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Heres a list that lets you put scary amounts of nids on the board wherever you want!
First up are the HQ choices.
Swarmlord, with 3 tyrant guard w/ lash whips. This guy is expensive, but a lynchpin. So he gets 3 guards, and will hopefully live to see turn 3. +1 to reserves.
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Lash whip/Boneseord, TL Devourers, Hive commander and Old Adversary. Also expensive. But is a deepstriking CC monster. +1 to reserves.
These 2 guys cost 770 points total, but are close combat nightmares that HAVE to be dealt with. Also, a 2+ on turn 2 for all of the below coming in is very nice.

Elites only take up 2 slots.
3 Hive guard - because they're just that good. These guys are the only non reserved units, along with swarmlord and Hgaunts.
Doom of malantai- In a mycetic spore, its pretty much impossible for him to not make his points back AND make a huge mess of target priority.

Troops, because scoring objectives wins 2/3 of the games you'll play.
20 Termagants with devourers in a mycetic spore. - With 18" range on the gun and 12" maximum scatter, looks like iIm putting 60 s4 shots wherever I want.
20 Termagants with devourers in a mycetic spore. -Twice, because its really fun and effective to play and a nightmare to deal with.
Tervigon , Toxin sacs, adrenal glands - This guy outflanks from the Hive commander rule. Its pretty rude to put scoring units anywhere you want, and hey, its a troop choice MC.
29 Hormagaunts - would have been 30, but I took one out to pay for ST for broodlords. Worth it, I think. Plaino gaunts, hoping to get in on some Old adversary action. Footsloggin, but fast.
20 Genestealers with Toxin sacs, Broodlord with scytal and acid blood - infiltrate in if I go first, outflank if not. Aura of despair to aid the doom. Rerolling wounds that rend.
20 Genestealers with Toxin sacs, Broodlord with scytal and acid blood - did I mention that acid blood will make it almost impossible to lose a combat? Also, walker insurance.

Heavy Support is a Trygon Prime with adrenals.
Synapse helps, but what I want here is the 12 s5 shots when I pop up behind a tank. Avg rear armor 10, avg 2 glances and 2 pens. Works every time, and afterwards, there is still a trygon there.

Fast attack is 2 groups of 3 spore mines. Pretty useless, unless its Dawn of war or spearhead deployment. If you can't deploy because of a 30 point spore mine squad, thats frustrating.
If its spearhead, one of the best laughs you'll ever have is the look on their face. DoW means no deployment within 12" of those mines- make them choose a bad spot.
Alternatively, I put them in the middle so they deploy to a side for easy genestealer kills. Spore mines don't count as KPs, so hey, eat that.


So what do you think? If I lose the roll to go first, everything goes into reserve. it comes out at the start of turn 2 on a roll of anything but a 1. Nothing can really be left alone or ignored or killed easily because of the way they come down. Outflankers get helped by swarmlord, and there are enough to make sure anything 15" from the edges dies horribly. The center doesnt look much better, because thats where the Hgaunts are coming up, followed by hive guard and the swarmlord.

Interesting combination, really.

We've already discussed about the Spore Mine deployment denial, so i won't go over that too much - BUT! (yes, you knew the "but" would show up!)
- I can't seem to find anything about deployment denial in Spearhead on the pages... All i'm getting is 12" away from centre.

You really need more Tervigons - it's an awesome unit. And, YES, i know how you interpret the FnP rules, but... Man... You're just shooting yourself in the foot over it :/

Swarmlord is awesome. I love him! Pretty slow, but... Succed in getting into assault, and they're in for the hurtin'!

Haven't experimented with Dev-gaunts. Whats your experience with them so far? Whats the strategy? And... Are they worth anything against MEQ's 3+'es?

As for the Hormagaunts, i'd say: replace 'em... You'd be MUCH, MUCH more pleased with Garg's. I'm sure you know the math, but in case you don't, you simply reroll everything (everything!) against S4 and lower (if you pump them up! And, yeah, the 6 to-hit auto-wounds...
They really haven't disappointed me yet... Plus; They'd work great alongside your other DS'ing stuff too! At least consider 'em!

