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I'm just curious, do people allow running to occur in the movement phase or prefer it done in the shooting phase. my reason for asking ifs if there are any benefits for the person doing it in movement over waiting to the shooting.

If so what are the negatives for allowing someone to do this?

It's done in the shooting phase. There's no reason why anyone should want to do it in the movement phase, and no reason to allow it.

There is a perfectly valid reason to want to do it in the movement phase. I play Tyranids. Games already take obnoxiously long because of the number of models on the table, frequently well over a hundred. Nobody has ever, EVER given me any grief about saving the sanity of both of us by doing movement and running at the same time. Hormagaunts can't even shoot at all! They're literally not going to ever not run, and when I've got a mob of 30 of them it really is a time saver.

Again nobody has ever had a problem with me doing this, and in fact have only ever complained if I don't.

Is it technically against the rules? Yeah, probably, but if both sides agree who cares?

whilst there is no legal way for people to do running in the movement phase the advantage is time. Walking horde armies are going to run pretty much every turn and doing it in the movement phase has advantages for the opponent (not the one doing the running). By running in the movement phase you take about half the time to move a model as running in the shooting phase if you've 120 Ork Boyz to move that is a significant difference. With Orks running in the movement phase precludes you from "Waaaggh!"ing and in all cases it reduces your tactical flexibility as you've made the decision earlier.

However be careful with movement creep as many poeple like to gain 1-2" each move though again this is reduced by 1 movement (by gaining 1-2" in each phase they instead would only gain 1-2" total).

However as Sir Pseudonymous has correctly pointed out there is no allowance in the rules for players to do this.

No rules allowance, but i have no issue with people doing it.

It gives a *slight* technical advantage to the person running, as they know exactly how far they can move and will know, with certainty, if they can get models back into cover or not. If you are forced to move, then run, you may have to gamble getting a high enough "run".

You'd probably get caned for it at tournaments (perhaps not), but in casual play I think it speeds up the game immensely.

The only reason i've seen it disallowed during a casual game, is because of DOOM, because the unit's placement in the shooting phase is important for that model's special rules.

It's not at all legal and only really allowed on a case by case basis. I don't allow it on vital moves, but I usually allow it the first turn or two.

It changes how you will move in a lot of cases to know how far your total distance is before moving. If a unit is close to assaulting in one direction but closer to cover in another your rolling beforehand tells you if you need to seek the cover or go for the assault.

I do not allow it.

SumYungGui wrote:There is a perfectly valid reason to want to do it in the movement phase. I play Tyranids. Games already take obnoxiously long because of the number of models on the table, frequently well over a hundred. Nobody has ever, EVER given me any grief about saving the sanity of both of us by doing movement and running at the same time. Hormagaunts can't even shoot at all! They're literally not going to ever not run, and when I've got a mob of 30 of them it really is a time saver.

Again nobody has ever had a problem with me doing this, and in fact have only ever complained if I don't.

Is it technically against the rules? Yeah, probably, but if both sides agree who cares?

Me too, with my Tyranids.

I say what I am going to do before I start, of course, and check it is okay.

Given that running replaces shooting, the only player who might be detrimentally affected is yourself, if you move a unit then run it on, before trying to shoot with a different unit from a now obscured position behind.

It changes how you will move in a lot of cases to know how far your total distance is before moving. If a unit is close to assaulting in one direction but closer to cover in another your rolling beforehand tells you if you need to seek the cover or go for the assault.

Easily resolved have them declare the direction before they roll the dice. I always do. They are then bound to move at least 6" in that direct and the rest they can move/not move or move in a different direction as they choose.

I generally don't like it.
I don't do it, and I don't like my opponents to do it.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:It changes how you will move in a lot of cases to know how far your total distance is before moving. If a unit is close to assaulting in one direction but closer to cover in another your rolling beforehand tells you if you need to seek the cover or go for the assault.

I do not allow it.

This right here. Not to mention it changes up the shooting lanes a lot. I would never allow an opponent to run in the movement phase even in a casual game.

Strictly speaking, it is against the rules.

But, it does save a ton of time, especially for horde armies. So, I almost always allow it (and do it myself plenty of the time).

If you're really worried about the tactical advantages, have the person running do a standard movement on the lead model and pretend that all the other models have moved up with him.

Keep in mind that this is bending the rules, so if you're opponent doesn't like it, don't get upset or argue about it. There are plenty of valid reasons why this shortcut shouldn't be done.

nid players do this all the time, and I generally dont' care for it. As for speeding up the game, that's bunk. If you run in the shooting phase (1 roll) your turn still takes less time than if you shot which is potentially 3 rolls, so I don't buy the whole saves time argument, but I could easily say how it gives you a slight but still very obvious tractical advantage.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:It changes how you will move in a lot of cases to know how far your total distance is before moving. If a unit is close to assaulting in one direction but closer to cover in another your rolling beforehand tells you if you need to seek the cover or go for the assault.

As above; it functionally gives the Running player foreknowledge, and allows them to adjust their other Move phase moves based on seeing how their Run rolls went. This can be a big deal, when a given unit craps out with a 1 when trying to get to an objective, and the player can then send a second unit to grab that objective knowing that the Run roll was crap.

