Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Had my first roleplaying experience ever yesterday with Deathwatch and it was a lot of fun. We didn't play with all the rules, however, since it was our intro-game (we did nothing with cohesion, for instance) and our GM didn't really explain Skill Checks just to make things move faster.

I got a chance to look over the rulebook again today and Skill Checks are still confusing me. I really don't get them. It won't be another two weeks until our group can meet again and it is hard to get into contact with my GM since he is pretty busy this week, so I would be very grateful if someone could clear this up for me.

Okay, so, how exactly do Skill Checks work?

I have my Character sheet and it has all the skills listed with four boxes next to each one, but I really don't get it. I have no idea what it means to have the Basic box filled in on my Charm skill. I also don't know what the skill Advances in certain skills do.

For instance; I am playing as a Ultramarines Tactical marine. My Chapter Advances (page 67) list Charm as one of the advances I can get. If I were to select the first Charm, what would I get? Charm is listed twice more with Charm +10 and Charm +20. What do those do exactly?

Also, what are the Trained and +10% and +20% boxes on my Skill Chart? What do they do?

This is really driving me up a wall here. Any help would be appreciated.

Loki77515 wrote:Had my first roleplaying experience ever yesterday with Deathwatch and it was a lot of fun. We didn't play with all the rules, however, since it was our intro-game (we did nothing with cohesion, for instance) and our GM didn't really explain Skill Checks just to make things move faster.

I got a chance to look over the rulebook again today and Skill Checks are still confusing me. I really don't get them. It won't be another two weeks until our group can meet again and it is hard to get into contact with my GM since he is pretty busy this week, so I would be very grateful if someone could clear this up for me.

Okay, so, how exactly do Skill Checks work?

I have my Character sheet and it has all the skills listed with four boxes next to each one, but I really don't get it. I have no idea what it means to have the Basic box filled in on my Charm skill. I also don't know what the skill Advances in certain skills do.

For instance; I am playing as a Ultramarines Tactical marine. My Chapter Advances (page 67) list Charm as one of the advances I can get. If I were to select the first Charm, what would I get? Charm is listed twice more with Charm +10 and Charm +20. What do those do exactly?

Also, what are the Trained and +10% and +20% boxes on my Skill Chart? What do they do?

This is really driving me up a wall here. Any help would be appreciated.

the deathwatch (and rogue trader/dark heresy systems) are older feel/style percentile based game systems where you need to roll under your number in order to succeed, with the degree of success determined by HOW MUCH you roll under. If you look at the skills, they'll have an attribute listed next to each on your character sheet and this is the base number you need to roll under to succeed. Your character as standard will have a bunch of skill that he has actively LEARNED (the ones marked trained) and the ones that he is simply born capable or is able to doing in some fashion from simple normal human interaction (the basic skills). Your character (through spending experience points) can get better at those skills by spending time honing them, gaining the +10 and +20 bonuses to the test. In order to get those bonuses (and therefore mark the box on your sheet) you have to spend the Xp cost listed next to them on your advancement table, gaining the +10 first and then the +20. here's an example:

Jim the space wolf is feeling desperate to escape the tau manta he and the deathwatch team boarded and is now crashing. He finds a captured equipment pile on the tau ship and sees there are several jump packs there. He wants to put one on but realizes he can't do anything with it as jump packs require Pilot: Personal (it is NOT a basic skill and he did not train in it). His squadmate, Bob the templar did spend a bit of time in an assault squad and trained in pilot personal and puts on the jump pack; he needs to roll under his agility (the attribute linked to pilot personal) in order to operate it successfully. The final member of the team, Herb the blood angel, has extensively studied how to use the jump pack (he has trained in it, bought the +10, and bought the +20) and is easily able to escape the wreakage (needing to roll under his agility + 20 due to the training to use the pack correctly). Your GM can modify these test based on the difficulty also so its not always a straight up roll on your attribute either. For instance, jumping out the flaming manta might be easy for Herb the blood angel by himself due to his training but he decides to try and save the space wolf and carry him out with him. The GM considers this and decides that the added weight and strain on the pack is worth a -20 penalty. The blood angel (carrying the wolf) must now roll under Agility (the attribute) +20 (his paid for training level) -20 (the test difficulty) = agility. Finally, basic skills (the ones everyone knows like charm) can be trained in but also can be used by any character to a lesser degree. with basic skills, you need to roll under HALF the linked attribute to succeed. If you train in a basic skill, you roll under the full attribute just like with the examples above.

