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It seems that with the abundance of vehicles and mechanization available to most armies that it is a given that we'll see lots of transports and general mechanization of armies.

In light of this is a foot slogging army still a viable option?

For instance If we look at SM in general with the points you save not taking a vehicle you could generate a few extra squads and even kit out these squads with weapons to deal with the opposing player's mechanized forces. With combat squading you can create anti-tank squads that camp while sending the more mobile assault forces forward to claim objectives.

The same could be said of IG with huge blobs of troops putting out a high number of shots they can torrent fire most mechanized forces and withstand assaults through sheer numbers.

I think it would be cool to see a table with hordes of infantry and not a vehicle in sight every once in awhile but not sure how much success foot slogging forces would have against mech. Are certain codexes better geared towards this option than others?

I run an ork green tide army with ~180 at 1750 points. It makes for a fun game, and has its strengths and weaknesses.

The biggest problem with running armies like that is the time it takes to play the game. By the time you move all those models 5-7 times, the game will have taken 3-4 hours, making it not really feasable for any tournaments.

Not to mention when someone brings a mech list with so many templates that you willl never reach his lines (if that is part of your intentions). It's the main reason I didn't do a horde army - too much risk from being plated off the table.

Stravo wrote:In light of this is a foot slogging army still a viable option?

Yes.

Foot armies can do anything that non-foot armies can do with just a couple of exceptions, such as ordnance spam, or being either "fast" or "skimmer". Not having these things, though, are easily work-aroundable, while there are some things that foot lists can do that are more difficult for mechanized lists (like being good in assault, for example).

Really, it's more of a play style thing than any real question of viability.

I hope so, otherwise my Tyranids are pretty screwed.

Tyranids are foot slogging, though it is debatable how viable they are.

I feel that Deathwing is a fully viable list at any point level. There are certain bad matchups in today's meta, but there are many more favorable matchups. I have three non-footslogging models (typhoon speeders) in the list at 2500, and that's it for vehicles.

my Marines (Kantor list) Deathwing and Guard (Elysians) are all footsloggers, 30+ games over the last year and only 2-3 losses (several people on dakka can confirm) in all lists Walkers feature heavily.

This battle report by Ailaros is a really good illustration of what a fast-moving army can do to a footslogging army:

http://www.ailarian.com/folera/batreps/blood-conquers-all/blood-conquers-19.html

Even though the Eldar player completely failed to concentrate properly or use his mobility, even Ailaros admits that it was a tough matchup. In the end it was the one mobile Al'Rahem unit that saved the day. Grav tanks or an army not so heavily dependent on close combat could do even more to footsloggers.

Mattlov wrote:I hope so, otherwise my Tyranids are pretty screwed.

haha I was gonna say that too! Although they do get spore pods now.

With the meta of so many lgs being slated to mechanized, an army that makes a lot of your opponents anti-mech weaponry somewhat useless can definitely bring that x factor where people are unaccustomed on how to deal with it.

Flavius Infernus wrote:This battle report by Ailaros is a really good illustration of what a fast-moving army can do to a footslogging army:

http://www.ailarian.com/folera/batreps/blood-conquers-all/blood-conquers-19.html

Even though the Eldar player completely failed to concentrate properly or use his mobility, even Ailaros admits that it was a tough matchup.

Yeah, that's why I'm taking stormtroopers and real heavy weapons now.

On foot, of course.

And, having said that, I also have a infantry army:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ravenguard_Shrike

If you don't count the three drop pods. But I offset the lack of mobility by giving most of them jump packs.

Foot armies are completely viable and in fact, one of the best builds in the game currently is the Power Blob IG list. You don't see it that often for logistical reasons.

Viable foot builds:

Green Tide
Deathwing
Footdar
Tyranids (obviously)
Wolfstar
Power Blob IG

And I am sure there are more. If you get creative, I bet you can build a viable foot list from most books.

Reecius wrote:Foot armies are completely viable and in fact, one of the best builds in the game currently is the Power Blob IG list. You don't see it that often for logistical reasons.

Viable foot builds:

Footdar

And I am sure there are more. If you get creative, I bet you can build a viable foot list from most books.

This is debatable.

Footdar and Green Tide are both debatable in today's meta.

Wolfstar is kind of a weird one; "Amazingly powerful list, completely neutered by multi-level ruins."

Haha, Striderx, it seems like you really like to refute things I say, or maybe I am getting you confused with someone else.

Everything in the game is debatable.

I, and others have won tournaments with Footdar. Is it the best build in the game? That is debatable! But I would say no.

Can you win with them? Yes.

By definition that would make it a viable list.

@Sourclams
Wolfstar isn't defeated by multi-level ruins as you still have Grey Hunters, it is kicked in the nuts by PBS though! haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know some Green Tide players that have over 80% win ratios against top level competition and so I always argue in favor of Green Tide being top tier. I have seen it and played against it enough times to feel strongly that they are. YMMV

Reecius wrote:Haha, Striderx, it seems like you really like to refute things I say, or maybe I am getting you confused with someone else.

If you think you are not sure, then please don't assume ... ... I would appreciate that.
Also, to say that I LIKE to refute things YOU say seems to suggest to me that you think too highly of yourself...

Reecius wrote:Everything in the game is debatable.

I, and others have won tournaments with Footdar. Is it the best build in the game? That is debatable! But I would say no.