Gene's - well, YES! And with DoW deployment...

However, in a 3k game, are you sure you've brought enough AV? One or two too many rounds of lucky shots, and you're down to very little AV support :s
- You really need better Armor 14 solutions, besides the one Trygon!

I'd personally get rid of one of the Tyrant Guards for the SwL... They're too pricy imo, and the points would fit better elsewhere - same with the Prime...

-In Spearhead, you are limited to a 3 foot by 2 foot quarter of the table, with a quarter circle 12" radius taken out of the center chunk to deploy your forces into. If that area is filled with spore mines, especially the way back, it forces them to deploy troops close to me, with tanks maybe being placed next to the mines for cheesy explosion. So in a way I can even kind of determine where their tanks go, and the facing.

-Tervigons are nice, but the list doesn't use more than one because I don't feel it needs it, and I want to keep the other 5 troop choices.

-Swarmlord and 3 guard is expensive, but is a lot of T6 wounds to chew through, especially with Leech Essence. The lash whips are there to make life really miserable for as many of the assaulters as possible. Goes up the center with spawned gaunt/ hormagaunt cover because the sides are well covered.

-Strategy is that there are 20 Gants with devourers in each unit. Its a sizable unit, and is going to require some killing.
The spore always comes down where I want it to, because I put it about 3 inches away from the enemy unit I wish to come down and shoot. Even if I roll two sixes and go 12" straight backwards, I'm still able to deploy the gaunts 2" back closer. so that they always end up 16-18" away from the enemy, with a 18" gun. 60 shots, hit on 4+. 30 hits. Wound on a 4+ against T4. ~15 wounds. 3 dead terminators, 5 dead marines, ten dead guardsmen. Two pods full mean that I can double that.

-I've done the math, actually. It comes up like this:
30 gargs deepstrike in and hopefully fire 30 fleshborers. Half will hit on a 4+, 7.5 wounds against T4. No assault.
If they instead fly across the board, they won't make it to the enemy for a first turn assault, so are in the same boat as Hormogaunts there. Lets say 10 die for whatever reason, and then get the charge off.
20 Hormogaunts (Naked, costing 120 pts.) get 60 attacks on the charge. I will assume that the enemy has WS1 due to 2 Tyrants. Usually the enemy gets pretty feeble. So 3+s to hit, 40 hits. Talons turn 10 misses into 7 more hits. 47 hits total, 16 wounds on a 5+.
20 Gargoyles (Juiced to the maximun with TS/AG and costing 160 pts) get 40 attacks on the charge. Again assuming WS3 versus WS1, I'm needing 3s to hit, so 27 (lets even call it 28 because of luck for easy math) hits. 7 Wounds from rolling 6s. Wounding on a 4+ due to toxin sacs, and rerolling misses on the first round since I'll be S4, thats 21 more wounds. Plus the 7 from rolling 6s (like a boss) thats... 28 wounds! Pretty awesome.
12 more wounds than the Hormogaunts for 40 points. Almost doubling the amount of wounds, and neither of those assume the swarmlord giving them preferred enemy.
Assuming that, Lets say I gave Hormogaunts Toxin sacs to make them cost the same amount of points. And Lets rework the math for assuming that Swarmlord gives the unit rerolls to hit. (Actually rerolling everything)
Hgaunts get their 60 attacks, getting 40 hits on 3+ and doubling the amount back from just scything talons from 7 to 14. 54 hits, half will wound on a 4+ for 27 wounds.
Gargs get 40 attacks, hit on 3+ for 27 hits, plus 7 for 6s, and then reroll 13 misses into 4 more hits. 2 more auto wounds from 6s. 40 rolls to wound on a 4+, 20 wound, 10 more for rerolls due to furious charge. 30 wounds.

