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Im going to be jumping back into the world of 40k soon and rather than play something remotely like my old Ork or Space Wolf armies I intend to try my hand at the somewhat old fashioned Tau Empire. Before I get too deeply invested in the models I like (and too protective of those that I own), I was looking for some advice on what can make a Tau army dangerous in the new 40k. I know they arent all that competitive right now but Ive always liked a challenge and I dont play with a competitive crowd anyway.

Below is my initial thoughts on a 1500pt army.

Shas’el wt Air Fragmentation Projector, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pods, HW Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones-- 142

XV8 Bodyguard wt 2 Shas’vre, Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles, HW Multi-Trackers, HW Drone Controllers, 1 Shield Drone-- 169

XV8 Crisis Suits wt 1 Shas’ui wt Missile Pods, Fusion Gun, Multi-Tracker, 1 Shas’ui Leader wt Missile Pods, Twin-Linked Fusion Gun, HW Multi-Tracker, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones-- 165

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la wt Photon Grenades, 1 Shas’ui wt Photon Grenade, Bonding Knife-- 147
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Disruption Pods-- 105

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la wt Photon Grenades, 1 Shas’ui wt Photon Grenade, Bonding Knife-- 147
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Disruption Pods-- 105

Kroot Carnivores wt 13 Kroot, 1 Kroot Shaper, 6 Kroot Hounds-- 155

XV88 Broadsides wt 1 Shas’ui wt Advanced Stabilizers, 1 Shas’ui Leader wt Advanced Stabilizers, HW Target Lock, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones-- 195

Hammerhead Gunship wt Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker-165

Looks pretty good but I'd drop the hammerhead to get more broadsides or crisis suits. But overall pretty standard Tau list

O.O

Okay, first off, ditch the Photon grenades. Why would you ever want them? They make your fire warriors possibly last longer in assault, but what purpose would that serve? If you don't get pwned in the first assault, you will die on your turn. This is bad as it takes away your ability to fire at the assaulting unit. Its a lose-lose situation taking the photon grenades.

Second, you commander can only fire 2 weapons, so I would ditch one of them, most likely the AFP.

I would suggest putting multi-trackers and targeting arrays on your devilfish.

On your hammerhead, I would use 2 burst cannons rather than SMS. The burst cannons get more shots and are cheaper.

That's about all.

I don't like your Missile-Pod/Fusion Blaster unit...

I would suggest using TL Missile Pod/Flamer instead... it is cheaper and I would consider it better.

What do you think i should get next for my tau army.
Tanks or more troops.I dont want to get more HQ
many thanks commandershadowsun.....

Can't go wrong with more crisis suits

The new list, see what you think...


Shas’el wt Air Fragmentation Projector, Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, HW Target-Lock, HW Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones-- 145

XV8 Bodyguard wt 2 Shas’vre, Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Targeting Arrays-- 142

XV8 Crisis Suits wt 2 Shas’ui wt Missile Pods, Twin-linked Fusion Blasters-- 110

XV8 Crisis Suits wt 2 Shas’ui wt Twin-linked Missile Pods, Fusion Blasters-- 110

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la, 1 Shas’ui wt Bonding Knife-- 135
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pods-- 115

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la, 1 Shas’ui wt Bonding Knife-- 135
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pods-- 115

Kroot Kindred wt 10 Kroot Carnivores-- 70

Kroot Kindred wt 10 Kroot Carnivores-- 70

XV88 Broadsides wt 2 Shas’ui wt Advanced Stabilizers-- 160

Hammerhead Gunship wt Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker-165

Where are your multi-trackers? really you nrrd them.
and i think fragmentation projector is useless.
1st suit (bodyguard) squad: flamers to missile pods
2nd suit squad: make them fireknifes or deathrains ( PR and MP or twin MP and flamer or targeting array)
3rd suit squad: Fusio blasters to flamer or targeting array
and maybe more kroot and array to your warfish, but everything else looks good.
but you could also make 1 broadside teamleader and give him HW target-lock

Would you care to tell me why the crisis teams should be kitted out so? I don't really follow. The main reason I want fusion guns is to burn tanks, since the only consistent anti-tank guns in the army are on the broadsides, deep-striking battle-suites can creep close and get the job done.
I dont think I'll add the team leader and target lock. I dont have the points and dont see the point since it takes an average of 2 railgun shots to smoke a tank anyhow. It might be nice at a higher point level for those lucky shots but I cant spare the dough just now.
The AFP is for hoard armies that like to bunker in terrain. It'll put em in their place quite nicely dont you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've tried to work in some advice, but I dont have to wiggle room for all of it.

