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So my IF army is coming along fairly well at this point.

My HQ is done, I have the AOBR Capitan, I have a librarian and a Chaplin, both in Power Armor. And my first two Trooper Units, 1 combat squad are done, 1 dedicated transport is finished, and I also have two elites done with my Dreadnoughts Brother Leny and Brother Karl

Now I am moving into the fast attack section of the army builder and I'd like to run bikes.

I have purchased two of the single bike models and one attack bike. And figured I could start there. I was going to make one a Sargent and equip him with a MC PP, I put a MCB (the one from the SM Commander kit, onto the back of the first bike, (which is done), now after reading the codex it seems the Sargent would actually be able to use his pistol but the SM would not be able to use the bolter, I'm okay with that because the Bolter looks cool on the back. But for the Attack Bike, I was planning to use magnets to be able to switch between the heavy bolter and the multi-melta.

So my question is, whats the best way to use bikes in the army that I have set up? And what is the best weapons load out for the AB?

Some good advice would be to buy Ravenwing. You get a massive discout on what is in the box, plus three Ravenwing sprues. The Ravenwing sprues are not 10/10, but you get quite a few weapons and interesting bits and bobs. You don't get any special weapons that way, but you'll probably pick up spare special weapons here and there anyway.

(Not tactics, I know, but good advice generally!)

Ebay is your friend when trying to get bikes, search there.

I have the bikes, I just want to know the best way to use them.

This is how I run my bike squads. I put my captain on a bike so I use them as troops.

Sargent with PF
2 Plasma Guns
2 Normal Guys
1 MM attack bike

This gives me 7 T5 wounds in the squad, making them fairly tough.
It gives me mobile platforms for the PGs, which I like -- but thats my style. A lot of people swear by MG with their bike squads, and while I do run them, they are in the minority.

Hope that helps.

dalsiandon wrote:I have the bikes, I just want to know the best way to use them.

Ohhh... ahah sorry!

Generally speaking, bikes should be geared to shoot. Bikes start with twin linked bolters, and since bikes are relentless this makes them excellent at range. Tossing in melta guns would make them viable against vehicles since they can turbo boost, one turn, then move 12 and shoot. For a basic squad of bikes, melta is probably the easiest thing to run since plasma works better on command squads due to FNP.

juraigamer wrote:For a basic squad of bikes, melta is probably the easiest thing to run since plasma works better on command squads due to FNP.

This is a common thread. People don't like the idea of losing a 40 point model due to 'gets hot'.

The fact is that your chances of losing a model are 1 in 18 every time you fire. Those are very small chances to begin with, and out of 6 PGs in my bike squads, I lose 1 guy every other game or so.

Now, take those 18 shots and look what they do to MEQ/MC/etc... They more than make up their points.

I'm not saying 'dont take melta' on the bikes, just realize thats not the only option. Plasma is a good tool for them.

You are quite right, since bikes are relentless the plasma works well, though I find time and time again that melta compliments my force more since I have excellent shooting in the army.

Lacking anti tank? Try some melta on the bikes, if not plasma is a good option.

labmouse42 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:For a basic squad of bikes, melta is probably the easiest thing to run since plasma works better on command squads due to FNP.

This is a common thread. People don't like the idea of losing a 40 point model due to 'gets hot'.

The fact is that your chances of losing a model are 1 in 18 every time you fire. Those are very small chances to begin with, and out of 6 PGs in my bike squads, I lose 1 guy every other game or so.

Now, take those 18 shots and look what they do to MEQ/MC/etc... They more than make up their points.

I'm not saying 'dont take melta' on the bikes, just realize thats not the only option. Plasma is a good tool for them.

I was considering the plasma since bikes are just a hair less fragile than the standard SM that Get's Hot probably wouldn't be an issue since the bike isn't likely to survive long enough for more than 2 or 3 shots max.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

juraigamer wrote:You are quite right, since bikes are relentless the plasma works well, though I find time and time again that melta compliments my force more since I have excellent shooting in the army.

Lacking anti tank? Try some melta on the bikes, if not plasma is a good option.

I have plenty of anti-tank in my force, I have two ML and two Meltas in my 2 tactical squads, one of the sargent has a combi-melta and and my command squad has a Melta and the vet. sargent with a combi-melta as well. Plus add in all the krak grenades, my marines have plenty of anti-tank, also my dreadnoughts have anti-tank as well, Leny has a multi-melta and Karl has a twin-linked Lascannon

Plasma guns it is. I plan to run a full squad with a PW/MB sarge, 2 plasma gunner bikers and a HB attack bike. Lots of anti infantry in there and plenty of wounds to share about.