Wait a minute, 27 wounds for the Homogaunts and 30 wounds for the Gargoyles? Thats only off by 3, not almost double! Now, I find it really hard to justify spending 40 bucks a box for 12 gargs, $120 total for getting 3 boxes so i can get 30 (Hotdog:Hotdog Bun ratio all over again).
For three wounds?
Gargoyles can kiss the fattest part of my ass. Hell will freeze over before I buy that. Maybe if they had wings that I could magnetize on the Gaunts and call it either way, I'd sped the $50 for that. Until then, paying 40 dollars a wound for games I use this list is never going to happen.
Consider that.

-Genestealers are just great. I've got 90 and counting, and when they get the preferred enemy, they are just brutally nasty with the amount of rends a group of 20 put out.

-If AV looks to be a problem, I can drop half of each genestealer squad (170 pts) and trade it for 2 harpies with Heavy Venom Cannons. I'd have to consolidate on the spore mines. That should just about do it for any AV, I think.

-I want the Swarmlord to be alive for a loooong time. If they are going to put everything they have into killing it, which is wise, I want it to be obscenely durable. I've considered buying another 3 just regular guard for 180 points for the tyrant with wings, and have them start out separate. This second squad will walk in front of the first one, being a T6 screen and in the event that the Swarmlords group all dies, he then joins the other group. Effectively giving him 6 guard. How do you kill that?

Prime needs to be there because of the 6 S5 shots versus 12. 6 is averagely 1 glance and 1 pen. 12 is 2 each, and so 66% likely to destroy the tank when it comes up from deepstrike instead of the 33% chance a regular Trygon has.

Billinator wrote:Haven't experimented with Dev-gaunts. Whats your experience with them so far? Whats the strategy? And... Are they worth anything against MEQ's 3+'es?

Yes, I can tell you of a game I played Vs. DA when I dropped a brood like that close to a command squad. The spore did not have its chance to shoot because the 60 devourer shots completely wiped it out, also think about L=-1 for leadership tests when shooting non-courageous, regular infantry. An additional use I have for the spore is Helping Vs. CC counter-attacks, leaving it at the front, first for Lash whipping foe's initiative, second for 3 MC S6 attacks that WILL take somebody out (I know, WS 2, but 4+ to hit is still good, and old adversaries could pump that up nicely)

Doomthumbs wrote:I've considered buying another 3 just regular guard for 180 points for the tyrant with wings, and have them start out separate.

Can that be done? What FOC option would they occupy? (their entry in the codex looks like that of a dedicated transport rather than a regular unit)
Can I also drop an empty spore, like empty drop pods tactics I have read about?

You will be needing more Hive Guard as the amount of mech you could get in 3,000 point armies would be unreal so you will need more ranged units to deal with them. The Doom is just a gimmick unit, wrong end of a meltagun and it's dead.

Tervigons come in pairs like all mosntrous creatures or else your opponent will target priority and just slay it. It needs catalyst too.

You don't need 20 Genestealers in a squad.

Hive Tyrant with wings desperately needs Gargoyles.

I think this list could be loads better but instead spent points on too many upgrades.

@Doom
Meh.
I really think you should give the Gargs more credit, buddy. Fact is that i'm crappy with math, but... I'm getting slightly different results here!

I get roughly 28 wounds, which converts into 9 wounds on MEQ's, so that's almost the same result.
- However, lucky shots on the Fleshborers might land us a wound or two on the squad.
- Furthermore, their wings makes it alot easier to get them around the table, and strike where it's needed.
- With Parasite in the squad, their assault improoves alot.
- Hence Para' in the squad, there's the chance to spawn rippers.
- Lastly, the Gargs provide a great cover for the rest of the army, and with their speed hardly ever gets into serious rapid fire. FnP is a must aswell, at it prevents them from getting' frag'ed easily.

Anyways, Doom' - i really would suggest adding more AV-support to the list. In a 3k game, you're bound to run into a heavy amount of armor - perhaps even more than one Land Raider.

The Troops alone are most likely to dominate the board. But fielding that many anti-inf units is a big overkill in my book.
- The dual-pods with Dev-gaunts can quickly wipe a unit.
- Both Genestealers can quickly wipe a squad.
- The Hormagaunts can most likely add in another wiped squad.