I only allow it in the first turn or two, for speed of play.

I don't allow it, and I'm usually one of the players with a large number of models. I understand the reason this is prevalent.

If it's the guy who brings 100 orks or gaunts to a game complaining, I have no sympathy. No one forces you to play that army.

As for speeding up the game, that's bunk. If you run in the shooting phase (1 roll) your turn still takes less time than if you shot which is potentially 3 rolls, so I don't buy the whole saves time argument

Try it for yourself. Get out 100 models and roll 1 dice move them that far plus 6". Then try moving them 6" rolling the dice and moving them again, it takes about double the time. Rolling the dice doesn't really take the time. picking up 100 models measuring and placing them does...

There are situations where it won't make any difference, but just as many or more situations where performing the run move during the movement phase changes line of sight or otherwise makes a difference.

I'm patient. I'm willing to wait while my opponent moves his horde correctly.

It is a very bad habit to get into or allow.

I play Tyranids, the army you choose is no excuse.

Mannahnin wrote:As above; it functionally gives the Running player foreknowledge, and allows them to adjust their other Move phase moves based on seeing how their Run rolls went. This can be a big deal, when a given unit craps out with a 1 when trying to get to an objective, and the player can then send a second unit to grab that objective knowing that the Run roll was crap.

I only allow it in the first turn or two, for speed of play.

i conditionally allow it unless i see it being possibly abused (like the last turn dash to contest an objective decided AFTER they roll when they know they can actually make it). another "abuse" is when someone tries to scale a piece of terrain by adding the movement and run values to make it to the next level in a structure. (i.e they roll a 2 for their difficult terrain to climb a 5" tall ruin and then try to add in their 4" run when if they did it separately they wouldn't make it to the next floor).

When this does happen, it's normally someone saying "Okay I'm going to move and run that unit into cover there, that cool?" and the other making the call based on how they feel about it all, not legal at all unless tmir is taken into account.

FlingitNow wrote:Then try moving them 6" rolling the dice and moving them again, it takes about double the time.

For some reason this is immensely funny to me.

FlingitNow wrote:

As for speeding up the game, that's bunk. If you run in the shooting phase (1 roll) your turn still takes less time than if you shot which is potentially 3 rolls, so I don't buy the whole saves time argument

Try it for yourself. Get out 100 models and roll 1 dice move them that far plus 6". Then try moving them 6" rolling the dice and moving them again, it takes about double the time. Rolling the dice doesn't really take the time. picking up 100 models measuring and placing them does...

It will save you time, but not compared to shooting. First you move your 100 models, then you can run your models in less time than it takes for me to resolve my shots; you roll your one die, move your 100 models. I have to roll twice, let you roll, remove casaulties. In comparison I think shooting takes about the same amount of time- maybe a little more or less depending on LOS checking etc... So in the end game play is just as long as if we were two shooty armies.

It sounds like you could use it to avoid your troops giving cover saves from your own weapons, as they can run out of the way. Only really matters with IG I suppose, don't know if any other army has a dictated order of action in the shooting phase.

I think it is ok to let it slide if you really don't care but it is not something I would like myself.

It will save you time, but not compared to shooting. First you move your 100 models, then you can run your models in less time than it takes for me to resolve my shots; you roll your one die, move your 100 models. I have to roll twice, let you roll, remove casaulties. In comparison I think shooting takes about the same amount of time- maybe a little more or less depending on LOS checking etc... So in the end game play is just as long as if we were two shooty armies.

? What? The time comparison is between running in the movement phase (allowing you to move each model once) or running in the shooting phase (thus measuring and moving each model twice). In neither circumstance do any of the models shoot. They are saving time by running in the movement phase not saving time by running instead of shooting.

MisterMoon wrote: First you move your 100 models, then you can run your models in less time than it takes for me to resolve my shots; you roll your one die, move your 100 models. I have to roll twice, let you roll, remove casaulties. In comparison I think shooting takes about the same amount of time- maybe a little more or less depending on LOS checking etc... So in the end game play is just as long as if we were two shooty armies.

What???
It takes a lot longer to move 100 models 1" properly than fire 100 shots, but by the same token I tking it would be faster to move 10 models than 10 shots. But the point is moving and running against moving then running.
Very different from moving and running against shooting!

Mannahnin wrote:As above; it functionally gives the Running player foreknowledge, and allows them to adjust their other Move phase moves based on seeing how their Run rolls went. This can be a big deal, when a given unit craps out with a 1 when trying to get to an objective, and the player can then send a second unit to grab that objective knowing that the Run roll was crap.

And if the running player is going second, it's handing him a bunch of extra movement to use before he gets shot at...

Nope, can't say I'm a fan of the idea... and I play Orks.

it's says in the rules that running is part of the shooting phase. even though a model may not have a ballistic weapon, the shooting phase does not begin until movement is completed.

You wanna know the negatives of combining these steps? confusing an opponent, for one. Also, there may be situations where things happen during movement or shooting phases that would affect the run.

In other words, play the game by the rules. streamlining them will only lead to arguments...