Hope that helps.

Ok, so I think I get it.

Lets take my Ultramarine Tactical squad guy again (who goes by the name "Cicero").

We've just started our first session and I have 1,000 xp to spend on Cicero. I choose to upgrade Willpower and Fellowship for a total of 400 xp. Then I get Double Team talent for another 200 xp.

And then I go to the Ultramarine Advances chart on page 67 and select the first Charm upgrade for 400 xp (the one without a +10 or +20).

Now, lets take a scenario:

Cicero wants to get inside a bunker that is being guarded by two Imperial troopers. These are low-ranking, care-free fellows and the GM does not think it will be hard to convince them to let me through, so he lets me take a normal Charm test with no penalties to see if they let me past.

If I had NOT selected the Charm upgrade I mentioned above, I would only have the Basic box filled. That means that if I were to try and Charm these guys into letting me by, I would have to roll under half my Fellowship rating (so if I had a Fel of 50, I would need to roll 25 or less).

If I HAD selected the Charm upgrade, that would mean that I would have the Trained box filled, right? Then I would have to roll 50 or less on a Fel test, right?

Loki77515 wrote:Now, lets take a scenario:

Cicero wants to get inside a bunker that is being guarded by two Imperial troopers. These are low-ranking, care-free fellows and the GM does not think it will be hard to convince them to let me through, so he lets me take a normal Charm test with no penalties to see if they let me past.

If I had NOT selected the Charm upgrade I mentioned above, I would only have the Basic box filled. That means that if I were to try and Charm these guys into letting me by, I would have to roll under half my Fellowship rating (so if I had a Fel of 50, I would need to roll 25 or less).

If I HAD selected the Charm upgrade, that would mean that I would have the Trained box filled, right? Then I would have to roll 50 or less on a Fel test, right?

yup, you got it! if you had bought the other charm upgrades, you'd be able to test on your fellowship +10 or +20 depending on if you bought them respectively. also, don't forget (if you happen to be the ultramarine "face" of the party) that the UM solo ability lets you reroll any fellowship tests they want with regard to imperial troops/officials. UM are quite good at inspiring the troops! the other thing that i didn't really mention is that how much you succeed by sometimes matters for skills as well as in combat. the GM may determine that if you just barely pass (by 2 points for instance), you have no degrees of success (but still technically succeed) and therefore the IG let you by but call for backup to the platoon HQ right away. If you had passed by 32 points (3 degrees of success), the Guardsmen are quite smitten and will probably brag to their mates about meeting you. the rules for this kind of stuff in an old school system like deathwatch aren't hard so it depends on your GM how they exactly get applied... but in general, succeeding by more is better!

Okay, a couple more things:

1) My character sheet has the Awareness Skill boxes filled in at both Basic and Trained.

The General Marine Advancement chart for Rank 1 marines on page 60 has Awareness as an upgradeable option.

Why?

The basic character sheet already has the Basic and Trained boxes marked. So why is this Awareness option even on the chart at all?

The Rank 2 chart has Awareness +10 as an upgradeable option, which makes me wonder even more why the Rank 1 table has the aforementioned Awareness upgrade.

2) Why do some skills (like Tracking) have the Trained box filled, but not the Basic box?

3) I have no boxes filled in the Navigation skill. That means I am totally untrained in it and can't perform any Navigation checks at all, right?

However, Rank 1 General Advances has Navigation (Surface) option.

If I were to select Navigation (Surface), would that fill in the Basic box? Also, at Rank 6 I can take Navigation (Surface) +10. If I were to take that would I not fill in the Trained box and just go right ahead and fill in the +10% box?

Thanks a ton, warboss, you've been a huge help.

Loki77515 wrote:Okay, a couple more things:

1) My character sheet has the Awareness Skill boxes filled in at both Basic and Trained.

The General Marine Advancement chart for Rank 1 marines on page 60 has Awareness as an upgradeable option.

Why?

The basic character sheet already has the Basic and Trained boxes marked. So why is this Awareness option even on the chart at all?

The Rank 2 chart has Awareness +10 as an upgradeable option, which makes me wonder even more why the Rank 1 table has the aforementioned Awareness upgrade.

2) Why do some skills (like Tracking) have the Trained box filled, but not the Basic box?