However, if they decide to focus yor HG's, your ranged Anti-Transport capability is pretty much history. After that, you might end up in a Benny Hill scenario against the Transports + stuffing.
The way i see it, you can't go wrong with more HG's. Everytime you cripple a Transport, you prevent them from GTFO'ing. Neither do you go wrong with a decent amount of Tervigons, as they buff your survivability. Dead creatures don't do you much good anyways. More Trygons also improoves your overall abilities against most, as they're not BOUND to attack vehicles. They just perform against both!
OTOH, your whole troop section doesn't. They can wipe infantry. But if the opponent see's this, and use it to their advantage, your masses will bounce their heads into alot of armor.

Anyways... I really need to try out the Dev-gaunts... Sounds like serious business wherever you drop them down. And i just love filling my little paws with dice!

@ Bill - Well, the fact is you admittedly are bad at math, and I'm sure of mine.

2 harpies with HVC isn't enough ranged support? They basically put a S9 pie plate wherever they want.

Here is a list of stuff that comes down turn 2 and has a shot to do some damage against AV10. I list it as the most common rear armor value, and my list is designed to deepstrike/ show up where I want it to.
-3 Spore pods with 6 S6 attacks at BS5. Avg 2 hits, needing a 4+ to at least glance. Why, thats at least one glance/pen average!
-2 groups of 60 S4 shots. 30 hits, 5 glances on a 6. It isn't really getting lucky, just happens.
-Trygon Prime has 12 S5 shots. Thats 2 glances and pens against AV10. And then if its just immobilized...
-Hive Tyrant with Twin Linked S6 shooting will also most likely stun/destroy another tank.
-2 Harpies with Twin Linked S9 Large Blasts, and then a S5 Large blast. Grind, grind,grind.

So what is that? Nine? Nine not only possible but probable dead/stunned AV10 targets on turn two, followed by MC and Genestealer assaults on turn 3?
Six MCs, half of them able to move 12", do something horrible, then assault is also not something to laugh at.
60 Genestealer attacks is going to cause some rending. Add to this that almost everything will have Old Adversary for at least one round - the round everything is stunned/destroyed.

So with the

@Doom

- Harpies wasn't taken into account. My bad. But it's still pricy for a T5-unit.

- using spores against rear-armor is nice. But it's not heavily reliable, if you scatter way off.
- Dev-gaunts seems very reliable, indeed. Not going to argue on that.
- Trygon Prime, either Deep Struck or on foot draws alot of attention. And you only got one.
- Hive Tyrant is awesome. Smart play can pretty much keep it alive.
- Harpies. Well, as stated above - vulnerable to ID.

Basically, what i'm saying is this: what if more than one of the above is taken into consideration..?
At 3k, we're talking about alot of ML's and other hard-hitting stuff.
- Are you ABSOLUTELY certain, that you're fully able to prevent those from crippling your AV before you meet up with your mighty DoomThumbs-hammer?

Considering that I'm deepstriking everything, putting it where I want, and doing it on a 2+ to come in,

Yeah, absolutely. MLs are great, but like you said, my list destroys infantry. Usually MLs get carried by those. And if it also takes out 9 tanks when stuff comes in, thats a lot of infantry to munch. The strategy of keep away with stuff in transports will suffer because these units will be coming towards me to assist other units that are just being hosed down.


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Billinator wrote:
- Harpies wasn't taken into account. My bad. But it's still pricy for a T5-unit.
- using spores against rear-armor is nice. But it's not heavily reliable, if you scatter way off.
- Dev-gaunts seems very reliable, indeed. Not going to argue on that.
- Trygon Prime, either Deep Struck or on foot draws alot of attention. And you only got one.
- Hive Tyrant is awesome. Smart play can pretty much keep it alive.
- Harpies. Well, as stated above - vulnerable to ID.

Basically, what i'm saying is this: what if more than one of the above is taken into consideration..?