Nice choice, I love bikers just for the models, you can do so many interesting things with them!

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Plasma guns it is. I plan to run a full squad with a PW/MB sarge, 2 plasma gunner bikers and a HB attack bike. Lots of anti infantry in there and plenty of wounds to share about.

C:SM bike searges don't get an extra CC weapon. With a PW they only get 2 attacks. Might as well give them a fist so their STR 8

2 attack fists aren't worth the points in a unit that is bad in CC, its not gong to turn the tide.

If he is going with plasma gun bikes, he should be staying pretty far away from assault units. So CC options aren't even needed. Probably best just giving him a combi, or nothing at all.

Also, the HB attack bike isn't worth the points at all. 3 S5 shots isn't going to kill a marine, and barely kills 1-2 xeno scum (which usually cost 10 points or less per model). A MM is actually worth the points, as it instant kills multi wound models with T4 or less, has AP1 which is good against FNP and tanks (even firing long range it is better than a ML) and has the potential to use the melta rule (dangerous getting close, but at least it is an option).

notabot187 wrote:2 attack fists aren't worth the points in a unit that is bad in CC, its not gong to turn the tide.

If he is going with plasma gun bikes, he should be staying pretty far away from assault units. So CC options aren't even needed. Probably best just giving him a combi, or nothing at all.

This is where we disagree -- and its probably due to a difference in play style. I play aggressively, and use my bikes for that purpose.

Let me give an example of why the PF is a good tool on the bike squad. Let us say that 5 BA assault marines and 1 priest have been cleared out their transport. You move your bike squad up and fire into the squad within 12". You can expect to kill 4 with your PG/MM/bolter shots. Afterwords you can assault with 3 PF attacks and 11 bike attacks (assuming 6 in the squad) which should be enough to finish the BA up.
If you did not assault, then you would be assaulted by the furious charging priest, and probably shot with a MG before the assault. This would cause you to lose between 1 and 3 bikes, depending on the loadout of the priest. Without a PF, odds are that your squad will break and flee. For that 25 point investment, you gained the ability to 'seal the deal'.
In TAC squads, the use of a PF is highly debatable, as the marines cannot fire their weapons and then assault. Bikes are relentless, and can move in just fine after double tapping, and the favor tips into PF.

notabot187 wrote:Also, the HB attack bike isn't worth the points at all.

Again, this is where I disagree with notabot. You can look at a HB bike as a normal biker with 2 wounds and 2 attacks. Your paying 15 points for that extra wound, which is cheaper than another bike and gives you a HB in the process. This is highly useful, as that bike wound is your ablative wound to take on the squad first from shooting, allowing you to keep full squad firepower a little longer.

notabot187 wrote:A MM is actually worth the points, as it instant kills multi wound models with T4 or less, has AP1 which is good against FNP and tanks (even firing long range it is better than a ML) and has the potential to use the melta rule (dangerous getting close, but at least it is an option).

This is where I agree with notabot. If you have the 10 extra points, a MM synagrizes well with the PG, as both will ignore MEQ saves, and wound on a 2+. That gives you 5 dice to wound MC, for example. It also gives your squad more anti-vehicle firepower -- combined with the 4 STR 7 shots and PF assault can be very scary to vehicles.

So if you can spare the 10 points, the MM is a great option. If the way the points fall, you only have 40 points for a HB, its still worth it for the ablative wound -- so don't skip the attack bike alltogether just because you don't have the last 10 points.

Honestly at 300pts for a full squad it does make you wonder for points. And yet I have ran my unit more than once and more often than not it gets a bit shot up while the plasma gunners get qutie a few kills. I also attach a biker Khan to said squad for some extra kick, but that's just me.

I play aggressively too, I just don't care when I lose units, and don't try to do things they really aren't meant for. I don't pay for flexibility, and hope to get it back by having more units.

When I say the HB isn't worth it, what I'm really saying if you take the attack bike, its a waste to not spend 10 more points for a much better weapon.