3) I have no boxes filled in the Navigation skill. That means I am totally untrained in it and can't perform any Navigation checks at all, right?

However, Rank 1 General Advances has Navigation (Surface) option.

If I were to select Navigation (Surface), would that fill in the Basic box? Also, at Rank 6 I can take Navigation (Surface) +10. If I were to take that would I not fill in the Trained box and just go right ahead and fill in the +10% box?

Thanks a ton, warboss, you've been a huge help.

1) the offiicial answer is that they may in the future come out with variant marine basic classes that don't have those skills for free starting (they may get others instead) and still want them as choices for the characters if they want to pay for them. that way the original book is "futureproofed" for that scenario.

2) if the basic box is filled, someone can use that without training but at penalty (half the attribute). anyone can "dodge" but you'll do it less effectively without training (1/2 your agility instead of full). if the basic box isn't filled, you can't use the skill at all without training. if you're trained in the holy rites of activation by the adeptus mechanicus (trained in tech use), you can fix the broken rhino on your full intelligence test. if you're not, you can't roll at all.

3) correct for the first part. for the second, if you pay xp for any skill, you get the trained box filled (like the navigation example). you can never fill in a basic box as you already get them all for "free" as part of your starting package. that being said, the character sheet in the book or on the site (i can't remember which or if both) is actually missing some skills checked off but i can't recall which ones at the moment.

no problem, hope that helps.

Loki77515 wrote:1) My character sheet has the Awareness Skill boxes filled in at both Basic and Trained.

The General Marine Advancement chart for Rank 1 marines on page 60 has Awareness as an upgradeable option.

Why?

The basic character sheet already has the Basic and Trained boxes marked. So why is this Awareness option even on the chart at all?

The Rank 2 chart has Awareness +10 as an upgradeable option, which makes me wonder even more why the Rank 1 table has the aforementioned Awareness upgrade.

Because these rules are designed as a base system that can be built upon. What FFG likes to do is create alternate ranks and sub-classes and some of these might not have those Skills/Talents as standard. So, for example, if they were to make a "Deathwatch Window Washer" alternate rank that you took at Rank 1, and it stated that the Window Washer did not start with Awareness or Dodge, but did start with Trade (Window Washer) as a Trained Skill, then the Deathwatch Window Washer Marine would still be able to buy Awareness and Dodge because they're on the table already. If they weren't there he'd never be able to get them.

Loki77515 wrote:2) Why do some skills (like Tracking) have the Trained box filled, but not the Basic box?

Because not all Trained Skills are Basic Skills. Tracking is an Advanced Skill, which means you cannot use it unless you have it (unlike Basic Skills, which you can use even if you don't have it, but at half the Characteristic that it uses, as has already been explained).

To confuse things further, some careers change Advanced Skills into Basic Skills, but don't always make them Trained Basic Skills, meaning you can use an Advance Skill as if it were a Basic Skill without needing to have that skill (so, again, at half the Characteristic value).

To summarise:

1. Basic Skill - a skill you can always use, but if you are not trained in its use you use half the Characteristic value.
2. Trained Basic Skill - same as a Basic Skill, but you can use your full Characteristic value.
3. Advanced Skill - a skill you cannot use unless you have it.

Loki77515 wrote:3) I have no boxes filled in the Navigation skill. That means I am totally untrained in it and can't perform any Navigation checks at all, right?

Navigation is an Advanced Skill, so you are correct. You cannot use it until you become Trained in it by taking it as an Advance by paying EXP for it.

Loki77515 wrote:However, Rank 1 General Advances has Navigation (Surface) option.

If I were to select Navigation (Surface), would that fill in the Basic box?

No. There are a finite group of skills that are basic:

Awareness
Carouse
Charm
Climb
Command
Concealment
Contortionist
Deceive
Dodge
Evaluate
Gamble
Inquiry
Intimidate
Logic
Scrutiny
Search
Silent Move
Swim

Everything else is an Advanced Skill, and should never have the 'basic' box checked unless, due to some special rule, an Advanced Skill has been converted into a Basic Skill (and in these instances the rules will tell you when this happens).

Loki77515 wrote:Also, at Rank 6 I can take Navigation (Surface) +10. If I were to take that would I not fill in the Trained box and just go right ahead and fill in the +10% box?

Nope!