Shas’el wt Air Fragmentation Projector, Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, HW Target-Lock, HW Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones-- 145

XV8 Bodyguard wt 2 Shas’vre, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Targeting Arrays-- 152

XV8 Crisis Suits wt 2 Shas’ui wt Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Fusion Blasters-- 110

XV8 Crisis Suits wt 2 Shas’ui wt Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles-- 126

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la, 1 Shas’ui wt Bonding Knife-- 135
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pods-- 115

Fire Warriors wt 11 Shas’la, 1 Shas’ui wt Bonding Knife-- 135
Devilfish Transport wt SMS, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pods-- 115

Kroot Kindred wt 10 Kroot Carnivores-- 70

Kroot Kindred wt 10 Kroot Carnivores-- 70

XV88 Broadsides wt 2 Shas’ui wt Advanced Stabilizers-- 160

Hammerhead Gunship wt Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker-165



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dont have the points for a TA on the Devilfish, and I'd like to give the 3rd Crisis team a TA but went for the TL missile pods instead cause its cheaper. Ive got a 2 point surplus, so bare that in mind if you think anything else should be changed, since I'll need to know how to do it.

You could drop the Firewarrior squads down to 6 man If you need more points for all the said stuff

Best crisis builds:
fireknives: plasma rifle, missile pod and multi-tracker
deathrains: twin-Missile pods and flamer (or some people play targeting array)

fireknives are 'standard' build for crisis suits, and deathrains are cheap build IIRC

To elaborate on what the unforgiven said, fireknives are your best all-comers build. They're awesome for MEQs and even against other armies, 12 shots per squad is nothing to scoff at. The deathrains are good for popping light transport as well as picking off infantry. Then when they get close just flame them.

I have a few suggestions for your list.

HQ: I would drop the bodyguard down to shas'ui since you still have 1 elite slot open. That saves you 20 points right there. If you want the HQ to join them just say so. Then you could also drop the HW Target Lock (if you want him to fire separately just make him un-join) and the Bonding Knife (because as soon as the 2 suits die he goes back to being an IC). I don't have the codex in front of me, but I think this will save you another 10 points. Also, the HQ loadout could be better focused. You could switch the Plasma Rifle to a Burst Cannon, or maybe even a Missile Pod.

Elites: Multi-trackers are the way to go. While the Targeting Array is nice, it won't give you as many shots. Let's look at the PR/MP suits. With Targeting Array, you'll probably get about 1 hit. With the Multi-Tracker, you're statistically guaranteed 2 hits (assuming you're in rapid fire range). As for the TL MP/FB combo, I would either make them deathrains or TL the FB and add on a Targeting Array or Flamer. If you fire with the Fusion Blaster, you'll only get 1 or 2 hits. If you TL them, you'll get all 3 hits, which will help you get a better result when rolling for the vehicle damage results. The flamer is just a cheap option to add on that can take whatever is inside the vehicle you just blew up, assuming you don't get assaulted and die.

Troops: The only recommendations I have are get Targeting Arrays for the Devilfish and maybe add some Kroot Hounds if you can. They're faster and get an additional attack, so they can be helpful in assaults. Also, if you want to spend points elsewhere, don't be afraid to drop a few FWs. I run 8 or 9 in a squad and they're still pretty effective.

Heavy Support: Another option to consider with your remaining points is to add on Shield Drones to your Broadsides. This will really help their survivability. Just dump all the hard-hitting, AP2 shots on the shield drones.

Also, you may want to consider adding in Pathfinders. They're an amazing support option, and you've already paid for the Devilfish. Taking away cover saves or upping your units' BS (don't need the Targeting Arrays anymore) can really help you out in a game. Plus it takes opponent's fire away from your suits and tanks.