I have won games with crappy lists as well. That doesnt mean my list was awesome. It depends on the quality of the tournament, and I m sure many here agree that quite a large number of tournaments arent even competitive. That said, please don't assume I m implying that you are not good. I m not doubting your ability as a general.

Reecius wrote:Can you win with them? Yes.

By definition that would make it a viable list.

You can win with ANY list, no matter how sucky it is. The other variables like generalship, the quality of your opponent, all contribute in determining the outcome. So I would say your last point here is highly flawed.

Kilkrazy wrote:Tyranids are foot slogging, though it is debatable how viable they are.

Well, if the other guy brings a footslogging army I think it's reasonable to expect nids to be viable for that fight.

I've primarily run a footdar list, foot lists can do well in my area, but theres not many fully mech lists, although people are starting to gear that way as am i. I've fully meched up more or less as of the new year but i did find my foot/hybrid lists to perform just as well.

I'm a firm believer that any well balanced type of list can beat any other, barring extreme exceptions. It all depends on the player and how well he can control his forces.

striderx wrote:

Reecius wrote:Haha, Striderx, it seems like you really like to refute things I say, or maybe I am getting you confused with someone else.

If you think you are not sure, then please don't assume ... ... I would appreciate that.

Good point. I shouldn't assume anything and that came across kind of lame of me. I apologize if I offended you, I didn't mean to. I was just making an observation (that may not even be accurate).

Do I think too highly of myself? Haha, possibly!

I agree with you though, player skill, mission and terrain all have a huge impact on how a game goes down. Those things are not easily quantified and as such make it hard to discuss the objective value of a list as the list doesn't play itself, as we all know.

Foot lists can and do win tournaments though, so I think that is the best, objective test me have to determine what is good and what isn't.

You, and everyone, is free to hold a different opinion though, which is fine.

One factor not mentioned is Mission and table orientation. Deploying 180 foot in a quarter v IG Tank/artillery spam...with second turn, might be very ugly. And depending on the number and spacing of objectives it could be tough for foot to walk and contest every objective. Remember, even one uncontested objective can mean the game sometimes.

Also skimmers might struggle for table space, even if they can fly over your squads - and 360 facing means they get no advantage being behind you lines.

Aman wrote:One factor not mentioned is Mission and table orientation. Deploying 180 foot in a quarter v IG Tank/artillery spam...with second turn, might be very ugly. And depending on the number and spacing of objectives it could be tough for foot to walk and contest every objective. Remember, even one uncontested objective can mean the game sometimes.

Also skimmers might struggle for table space, even if they can fly over your squads - and 360 facing means they get no advantage being behind you lines.

Footslogging is going to include things like jump infantry, jetpackers, infiltrators, scouts, fleet assault units (especially cavalry) and deepstrikers. On foot doesn't have to mean slow, or crowded.

Logan with 5 man WG squads each sporting a cyclone termi and 3 longfangs squads is pretty mean, even without rides. Massed BA JP assault marines don't need transports.

For armies lacking a good armor save, orks do pretty well on foot thanks to numbers and tyranids are okay. Massed IG has its adherents, but I have seen it get wiped too much by templates/ordinance and high attack cc units to agree. Foot units always struggle with mobility, though, which can cause real problems in many scenarios.

Foot lists are absolutely viable, the biggest thing I see is mobility. They can pack in bodies, heavy weapons assault groups, anything you need, but they need to have something to help get them across the table, be it Outflanking or deep-striking. Also, large groups of infantry can sometimes be unwieldy to move and time consuming. Death by movement army.

How would one go about concocting a footsloggin C:SM army?

My friend has been trying to do this, and has failed miserably so far.

With the vanilla SM codex, I probably wouldn't. Their strength is midrange and they need the mobility transports offer. However, a bike captain unlocks troop biker squads which are a very good option.

I drew up a 1500 pt. CSM list with something like...

Sorcerer, wings, gifts of chaos
Sorcerer, wings, gifts of chaos

raptors (5), power fist, 2x meltaguns
raptors (5), power fist, 2x meltaguns

CSM (10) MoCG, 2x meltaguns, power fist
CSM (10) MoCG, 2x meltaguns, power fist
CSM (10) MoCG, 2x meltaguns, power fist
CSM (10) MoCG, 2x meltaguns, power fist
CSM (10) MoCG, 2x meltaguns, power fist

Or something like that.

The sheer quantity of melta + some mobility options means you're good against vehicles while the sheer quantity of 3-attacks-on-the-charge dudes with rerollable Ld10 means that you're very likely proofed against hordes. Plus, 72 dudes in power armor is going to be tough to wear down.

That and you have gifts of chaos, which can help with some of the more obnoxious things out there like commissars and wraithlord.

Haven't done it (haven't even started... so many models...), but it looks nice on paper.

Lord PoPo wrote:How would one go about concocting a footsloggin C:SM army?

My friend has been trying to do this, and has failed miserably so far.

Actually, there is a very powerful build you can make in C:SM

Shrike
30 Haminators
Shooting and scoring units to taste.

That list is brutal.

For the OP
I think this
http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/01/foot-lists-why-they-do-and-dont-work.html
provides a really good summary of the various positions some of the posters above have taken and provides the rationale on why some lists do work as foot lists

Cheers,

razor