I'll read this thread as well. As I am also buying some bikes. this actually useful to all bike user armies.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Honestly at 300pts for a full squad it does make you wonder for points. And yet I have ran my unit more than once and more often than not it gets a bit shot up while the plasma gunners get qutie a few kills. I also attach a biker Khan to said squad for some extra kick, but that's just me.

What is biker Khan? And so the plasma guns have been effective for you on bikers? While the other loadouts have not Im guessing from your remarks.

Alright so as it stands my bike squad loks like this;

1 Standard Bike no upgrades or frills
1 Bike Sarge with Plasma Pistol
1 Attack Bike with Multi-Melta and the option for the HB

What else would I need to add to this squad to maximize its potnetial? Or is this a good unit to go with and I leave my other fast attack slot open for some typhoon style landspeeders?

If you're going to run your bikes for anti-infantry, I've found that dual flamers is a very good buy (though very often overlooked), especially if you do run a PF on the sgt. With the mobility bikes provide, it's very easy to cover entire squads with both flamers. Double tapping the TL bolters and a HB as well will go a very long way towards wiping even a full 10 MEQ's, after which the assault from 8 bikes and an attk bike should very easily 'seal the deal' as labmouse put it.

Lordhat wrote: If you're going to run your bikes for anti-infantry, I've found that dual flamers is a very good buy (though very often overlooked), especially if you do run a PF on the sgt. With the mobility bikes provide, it's very easy to cover entire squads with both flamers. Double tapping the TL bolters and a HB as well will go a very long way towards wiping even a full 10 MEQ's, after which the assault from 8 bikes and an attk bike should very easily 'seal the deal' as labmouse put it.

Are the dual flamers hand weapons or linked into the bike in place of the T/L bolters?

You get the flamers in addition to the twin-linked bolters on the bike, but remember you can't fire both in the same round. You have to choose which weapon your going to shoot with.

Captain Awesome wrote:You get the flamers in addition to the twin-linked bolters on the bike, but remember you can't fire both in the same round. You have to choose which weapon your going to shoot with.

okay, well that could provide some nice versatility then.

dalsiandon wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Honestly at 300pts for a full squad it does make you wonder for points. And yet I have ran my unit more than once and more often than not it gets a bit shot up while the plasma gunners get qutie a few kills. I also attach a biker Khan to said squad for some extra kick, but that's just me.

What is biker Khan? And so the plasma guns have been effective for you on bikers? While the other loadouts have not Im guessing from your remarks.

Alright so as it stands my bike squad loks like this;

1 Standard Bike no upgrades or frills
1 Bike Sarge with Plasma Pistol
1 Attack Bike with Multi-Melta and the option for the HB

What else would I need to add to this squad to maximize its potnetial? Or is this a good unit to go with and I leave my other fast attack slot open for some typhoon style landspeeders?

Well first off a standard bike squad is 3 bikers big. I would personally max out the normal biker slots with a special weapon on one or both. Sergeant could do with a combi or a good cc weapon. Plasma pistol isn't a bad choice.

Now, biker khan is a real neat character. First he lets your biker squads of 5 or more be troops, so long as is on his bike. Second is that all units in the army can Outflank - any dediacted transports for units can do the same. Next is that with a power sword that insta-kills on 6's, furious charge and hit & run to him and his unit, he will cause major hurt with a squad he's attached to. On his bike he also gains the ability to run and has Fleet so on his own he can really get into someone's face.
As for my plasma bikers, those are the ones I chose to run with at the start. I have a melta biker squad planned as well - 2 meltas, combi melta sarge and MM attack bike. Lots of anti vehicle for 300pts. Flamers don't strike me as an obvious choice since you're going in close to use them. Might make sense for a Khan-attached squad but I would rather have plasma to soften enemies up and make a better use of the relentless rule on the bikers.

The good thing about taking plasma over melta is that you get the 24 inch shot meaning you could play hit and run by staying out of assault range and just firing your one shot. Or you could charge in and unload on a small squad with the 12 inch double shot. It all depends if you want to run your bikes in more of a fast tactical squad roll or an assaulty type roll. In my experience the bikes are better off hanging back at 24 inch and being a moving shooting platform.

As a troops choice, the bikers are pretty good actually.

5 bikes, 2 plasma is 170. That is not terrible for a mobile troops choice that is fairly tough.

If you go 2 flamers and a P.Fist (helps for killing tanks and dedicated shooting units and such) its 175.

2 meltas and its 160. Not bad compared to a tac squad, plus it is only one kill point.