@ Leith: sorry that I don't have more time to post an in-depth analysis of your list, but I just posted this on another 1500 point tau army list thread and I think it should address most of your questions. The thread is here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/346490.page

This was my post:

First, fire warriors are pretty awful; kroot aren't much better, but at least they're cheaper, are WS4 and S4. To that effect, drop all the extra fire warriors except for a single min squad (because you have to take it as a 1+ choice). At 1500 I don't know that you have a whole lot of room to run a warfish (devilfish with smart missile, multi-tracker, targeting array, disruption pod) so I would just take a stripped-down d-fish with drones and a disruption pod. Just remember to disembark the drones along with the fire warriors so you can screen the fire warriors from charging.

So like I said, kroot are better than fire warriors. Kroot hounds are even better than carnivores, so generally you want to take as many kroot hounds and as few carnivores as possible. The reason kroot squads are better than fire warriors is because they get a nifty +1 to cover saves in forests, they outflank (via infiltrate) and they screen your suits (of which you will run many) from being charge by melee armies, as well as by providing a 4+ cover save when they get missiles shot at them.

As for your HQ, it's too expensive. You should always take the Shas'el as he's cheaper. The boost to the stat line isn't worth the 25 points. Tau aren't a point-efficient codex, but that doesn't give us license to throw away points on needless kit (like shield generators). I'd strip the generators from the HQ squad, cut down the Shas'o to an 'el, and give the body targeting arrays. That saves you 65 points and gives you a nice shooty HQ choice that has range, power and BS4 accuracy.

Now to your elites. The thing about the tau codex (and I got into depth on other tau army list threads about this--feel free to check out my profile if you want to read my doctoral thesis on the tau codex) is that our firepower is concentrated in the elite and heavy support slots (with a little in the HQ slot). This contrasts sharply with other codices, which have firepower spread across all FOC slots. So, tau want to maximize their firepower in the elite and heavy support slots. That leaves out the possibility of running things like stealth suits and hammerheads. I think you might be able to get away with running a hammerhead at 1500, but at 1750+ you want to run broadsides, because you can literally take two broadsides for the cost a single hammerhead, thus giving you access to double the railgun for roughly the same price. So, if you don't have any more broadsides, I suppose you could keep it in as-is (the kit you have on it is good--it's what I use). But if you have any more broadsides I'd run them instead.

So, as aforementioned, you want more crisis suits to flesh out the firepower in your elite slot. I'm a big fan of TL missile pods on my elite crisis suits (HQ suits usually get missile pod/plasma rifle because I can still make them BS4 by giving them hard-wired targeting arrays). Three crisis suits with TL missile pods and targeting arrays comes to 159 points. That gives you a unit firing six autocannon shots hitting on a re-rollable 3+. That's sexy. It's fragile, which is why you keep kroot nearby so you can jump-shoot-jump back behind them. But I think it's the best kit you can have on an elite crisis suit.

So, incorporating the foregoing, this is what I recommend:

1500/1500

--HQ--

1 Shas'el 87
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
2 Bodyguard 164
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Multi-tracker x2
-HW Targeting Array

--Elite--

3 Crisis Suit 159
-TL Missile Pod x3
-Targeting Array x3

3 Crisis Suit 159
-TL Missile Pod x3
-Targeting Array x3

3 Crisis Suit 159
-TL Missile Pod x3
-Targeting Array x3

--Troops--

6 Fire Warriors 145
1 Devilfish
-Disruption Pod

10 Kroot Carnivores 106
6 Kroot Hounds

10 Kroot Carnivores 106
6 Kroot Hounds

--Heavy Support--

3 Broadside Battlesuit 250
-Advanced Stabilization System x3
-Team Leader
--HW Target Lock

1 Hammerhead 165
-Disruption Pod
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Multi-tracker

That gives you 24 S7 shots, four railgun shots potentially shooting three separate targets, a mobile fire warrior squad with kroot backup and three plasma guns. You line up the crisis suits behind the kroot wall, jump-shoot-jump, keep the fire warriors mounted and make a dash for objectives near the end of the game, and generally pwn face with your heavy support slots.

If you don't have any of that, just PM me what you do have I can advise you from there.

Hope it helps.

Knute