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The title basically, why aren't they seen so much nowadays?

I can understand that their flimsy nature (12/10/10, Open Topped) is a huge downside, but they have some pretty good upsides too.

A S9 Ap3 Ordnance weapon is nothing to be sniffed at, and throw in the gigantic range and Indirect Fire rules, a battery of 3 will be laughing at any enemy army, spending almost 400pts for 3 (ok, a little expensive) of these blasts a turn will allow any Guard player to pulverise the battlefield, smashing up enemy support units and pounding Ork and 'Nid horde armies. Even with the annoyingly large minimum range of Indirect Fire, you can still fire directly, a worrying prospect for enemy infantry a turn or so a way from charging your gunline.

The minimum range is less of a problem in Apoc, and it is in this that Basilisks become incredible, their massive range allows them to hit most of the battlefield, and the tightly packed enemies in Apoc games are perfect targets.

And so I throw it to the floor, what is the opinion of Dakka on these artillery pieces?

In Apoc a lot of things become viable.
In 40k, they just lose out compared to the other artillery. No ignore cover, no good power vs vehicles. If you want just generic high strength ordnance blasts, you want the manticore instead. I could see basilisks being taken at 110 points maybe, but not 125. It's really a shame for GW, it's the only way they're going to sell their new overpriced basilisk kit.

I personally have never used a Basilisk, but I can tell you why I don't use them.

For the Basilisk it does what it does extremely well - takes down MEQs with no armor save, smashes most light vehicles, IDs anything with T4, bypasses most Tyranid armor - but other stuff can do it just as well most of the time, and is better at their own task.

LRBTs can drop S8 AP3 plates which still instant-kill Marines and break their armor just as well. Medusas can penetrate most vehicles reliably, and deal great damage with Bastion-Breacher shells. The Griffons is a great, cheap, support artillery unit for enemy infantry, and for a little more the colossus gets rid of armor for MEQs and cover. The Manticore can drop 1-3 Strength 10 AP 4 plates a turn - even against armor 3 or 2, that can be a ridiculous about of saves, which are 95% of the time instant death. If you need it to hit vehicles, you can probably get at least one direct hit, and you should penetrate with ordnance.

The Basilisk trumps this if you face a great deal of different builds, races, play styles, or all three of these.

One man's opinion.

The basilisk is nice because it's versatile, but one of it's draw backs is that there are other HS option that do all of the things it can do but usually better or with less fragility. That doesn't mean that basilisks aren't a good unit, just that they just have some pretty stiff competition for the slot they fill.

That being said, I usually run a couple depending on the list, mostly because I'm miserly and haven't ponied up the cash for a Manticore or Medusa.

The thing is, the LRBT has a 72" range. If 72" would not be enough, that is when you NEED artillery.
Tell me, how often are your 72" weapons short of a target? Never? I thought so.

We all like basilisks, but there is no reason to field them on a table that isn't 200" or so across. I mean, a LRBT, hurts infantry just as well, and is just 1 str point behind when hitting vehicles. On the other hand, it has AV14 front and 13 on the side for a mere 25 points more.

The manticore has 120" range. Again, this makes the basilisk inferior to a mix of LRBTs and manticores on all but the largest tables. Myself, I've only once played on a table larger than 50x50", so yeah

WhiteBishop wrote:The title basically, why aren't they seen so much nowadays?

Because you have options now. Back in the day, it was basilisk or nothing as far as artillery is concerned.

I still like the basilisk because, with IF, it compares surprisingly well with the medusa against vehicles (and is much cheaper than the manticore), while it retains the ability to horribly auto-splat marines out of cover, thus either racking up casualties, or controlling your opponent's movement.

Plus, it is a specific bother against certain units. That jetbike seer council hiding behind a wall may be impossible to kill once they start throwing around fortune and turbo-boosting, but at the top of 1, they die just like regular marines.

Mastermind wrote:The thing is, the LRBT has a 72" range. If 72" would not be enough, that is when you NEED artillery.
Tell me, how often are your 72" weapons short of a target? Never? I thought so.

We all like basilisks, but there is no reason to field them on a table that isn't 200" or so across. I mean, a LRBT, hurts infantry just as well, and is just 1 str point behind when hitting vehicles. On the other hand, it has AV14 front and 13 on the side for a mere 25 points more.

