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During the course of the Horus Hersy books there have been a few lists and hints that the series have given up.
With your help I would like to complete them and fill in the gaps.

Lists I can find:
Trait inheretted from the emperor.
Flaw.
Role after the heresy (See Prospero Burns and Russ as the 'executioner')
Description of landing
Star sign (Horus Rising)

I shall come back and fill in the Primarchs I can find for each, but if I could get some assistance.....

Or you can just go to http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/306652.page, read http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000 or the index astartes articles/books.

Neither of those answered the above lists, and, even if they did, wouldn't by the way they are designed fill in non-factual gaps. If it wasn't in the book, it wouldn't be filled in.

If its non-factual, then it shouldn't be in the backgroud forum. Why would a list of a fan's speculations be of use to someone interested in the actual 40k fluff?

Flaw:
Lion-Unable to trust others.
Fulgrim-Pride.
Perturabo-Coldness.
Khan-unknown.
Russ-I want to say savagery, but he wasn't really. Battlelust perhaps.
Dorn-Stubborness.
Konrad Curze/Night Haunter-Schizophrenia.
Sanguinius-too perfect?
Ferrus-Stubborness again.
Angron-Rage.
Guilliman-Pride.
Mortarion-Unable to get along with his brothers.
Magnus-Pride again.
Horus-Pride (seeing a pattern yet?)
Lorgar-Too trusting.
Vulkan-Cared for the people too much: might have compromised the mission.
Corax-Hasty.
Alpharius/Omegon-Control freak.

In my opinion anyway.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Flaw:
Lion-Unable to trust others.
Fulgrim-Pride.
Perturabo-Coldness.
Khan-unknown.
Russ-I want to say savagery, but he wasn't really. Battlelust perhaps.
Dorn-Stubborness.
Konrad Curze/Night Haunter-Schizophrenia.
Sanguinius-too perfect?
Ferrus-Stubborness again.
Angron-Rage.
Guilliman-Pride.
Mortarion-Unable to get along with his brothers.
Magnus-Arrogant .
Horus-Pride (seeing a pattern yet?)
Lorgar-Too trusting.
Vulkan-Cared for the people too much: might have compromised the mission.
Corax-Too much awesomeness.
Alpharius/Omegon-Control freak.

In my opinion anyway.

fixed

I though Fulgrims flaw was that he desired perfection too much?

Daykinator wrote:I though Fulgrims flaw was that he desired perfection too much?

He got what he deemed perfection and then went about boasting about it more or less...

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Flaw:
Lion-freind-foe recognition invalid
Fulgrim- pride
Perturabo-brooding, unaccessible
Khan- savage
Russ- hypocrit
Dorn-Stubborness.
Konrad Curze/Night Haunter-Schizophrenia.
Sanguinius- self sacrificial tendencies
Ferrus- can't accept flaws of his brethren
Angron- lack of self-control
Guilliman-cold bean counter
Mortarion-Unable to get along with his brothers.
Magnus-too curious
Horus- overestimating is own person.
Lorgar- bigot coward
Vulkan- likes it hot
Corax- too silent
Alpharius/Omegon-Control freaks

Improved.

How is Russ a hypocrite?

Russ's Legion became hypocrites (at least rule-wise) Russ himself was a Boisterous Bruiser.

Probably due to the whole using Rune Priests thing; there's always going to be a lot of SW and Leman Russ hate.

To me, Russ' flaw was that he did exactly whatever the Emperor asked him to do instead of using his own head. That and his (otherwise) anti-authoritarian nature.
However, Russ still 'worked' exactly as intended; he was utterly loyal, a great leader and excelled in his 'job' (executioner).
He didn't question his place (didn't think he deserved to be Warmaster), he didn't complain about his demands or jobs given to him (Hi Perturabo). He accepted his place in the Imperium and went on with it.
However, despite this, he was still a compassionate guy, brotherhood being a key tenet of Russ' beliefs.

How much of a flaw this is is up to interpretation, but I'd say its his main flaw.

In terms of his trait of the Emperor, I'd say it's his utilitarian nature; in that he does what needs to be done. For the 'greater good' per se. The Emperor may be seen by many as a bloodthirsty nutjob and liar, but he still tried to achieve good things.
Russ also inherited his martial prowess.

Personally, I'd like to think that my Ranking the Primarchs thread (in my signature) summarised it well, although my opinion of Russ has changed (for the better) after reading Prospero Burns.

So....he was a dog?

*is repeatedly shot by Wolf-bolters for the incredibly lame pun*

Only in the sack.

*clears throat*

Ummm, yes. He was a Lap Dog of sorts IMHO, yes.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Russ's Legion became hypocrites (at least rule-wise) Russ himself was a Boisterous Bruiser.

So Russ himself wasn't a hypocrite?

Rules for his Legion are. I havent seen anything that indicates Russ himself was a hypocrite.

Except there are no rules for his Legion. There are rules for a Chapter that was once upon a time (long ago) led by Russ.
Bjorn is the only living connection to Russ within that Legion and ultimately:

Game =/= Fluff.

Just Dave wrote:Probably due to the whole using Rune Priests thing;

Correct.
Can't accuse others for keeping psykers and run Runepriests yourselves.

Just Dave wrote:
there's always going to be a lot of SW and Leman Russ hate.