Take point number 1, 3, and 5. Those are the 3 I want taken into consideration. What happens? Looks like a gg.

HVC are small blast and you won't get rear armour when it's against the board edge. Also the hive tyrant needs to be on the table to work and the swarmlord so you need both of these turn 1 which could be taking fire.

Don't get me wrong, Doom. I can see it working. It's got a great potential for swarming the whole board in just a few turns, greatly limiting your opponents movement. My concern is just scenario's where everything judt didn't work out as planned (crazy scatters for instance).

Spores makes for great path-blocking units aswell as DS-transport busters from arrival.
Dev-gaunts serves both as a unit-wiper, and as a rear-armor-stabber. But as soon as you're getting forced into shooting against the vehicle, rather than it's stuffing, they may get hammered themselves (and MEQs hardly take any wounds against exploded vehicles!).
Harpies is still a much sceptic piece in my book. Not having tried them, i can't fully speak my case. But OTOH, playing the MEQs myself, i'd get rid of them with Las-fire.

I think it's great to flood the board. But i do stand my grund, when i say that it's abit overkill to bring that many.
The Doom can go both way. He's either cannon-fodder from arrival, or getting into assault and away from ID'ing.

Overall, it's much inventive with your choices. I just feel that some points could be better spent elsewhere, and overall greatly support the army as a whole - without having you suffer too much either.
- But that's just me, i guess..?


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mercer wrote:HVC are small blast and you won't get rear armour when it's against the board edge. Also the hive tyrant needs to be on the table to work and the swarmlord so you need both of these turn 1 which could be taking fire.

Are you certain HT and SwL needs to be on the board?
- I recall checking up on this in the codex. Nothing indicated, that they were forced to be on the board for the +2 to reserves to work.

Eh, gonna playtest it later against blood angels that know its coming.

Pics and batrep to come.

I don't see the point of adrenal glands on a str 6 init 1 model.

Have to agree on gargoyles, GW needs to either drop the price or bring back their special close combat weapon.

Edit: Forgot they can grant the benefits of adrenal glands to termagaunts, also the whole land raider thing.

Doomthumbs wrote:Eh, gonna playtest it later against blood angels that know its coming.

Pics and batrep to come.

Sounds good! +1 if pm'ed, when it's up!

Requia wrote:I don't see the point of adrenal glands on a str 6 init 1 model.

Have to agree on gargoyles, GW needs to either drop the price or bring back their special close combat weapon.

Edit: Forgot they can grant the benefits of adrenal glands to termagaunts, also the whole land raider thing.

What!? Gargoyles are 6 points a model how cheap you want them? If you read the codex you'd see they have the blinding venom special rule.

Check the FAQ on the tyrant and swarmlord reserve thing, pretty sure tyrant needs to be on the board

Price mean $$$, not points. The fourth edition versions were worth 12 points, now they're worth 6, which is great for gameplay, but they still cost a 12 point model in $$$.

The price of the boxset was/is fine until the vat went up. How cheap you expecting them to be?

Not sure what you mean 12 points price either…

Is he talking about the old blister-boxes with two gargs in them?

mercer wrote:The price of the boxset was/is fine until the vat went up. How cheap you expecting them to be?

Not sure what you mean 12 points price either…

I mean that in 4th the gargoyles cost 12 points/model.

Is he talking about the old blister-boxes with two gargs in them?

I'm talking about the 10 pack for 35$, which means they run at about 50 cents a point (44 if you have the biomorphs) compared to the 33 (or less with mods) that most models run. In 4th, when gargoyles were substantially more powerful that was fine, now the box is worth more like 20$.

@Requia
Well, i don't get your logic. The current gargs are awesome as they are. With the right list, you're in your opponents face on turn 2.
- Prior gargs had Bio-plasma, yeah... But they died just as fast as the 6 point models. You can field twice the amont now, which gives you alot more bodies/wounds...

FFS, it has nothing to do with how awesome gargoyles are, it has everything to do with paying 35$ for a 20$ box.

Requia wrote:

mercer wrote:The price of the boxset was/is fine until the vat went up. How cheap you expecting them to be?

Not sure what you mean 12 points price either…

I mean that in 4th the gargoyles cost 12 points/model.

Yeah I know, but we're playing 5th now and the codex has been out over a year so what's your point?

Is he talking about the old blister-boxes with two gargs in them?

[quoteI'm talking about the 10 pack for 35$, which means they run at about 50 cents a point (44 if you have the biomorphs) compared to the 33 (or less with mods) that most models run. In 4th, when gargoyles were substantially more powerful that was fine, now the box is worth more like 20$.

You get 10 Gargoyles for £18 which is £1.80 each. Metal ones I think were £8 for 2 so a entire unit of 10 Gargoyles in metal would be £40 which is a massive difference, so I still don't see your point also Gargoyles wasn't any more powerful, they are the same as they are now and cost more points too.

Requia wrote:FFS, it has nothing to do with how awesome gargoyles are, it has everything to do with paying 35$ for a 20$ box.

I got curious and looked up the prices. Had to convert however. The Gargs goes for 29 USD.
- The fun thing, however, is that we currently pay less. 150 DKR converts to 27,5 USD...

mercer wrote:Check the FAQ on the tyrant and swarmlord reserve thing, pretty sure tyrant needs to be on the board

Couldn't find a word about it, could you please quote that for me, or recommend me to wear glasses?

mercer wrote:
You get 10 Gargoyles for £18 which is £1.80 each. Metal ones I think were £8 for 2 so a entire unit of 10 Gargoyles in metal would be £40 which is a massive difference, so I still don't see your point also Gargoyles wasn't any more powerful, they are the same as they are now and cost more points too.

What do the metal ones have to with it? Compare them to the cost of other current plastic models. How much do you pay for hormagaunts over there?

They were substantially more powerful, an extra close combat attack (at +1 str, double init, always hits on 4+), LD 10, and Fleet.

Playtested the list last night in a pick up game versus 3 other players with 1000 points each.
They were: Ig with Executioner, Demolisher, and hellhound, plus weapon teams
Chaos: A bunch of thousand sons and their tanks, and berserkers.
And unfortunately, Nids. He was running Tervigons, zoans, ymgarls, hive guard, and a bunch of devourer gants, but walking them.
I lost the roll and opted to reserve everything. "Everything?"
Yes, everything. They spent turn 1 and their part of turn two spreading out all over the board, despite the IG player begging them to "Hold the line". Ymgarls came in on turn 2 with nothing to do.

Tyranid turn two saw the destruction of the executioner, the demolisher, and immobilized the hellhound. The prime wiped a unit of regular genestealers with AP5 spines, and a pod of devourergants wiped a thousand son unit off the face of the world. Doom got up to 10 wounds quickly and then blasted a huge hole in the zerkers with cataclysm. One group of genestealers ran 6 to be able to assault a IG weapon team and murderized them, then consolodated another 6. Hive guard, swarmlord and hormos move up, and swarmlord casts paroxysm on the zerker. One harpy came in and HVC blasted another weapon team with its S9 ap4 blast and cluster spines.

A lot of disappointed looks from their side of the table as I had neutralized all the stuff that could really hurt me. I took some hits from everything that could hurt me (ap 5 fleshborers from tervigon spawns cut through my devgants painfully was the worst of it, and the IG guy flamed the bajeezus out of the Hormogaunts) on their turn three, but...
Game was essentially over at the end of my next turn. I have pics, but am on... ahem borrowed wifi internet with almost no capacity to upload pics.
Its ok, they are pretty demoralizing to look at. You can see how my tervigon never really even spawned. One spore of devgants drifted off the board and got placed in my back left corner. They proceeded to bust out the recreational drugs, sharing with the tervigon over there and the almost unused hive guard.