You'll notice that a number of the Skills (and Talents) have prerequisites. You'll notice that in Rank 6 it has Navigation (Surface) +10, but then to the right has Navigation (Surface) as its prerequisite. So you have to take Navigation (Surface) (and fill in the 'Trained' box) before you take Navigation (Surface) +10. Now, there's nothing stopping you from saving up and taking these at the same time. For example, say saved up 800 EXP (the combined cost of Navigation (Surface) and Navigation (Surface) +10), and then decided to buy them in one hit. You'd pay 400 for Navigation (Surface), then cross off the 'Trained' box, and then pay another 400 right away for Navigation (Surface) +10 and cross off the next box.

If you have any other questions just let us know.

Ok, so let me use some examples to see if I have this straight:

1) My Acrobatics skill has no marked boxes. This means I am "untrained." So, if there ever came a time when I needed to pole-vault over a wall, I would not be able to do so since I have no boxes filled in Acrobatics. Right?

But, if I were to be able to buy Acrobatics from some Advancement table, then I would fill in the "Trained" box only, right? That would mean that I would be able to perform Acrobatics checks at my regular Agility modifier, yes?

2) My Tracking skill has the Trained box filled-in. It is also an advanced skill. That means I can only use it in special circumstances when the GM allows, right? I can't just say "I'm going to use my tracking skill to see where that Eldar teleported to." Unlike a Charm check on any non-hostile target which the GM ultimately couldn't prevent me from at least trying (though penalties and bonuses would certainly come into play depending on who I'm talking to, like -50 when talking to a Necron about anything, really).

Loki77515 wrote:1) My Acrobatics skill has no marked boxes. This means I am "untrained." So, if there ever came a time when I needed to pole-vault over a wall, I would not be able to do so since I have no boxes filled in Acrobatics. Right?

But, if I were to be able to buy Acrobatics from some Advancement table, then I would fill in the "Trained" box only, right? That would mean that I would be able to perform Acrobatics checks at my regular Agility modifier, yes?

Correct. You cannot make use the Acrobatics Skill until you have actually taken it as an advance because it is an Advanced Skill.

Loki77515 wrote:2) My Tracking skill has the Trained box filled-in. It is also an advanced skill. That means I can only use it in special circumstances when the GM allows, right? I can't just say "I'm going to use my tracking skill to see where that Eldar teleported to." Unlike a Charm check on any non-hostile target which the GM ultimately couldn't prevent me from at least trying (though penalties and bonuses would certainly come into play depending on who I'm talking to, like -50 when talking to a Necron about anything, really).

The better way to do it would be to say:

"Can I use my tracking skill to see where that Eldar teleported to?"

The GM then decides:

1. If it is possible.
2. What modifier there will be (if any).
3. What happens if you succeed on the test.

One thing I told my players very early on is this:

"A successful test does not equal a successful aim."

What do I mean by that? Well it means that passing your test does not mean you get what you wanted. For example, if someone walks into a weapon storage room and says "I want to use my Search Skill to look for a Lascannon!" and then rolls it, a successful Search Test does not mean that they find a Lascannon, it only means that they successfully conducted a thorough search. Whether or not they actually found a Lascannon is up to the GM.

Continuing that example, the player might only get one Degree of Success, so the GM says "You search the room but are unable to see any obvious signs of a Lascannon." or if they got, say, 4 Degrees of Success "You search the room thoroughly but are unable to locate a Lascannon among the gathered weapons. You do however find [this weapon that the player might like/Lascannon charge packs, indicating a Lascannon was here or might be elsewhere in the building/a vault with a rigged meltabomb attached to it]" or something else to get across the idea that although they passed the test, they did not automatically find what they were looking for but did get something else instead.

Using your example:

"Can I use my tracking skill to see where that Eldar teleported to?"
"Yes you may, although the Eldar are a sneaky and vile xenos race, so this will be a Hard Test, -20."
"Ha! Still made it! On a 1 no less!"
"You are unable to determine where the Eldar teleported to exactly, but you've got a fairly good idea it was somewhere to the south east. How far it went though is a mystery to you, given the strange and blasphemous nature of vile Eldar majiks!"
"Then south east it is!"

In that example the player made the test, but doing so does not mean they instantly and automatically know the location of the Eldar. It is the GM's role to figure out what a successful test actually means.

So as long as everyone is clear that passing a test does not automatically equal getting what you rolled for, then it's all good.

Thanks a lot guys! You have both been very helpful!