th ed unkillable dreadlord was a 2+ armor, 4+ regen, Reverse Ward. He was a royal pain in the butt to kill. With the advent of 8th edition we can no longer stack Regen and Ward saves, you get one or the other. You can still take this combination but the only time you'd really use the 4+ regen is against wounds that have no strength AND allow regen saves, which typically does not happen often enough to warrant the 70 point investment in magic items.