You'll see from the pics that I had given up the truly aggressive stomping after the initial castration of their forces. The rest of it is me doing stuff like moving the hormogaunts within 1" and not assaulting, not spawning gants, and scooping genestealers into a mound with both hands to move them, not worried at all that I was getting templated to death. Both sides knew what was going on, and it was billed as "Really fun" to blow away tyranids like that. The other nid player (great guy, but new to the game) at one point got excited and said something about the game becoming more even from their efforts. The chaos player explained that he didn't think that I was exactly "giving it my all" while the IG just shook his head looking at his ruined tanks and muttered stuff like "we are so boned".

But, as my buddy (acquaintance?) Chaos Calvin said, and QFT here:
I really enjoy games like this, where no one is really playing like its a tournament. No need to get excited, just calmly accept whats coming to you.


Price aside, gargoyles can suckle on it.
I've done the math, and can definately see how it would be beneficial, sometimes. Not in this list.
Truth is, no one ever complains when I run my hormogaunts as gargoyles. I've got one with a sign that says "We are gargoyles" planned to make confusion impossible. And any whiners can just deal with it.


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Also: the Hive Commander ability reads:
"In addition, whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive, you add 1 to your reserve rolls."

The only things I found in the FAQ are that:
1)Two Hive Commanders do not stack, and only one unit of troops gets to outflank.
2)Specifically states that Hive Commande and Alien Cunning DO stack.
3)There is no mention of off the board, on the board, or anything that even resembles text like the lictor has.
4)The lictors are FAQed as needing to be on the board for pheremone trail to work. Again, nothing about Tyrants.

So, since the tyrant is alive, just in reserve, I go ahead and add the +1.

But, as my buddy (acquaintance?) Chaos Calvin said, and QFT here:
I really enjoy games like this, where no one is really playing like its a tournament. No need to get excited, just calmly accept whats coming to you.

You somehow just can't deny that statement!

- Our OT's here in Denmark allows 1,7k lists with an added system called S3. I'm uncertain of whether or not it's taken from elsewhere, or have been invented by these people themselves. But the intention is to take off a good deal of the top of the stronger lists.

Link: http://www.powerfist.dk/forum/index.php?topic=43696.0
- Basically, they've added something called a Strategem cost to the powerhouses of each army, and have it capped at 10 SP for 1,5k-1,7k games.
(Ie, a LR is 4 SP, 2nd Rhino is 2 SP etc.)
- Furthermore, it strongly discourages redundancies in any lists, as each duplicate entry is added a cost of +2 SP.

The system itself has some holes, all around, and with proper knowledge, you ARE able to break it. But if you can prevent from utilizing it's loop-holes, you're looking at a decent system that gives the army some hard-choices, overall.

Well, i just thought i'd mention it!

So a well built army is penalised because other people make poor armies?

Breaking things is kinda what I do.

My Danish is a little rough, so some of the exposition was missed, but I got a fair amount through cognates and such.

Powerhouses? Here is specifically the Tyranid entry:
Tyranids:
• Mawloc, Prime, Doom of Malantai: 1 SP
• Trygon, Hive Tyrant: 2 SP
• Tervigon: 4 SP
• Zoanthrope (first two free): 1 SP/model
• Hive Guard: 1 SP/model
• Every 10 Genestealers rounding up (first 10 free): 2 SP
• Mycetic Spore: 1 SP

• Tyranids (models taken from the Troops section count 0,5): 80

Whaaaaat? Really? Basically you are penalized for taking any HQ choice or elites. Model cap of 80 models? For nids? at 1700?

That system blows with the force of a category 5 hurricane, with FEMA disaster trimming.


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Especially since:
Space Marines:
• Landraider (any variant): 4 SP
• Every five Terminators - any kind (rounding up): 1 SP
• Terminator Armour/SS combination (first three free): 1 SP/model
• Rhino, Razorback (first one free): 2 SP
• Drop pod: 2 SP
• Vulkan Hestan, Khan, Shrike: 4 SP


That denies only a vulcan list, really.

This system is stupid.
I hissed and I booed it.
And then eschewed it.

I totally agree Doomthumbs.

Nidzilla will be out, mech Guard and Angels would be out and probably Kan wall and Battlewagon rush which means all my armies wouldn't be viable