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So my friends and I have been playing 40k for quite some time now and just recently we ran into some issues with LOS with a friend of ours from our LGS. We have always played it a certain way until our friend told us we were wrong...could we please get some clarification on this as well as Rulebook pages if possible? Sorry if that's asking too much but he won't take what were saying seriously unless we provide some pages in the book and I couldn't find it in their respective sections.

*Note: If you could provide pages in the book that would be extremely helpful since our friend won't take what were saying very seriously unless we do.

1) Can you shoot all the way through a piece of terrain you consider forest? You can drive through the forest (rolling for difficult terrain ofcourse) and you can even walk infantry through it. The keywords here is "all the way through." Cosider A to be a squad with Lascannons, F to be the forest and B to be the squad that is being shot at.

A [FFFF] B

The big thing here is that squad A is NOT inside of the forest, but instead are on the opposite side of the forest. He says that the forest realistically would be too dense to be able to shoot all the way through at all if your on one side and the squad your firing at is on the other side. My friends and I always said you could though because of "True line of Sight." We told him that you will for sure get a cover save since we are shooting through a forest but since we did have LOS of our target we should have been able to fire at it none the less.

2) Can you shoot through turrets or do they count as obscuring your vision? For example if a turret is completely obscuring your fire by another turret right next to it? For example if 2x Predators are almost side by side and one is trying to fire at a target on the other side of the other Predator, can it even though the turret weapon cannot draw LOS through the turret of the other Predator? I'm assuming no since true LOS issues but was wondering if there was someting negating that rule since it's a turret of another vehicle of yours.

3) This one is a little tricky. How do hatches firing LOS work? Technically the guy pops out of the hatch and you can even model the hatch with a guy sticking out of it so we were assuming you could draw LOS a little bit above the hatch so another "hatch" from another vehicle wouldn't be blocking LOS. Consider A as the first Rhino, B as the second Rhino and X as the target you are firing at.

A B X

A is trying to fire at X with a guy from the hatch (fire point) of it's Rhino. However B's hatch just so happens to be directly blocking the hatches LOS. If you drew a line directly from the hatch of Rhino A to your target you would not be able to see it because of Rhino B's hatch. Can you still shoot your target X? I think so because the guy actually pops out of the hatch and you can model it with a guy popping out of the hatch so it should technically be a little higher LOS than the actual hatch and another hatch should not stop you from shooting.

4) Can you drive through buildings? What about Ruins? My friends and I have always said you could drive through ruins. You need to roll a difficult terrain but your tank just busts through the building and goes through to the other side. What are your guys thoughts on this and is there any place in the rulebook clarifying this? What about normal buildings? Can you bust through those?

Thanks.

1: If you can see any part of the target that is considered the target, not wargear and fancy upgrades, banners, ect, you can shoot it. TLOS is used as you said, try bringing a cheap laser pointer to the games, it can help a lot when this comes up

2: Again, TLOS is necessary. If one gun is being blocked by another gun from seeing the target, you can't shoot.

3: Just draw LOS from the hatch, not an inch above it, just the hatch. Remember if you can't see, you can't shoot.

4: You must delcare what the terrain is on the board at the start of the game. You may say that ruin walls are just difficult terrain, or dangerous terrain, or impassible, but you have to say what they are. You can drive though it so long as it's not impassible.

You cannot drive through buildings, nor can you tank shock them either. Check the part in the rulebook about ruins/buildings for more info. And yes you can blow up buildings to turn them into ruins.

Forests are area terrain, which grants a cover save even if you can TLoS see through it.

You can only attack buildings that are occupied by the enemy. However if a blast marker scatters over a building, it can cause damage.

1. Yep, you can see through area terrain providing no part of it actually blocks your LoS.
2. All parts of vehicles block LoS. Not all parts are valid targets but all parts block LoS.
3. Open hatches and guys sticking out all block LoS.
4. There are no hard rules for ruins - see "Walls, doors, laders and lateral thinking" on P83. Personally, I usually allow free movement through ruins for all model types but do not allow vehicles to end their models somewhere that they don't fit (because it's too much hassle!) ETA, no driving through intact buildings.

1. yes, area terrain does not block LoS, but instead gives a 4+ cover save.

2. TLoS on this one.

3. yes, the guy can shoot over Rhino B, but the target unit gets a 4+ cover save, but only if they are 50+% hidden.

4. ruins, yes. buildings, no as they are treated like vehicles when shooting at them and you can't drive through models.

What the other posters have said is 100% correct. Here's some pages to reference.

1-Page 16; You must draw LOS to any part of the target model, this can even be through, over or under "...the tangle of terrain..."

2-Same page; You must ba able to see your foe through other fighters. If the turret block LOS, you would have to select a different target.

3-Page 66 under fire points, "Ranges and line of sight are measured from the firs point itself." so not 1" above it or a "model's height" above or from it, you would have to measure from the fire point, from the hatch, itself.

4-Ruins are area terrain, page 82, so you can drive through them like other area terrain. Buildings are not terrain, they use aspects of the vehicle rules, page 78, and in fact when destroyed-wrecked they become difficult and dangerous terrain just like a vehicle, page 79, and if they explode can be replaced with a crater, same page. The newest FAQ says they cannot be rammed;

Q: Can you ram a building? (p79)
A: No. The vehicle will simply stop if it contacts a building.

So if your vehicle stops when it contacts a building if ramming, you certainly can't drive through it.

The above are correct.

Your friend appears to be thinking of the 4th edition and earlier rules for area terrain.

To expand slightly on time wizard's references:

time wizard wrote:1-Page 16; You must draw LOS to any part of the target model, this can even be through, over or under "...the tangle of terrain..."

It's worth noting that in previous editions there was indeed a rule preventing you from firing through area terrain. That was one of the big (and loudly lamented) changes that came with 5th edition. Shooting through area terrain now uses true LOS just like any other terrain, because there is no longer a rule that says to do otherwise.

2-Same page; You must ba able to see your foe through other fighters. If the turret block LOS, you would have to select a different target.

This is also specifically addressed in the Rulebook FAQ.