Wasn't the reason

The second 'flaw' I could see is his refusal to accept the truth of Horus turning traitor. Evidence at hand himself, the so highly regarded senses of the SW should have
allowed to 'smell' the treachery. Mind you, they found the agent. But too focused on Magnus completly missed the size of the problem.

That's not how scents work.
If the agent doesn't know he is an agent then he won't reveal himself by smells or actions.
Admittedly he should have accepted the 'Horus is a traitor' thing but it is in his nature to be loyal so that obviously worked for and against him.

If Russ and his Legion was meant to be the executor, they should be able to identify the real target.

It was possible to find the agent from start and use him. It was not possible to identify the greater threat behind.

Seems the vlka fenryka was too scared to look when the place to spot the treachery was the warp....

The executioner carries out the task of execution. Not finding.
If the Alpha Legion were meant to be the intelligence then they should have been the ones to find treachery, unfortunately they were also traitorous.

The Alphas wrapped themselves in secrets until they weren't able to see the truth...

SW as a blunt weapon that can just hit where its pointed at is a weak solution. Expected better design from their inventor, aka Big E himself.
How did the SW operate independantly if they need to lease recon abilities from another Legio?
The fact of the caught agent says they should be able to find out.
The fast dismissal of the possibility of the "warmaster" and "favorite son" turning hints at a narrow sight, where a identified Target leads to a blind eye to any
other valid Targets on the way.

What?
The SW may have known about their purpose (The primarchs did) but spying on another legion and being able to find their enemy are different things. The Emperor would most likely be the only person to order the death of another legion the information relevant for this order would be gained by his information gatherers (The Alpha Legion in my opinion)
They caught the agent becase they pretty much always knew he was an agent, they just thought it was for Magnus and not Horus.
And SW were created purely to put down another legion if the need arose. That kind of power can't really be directed that well.

"Prospero burns" is the first book to mention intelligence and counter-intelligence amongst brother-Legions.
So spying is hinted at in a book of Space wolves, not in a book of Alpha legionaires...

I'll keep my point: Space Wolves focus too much on the given target to spot the evil left and right of their path.
Example: Magnus. Any other "traitor" was "impossible".
Its maybe a side-effect of a hunter. Good focus but ignorant to anything besides the job at hand.

I thik it is the whole hunter thing.
They will hit what you tell them too but not much else unless it bothers them.

The unofficial flaws?

Lion'El: spawned Nicole
Fulgrim: don't ask don't tell
Perturabo: not fun at cocktail parties
Khan: unappetizing bad diet of horse meat
Russ: food stuck in beard, beer-breath
Dorn: yellow is inappropriate
Kurze: never got over getting outsmarted by the Joker
Sanguineous: Fabio is bad enough, but with wings? ewwww..
Ferrus: iron manliness? if it persists for more than 4 hours contact a doctor...
Angron: does anybody take temper tantrum boy seriously?
Guilleman: (robot rowboat girlieman etc name aside) human resources management and accountants are not very heroic
Mortarion: hygene issues
Magnus: nobody likes a know-it-all
Horus: spoiled ungrateful brat. star pitcher and daddy coaches the little league team.
Lorgar: big shiney red button that says DO NOT PUSH... there's always some idiot
Vulkan: compassion is good for homeless shelters not battlefields
Corax: too fast. The ladies were not impressed
Alpharius/Omegon: wait, who am I?

1hadhq wrote:"Prospero burns" is the first book to mention intelligence and counter-intelligence amongst brother-Legions.
So spying is hinted at in a book of Space wolves, not in a book of Alpha legionaires...

I'll keep my point: Space Wolves focus too much on the given target to spot the evil left and right of their path.
Example: Magnus. Any other "traitor" was "impossible".
Its maybe a side-effect of a hunter. Good focus but ignorant to anything besides the job at hand.

Well, to be fair, no-one was willing to accept Horus was traitor until they saw it themselves. Garro was nearly killed by Dorn for saying such a thing. As Purplefood said earlier, the loyalty thing can work as a flaw and as a quality...

1hadhq wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Probably due to the whole using Rune Priests thing;

Correct.
Can't accuse others for keeping psykers and run Runepriests yourselves.

I agree, completely. Although, admittedly the Space Wolves thought of themselves more as controlling the earths powers rather than the warps and they merely dipped their toe in the water, whereas the TS dived right in. This is covered in Prospero Burns as I'm sure you know and ultimately I'd say it's more a matter of personal opinion whether they are hypocritical or not due to there being different extents of Sorcery at use.
I must admit though, I do agree that this is Hypocritical, but I think you can see the Space Wolves reasoning behind it...

It was better and more sensible when the council only banned sorcery. Doesn't make any sense for there to be any psykers now...

Night Haunter - misguided justice. He was never taught how to deal justice, all he knew was that to stop bad people he had to do something. So he killed them.

that's how I see it anyways.

Sanguinius - Angel (perfection in a way)

Angron - ANGER! rage, he was dissappointed that his daddy didn't spend time with him, and when he killed all his friends... So he was a rebel!

Mortarion - Didn't play well with others. Stoic, unmoving, unchanging, moody pessimist

that's all I've got for now, just what I think about the primarchs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and just so you know, I don't dislike any primarchs, just maybe Horus... and the Lion, but that's for different reasons