The manticore has 120" range. Again, this makes the basilisk inferior to a mix of LRBTs and manticores on all but the largest tables. Myself, I've only once played on a table larger than 50x50", so yeah

2 things.
1 - the Basilisk is cheaper.
2 - it can hit things the Russ can't see.

on 1, you lose the Av 14 in the cheaper price. if you're pinched on points, i could see throwing the Bassy in and acting like it an assault gun.

on 2, not sure how many times that are out of LOS and 36" away. it's a moot point if they are within 36".

It's the generalist of the ordnance family. Some people don't like that because there's usually something better than it at any given role and no matter what you shoot at you're "wasting" some aspect of its ability. I personally like the flexibility.

Also, you've got to remember that, when firing IF, the basilisk hits side armor and situationally ignores cover, making it pretty sweet against vehicles.

Plus, against infantry, the russ never ignores cover...

... and it's the second cheapest artillery piece.

Yep, 'ol Papa Boom simply has alot going for it for a little points. I don't leave home without it.

I use it, and love it:

1) Cheap
2) Versatile (Can kill MEQ, AV14, or T4 Mulit-wound thingies)
3) has Range
4) Draws a lot of attention
5) Can ignore certain Cover situations

In a game where you need troop killing fire power on the cheap... this baby can do it well.

I loved the basilisk when I didn't have a choice and I still love it even though the manticore and Colossus are really tempting. Ah the memories, watching a grey knight squad move into direct fire sight, taking out 14 Ork boyz with one shot, and killing the Tau, fething Tau.

I wouldn't put three in a squadron though, sure you get 3 large blasts but it means that all 3 have to fire on the same target. Two should be enough for any squad and should hopefully be enough for any vehicles you go against.

I don't use Basilisks because for the same price as two of them, I can just about get a Vendetta, Griffon, and an infantry squad. I find that my playing style is more suited to the use of the latter than it is to using Bassies. My decision is also influenced by the return of the Dark Eldar in great numbers. I don't need a Basilisk to kill them. Griffons do it far better (with Accurate Bombardment).

I probably don't see the same types of enemy Army builds that you see though. SW, IG, and DE are the most common enemies here with the occasional Tau or Eldar army. Everything else is rare though there are a few Ork infantry army players.

I like the Basilisk for it's flexibility on targets plus it's indirect fire capability and the Medusae for it's sheer penetrating rounds

JB wrote:

I don't use Basilisks because for the same price as two of them, I can just about get a Vendetta, Griffon, and an infantry squad. I find that my playing style is more suited to the use of the latter than it is to using Bassies. My decision is also influenced by the return of the Dark Eldar in great numbers. I don't need a Basilisk to kill them. Griffons do it far better (with Accurate Bombardment).

I probably don't see the same types of enemy Army builds that you see though. SW, IG, and DE are the most common enemies here with the occasional Tau or Eldar army. Everything else is rare though there are a few Ork infantry army players.

I usually get hit with Orks on their wagons and trukks and with their 2 CC attacks, god I hate Orks.

I run a trio of them in most of my tournament lists, and I love 'em. They can engage anything and everything and everywhere. If I knew exactly who I was fighting maybe I would take another choice but in tournament settings where you don't know who you are fighting basilisk rules supreme.

Another point, I am an old school guard player. By that I mean I don't move, so in order for me to engage objectives across the board I need the basilisk.

Well a battle cannon can hit and kill most things,so unless you have a huge battle field then maybe no Basilisks.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:Well a battle cannon can hit and kill most things,so unless you have a huge battle field then maybe no Basilisks.

A battle cannon also can't fire indirectly and doesn't have S9. We've been through this already, stop comparing apples to oranges.

Sometimes, fluff is an acceptable reason to bring any unit.

Its all a matter of preference. Personally I find myself coming up against horde armies and hitting a trukk or battle wagon plus a few boys makes for a good laugh, not that I could do it with a manticore but the points ment getting a plasma CCS over a melta CCS.

L_Dawg wrote:Sometimes, fluff is an acceptable reason to bring any unit.

+1 to that response sir, i would run 9 basilisks for fluff sake, but then i would be labeled TFG for bringing 9 basilisks of death and hatred lol.

DakkaDakka wrote: