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Ive been wanting to start a gaurd army and was thinking about using the wargames factory models http://wargamesfactory.com/wargames-factory-store/shock-troops-sci-fi-greatcoat-troopers i like them alot more then the normal guardsmen models. I was wondering if anyone has used them or if anyone has been given a hard time for not using a GW model. I dont mean in little friendly games i mean for tournaments and Gts.

I think in the higher end tourneys they require models to be at least 50%(?) made up of GW stuff.

I generally don't have a problem with non-GW models as long as they're on proper bases and are to scale.

Also, those models look really cool!

azgrim wrote:Ive been wanting to start a gaurd army and was thinking about using the wargames factory models http://wargamesfactory.com/wargames-factory-store/shock-troops-sci-fi-greatcoat-troopers i like them alot more then the normal guardsmen models. I was wondering if anyone has used them or if anyone has been given a hard time for not using a GW model. I dont mean in little friendly games i mean for tournaments and Gts.

Most likely a no go with tournaments and absolutely a no with GTS. But having said that you are just going to have to ask on a case by case basis as a lot of the larger tournaments are not run by GW. The real problem here is that it can get confusing if your weapons do not look like what they are meant to be.

For instance if one of your wargames factory shock troopers is supposed to have a plasma gun can I tell just by looking at the weapon that it is indeed a plasma gun?

In friendly games most people just won't care but when playing serious tournaments I should be able to expect that I can look at your models and know what they are without asking.

The gun issue can be fixed easily , by just getting a melta a plasma or whatever if the kit doesnt come with a gun that looks different enough. Since most gaurd army will only need maybe 30 meltas or plasma it shouldnt be to much trouble to just bitz out a few guns .

I know a guy that uses these and loves them, but as mentioned above tournaments require GW models.

Not all tournaments require them. Typically, you should look at tourneys on a case by case basis.

Take Adepticon, for example. They're a sanctioned event and, considering that, their policy is rather liberal.

Personally, I'm gtting to the point that I'm beginning to look outside GW for my models. That's something I'd never really done before. I game mostly with my group and, if I see a tourney that doesn't allow non-GW models, either I'll leave them out or not go.

:shrugs:
To each his own.

Eric

I use the same troopers as my basic guardmen
Got GW weapons for the special weapons, so only the basic rifles are "weird"
Ive had zero complaints and only compiments.
then again my entire army is counts-as, with big crab looking tanks as lemans, biomechanical slave looking things as heavy weapon teams, ect. ect.
If you are just playing locally or at your FLGS, then clear it with them and go for it.
I'd say you should be fine as long as you make the special weapons stand out quite a bit (I paint the models shoulderpad color-coded by squad, and hte opposite pad colored by what he carries)

^^ What Magical Memories said.

There is no rule that compels you to use GW models.

If you want to go to a tournament, the TO will advies if they accept modified or non-GW models. Official and sponsored events will not accept non-GW models but lots of tournaments will.

Some players will have a problem with it, but they have no basis in the rules. The main thing is to ensure that your troop types and weapon types are distinctive. For example, all your Plasma Guns look like each other, and are clearly different to your Melta Guns.

It is entirely possible to make a complete IG army from non GW models. It is the best army to do it with, because they are normal humans.

Use 1/48 or 1/35 scale model kits for aircraft and vehicles. Mode them where necessary.

Use alternative 28mm SF, historical or fantasy figures for the infantry. Where necessary, replace their weapons with something distinctive -- there are plenty of weapon options available.

It's fun and rewarding. Good luck!

I use one or two non GW models in my typical game. The Greatcoat troopers that you mentioned are used as inducted Imperial Guard in my Witch Hunters army, and aside from the odd comment on why they appear to be carrying shotguns-and a full blown critic by a spoilt brat-, no-one seems to mind (though that may be that the staff at my local GW just haven't noticed me using them, and I think the other gamers think they're Death Korps models). It is the general policy of GW to not allow models that are based off of other companies models to be used in their stores, but local gaming clubs should be fine. Anyhow in my own case I'm to assume that staffers are going to overlook the odd MalefauX (Freikorps Trapper, great Vindacare Assassin substitute) or Weird War X figure when just about every GW brand model in my army's got at least 70% of their surfaces covered in Greenstuff.^^

Kilkrazy wrote:

There is no rule that compels you to use GW models.

Funny, every gamer who I asked about this subject at my local store seemed to be under the impression that GW were set against you using other companies models in their stores. Are you meaning just tournements? 0.o

I guess it would be more correct to say that 'GW-run events may heve rules against non-GW models, but there's no rules about what you can do at independent stores, evens, or your own basement.'

Would it be a correct assumption that the majority of events in the U.S. are non GW. I think you should use whatever models you like, if it fits your theme or wallet!


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oni wrote:I know a guy that uses these and loves them, but as mentioned above tournaments require GW models.

I think I played against your friend at DakkaDakkaCon this past weekend. He had a great I.G. army with alternative heads on some guard squads and alternative guard squads that looked like "deathworld" troops!

Only GW would not allow these in a tourney. All other tourneys should let you use your imagination and any models you want whatever army you use!

Wyrmalla wrote:I use one or two non GW models in my typical game. The Greatcoat troopers that you mentioned are used as inducted Imperial Guard in my Witch Hunters army, and aside from the odd comment on why they appear to be carrying shotguns-and a full blown critic by a spoilt brat-, no-one seems to mind (though that may be that the staff at my local GW just haven't noticed me using them, and I think the other gamers think they're Death Korps models). It is the general policy of GW to not allow models that are based off of other companies models to be used in their stores, but local gaming clubs should be fine. Anyhow in my own case I'm to assume that staffers are going to overlook the odd MalefauX (Freikorps Trapper, great Vindacare Assassin substitute) or Weird War X figure when just about every GW brand model in my army's got at least 70% of their surfaces covered in Greenstuff.^^

Kilkrazy wrote:

There is no rule that compels you to use GW models.

Funny, every gamer who I asked about this subject at my local store seemed to be under the impression that GW were set against you using other companies models in their stores. Are you meaning just tournements? 0.o

I don't play at shops.

The local GW shop manager has expressed interest in seeing my Guard army get a game in the LGW, however i also use the Greatcoat Troopers from Wargames Factory, so i am quite hesitant about doing that in store..

I also don't game too often in stores, but the LGS in my hometown i have talked to their owner, and he is all about seeing well converted, concise armies, even if they are not "strictly" GW models.

I would be a bit surprised if a GW shop manager allowed people to use non-GW armies in his shop. That is the company rule, after all.

It doesn't apply in non-GW settings.

Although US tournaments may not be GW events I have seen reference to "prize support" being given by GW.

One would assume that they do this under certain conditions to the organisers, presumably one being constraints on what models to use?

You are probably correct, however we would need to see the info pack for the tournament.

Using non-GW models is going to limit how widely you can use them. You'll be less limited in the US than in the UK, and far less limited if you primarily game in smaller events.

Hard Boys, IIRC, technically requires the use of GW models. Several bigger GTs also require it, especially if they get prize support from GW.

in my local club tournos accept any kind of miniatures as long as they clearly show what they are and what they are armed with.

Kilkrazy wrote:
Use 1/48 or 1/35 scale model kits for aircraft and vehicles. Mode them where necessary.

A note on that...1/48 is closest to being a match for the scale of GW/28mm stuff, WWII tanks make good Russ alternates. The 1/35 modern tanks make great super heavies as it is nearly double the scale of GW/28mm minis.

In case your wondering 28mm falls between1/48 and 1/60 in real model scale. Its not an exact cross over, but it falls somewhere between those. It is listed in such a vague way since there is both 28mm and 28mm "heroic" aka GW.

Id say use the minis you like. The ones youve exampled are very cool. The only real flak you should get is from most tournies and GW purists. Also, dont even try to use them at a GW store.

See article here for comparative model kit sizes in GW, 1/48 and 1/35 scale.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Scale_Model_Kits_for_40K#Historical_vs_40K_Vehicle_Comparison

The only thing that would give me pause about using the Greatcoats (and yes, I own some) for anything other than storm troopers or veterans is the lack of heavy weapon squads and the command sprue. If they actually ever release those, then I could see an entire army released easy. My other side complaint about them is that the 'special' weapons are all kind of generic, and a little on the lame side. I do like the shotguns though.

I use those exact models as my veterans, nobody has given me problems so far, they are extremly easy to convert as well. guardsmen arms fit perfectly on them, scout arms work for shotguns, bolt guns, bolt pistols and power weapons, and with melta/plasma guns cut off the trigger then take a greatcoat flamer/gl and cut the gun away from the hand and replace it with the melta/plasma gun.

daedalus wrote:The only thing that would give me pause about using the Greatcoats (and yes, I own some) for anything other than storm troopers or veterans is the lack of heavy weapon squads and the command sprue. If they actually ever release those, then I could see an entire army released easy. My other side complaint about them is that the 'special' weapons are all kind of generic, and a little on the lame side. I do like the shotguns though.

Yes, that is the problem when a company doesn't release command figures.

TBH there are enough weapon options on the market to make your own HW teams from normal troops. Of course it is nice to have some variant poses, and avoid the hassle.

If more tournaments and stores allowed non-GW figures at their events, this would create more competition for GW which is a good thing.

The problem will be finding the great coat figures. With the changes at Wargames factory, it's quite chancey on getting them in the future, and you won't be finding them anywere right now.

no problem, but as long as it not a tissue box

I think it's ok to use a few non-GW models just for something different.

But maybe have a GW version to use if someone doesn't agree.

As long as you had the right bases, and tanks/guns looked similar enough, sure! I'd love to play against you!

I use several non GW miniature companies models in my 40k armies.

My guard uses Pig Iron Productions Ironside tank hulls for my Leman Russes (scratchbuilt turrets large enough to feasibly hold the RBFG - battlecannon), Viperwing bikes from VOID (iKore/Scotia Grendel) for my Rough riders, FAV (dune-buggies) from both ikore and Old Crow for my Sentinels (I don't like the chicken walkers for my guard) alongside a variety of infantry models from Copplestone, Foundry, Wargames Factory and Heresy.

I don't have any issues with playing in GW stores. The local one isn't large enough to play in and the next closest is 160km away. I haven't played in ANY stores in over 10 years. GW don't run tournaments here (and they were crap at it when they did) and I've not received any flak from TOs about my models at any I've played in (some from a few one-eyed 'GW is mother, GW is father, drink the kool-aid' fanboys though).