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I'm not gonna lie. After playing with Bret Knights at the Dakkacon Warbands campaign, I kind of caught the Bret-bug.

Still not too sure on the synergy of it all, but I came up with this list. Comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

LORDS
Bret Lord - 220
Virtue of Confidence, Gauntlet of the Duel, Gromril Great Helm, Sword of Might, Lance, Shield, Barded Bret Warhorse

HEROES
Paladin - 123
BSB, Enchanted Shield, Shrieking Blade, Dawnstone, Lance, Barded Warhorse

Paladin - 130
Virtue of Heroism, Dragonhelm, Lance, Shield, Barded Warhorse

Damsel - 140
Lvl2, Warhorse, Dispel Scroll (Beasts)

Damsel - 165
Lvl2, Warhorse, Sivejer's Hex Scroll (Life)


CORE
10x Knights of the Realm - 274
Full Command, Banner of Swiftness

10x Knights of the Realm - 274
Full Command, Banner of Chalon

8x Knights of the Realm - 226
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

40x Men-at-Arms - 215
Muso, Standard

30x Peasant Archers - 185
Muso


SPECIAL
5x Pegasus Knights - 275
Gallant

5x Mounted Yeoman - 82
Muso


RARE
2x Field Trebuchet - 180

TOTAL 2489

So the ideas are:

Lord is going around challenging wherever he can and will probably go with the Banner of Swiftness unit along with the Beasts Damsel (hopefully casting the Signature spell to augment)
BSB and Life Damsel go with Banner of Chalon unit. (May run this Damsel as Lore of Beasts as well)
KB Paladin provides support with the remaining KotR unit, maybe does some Monster-hunting.
Pegasus Knights run around setting up rear-charges or generally disrupting enemy back-ranks.
Mounted Yeoman provide minor warmachine-hunting/march-blocking/harrassing/baiting.
Peasant/Men-at-Arms blocks hold a flank with the Trebuchets just raining down rocks.

I'm left with 11 points that I dunno what to with.

How much is a peg knight? 5 seems pretty uber for what they're good for (which is a lot, just not taking down 275 point units). Also they have a musician, right?

Basically, I'm trying to get you a couple more knights in one of those lances, for a little more anti-steadfast oomph.

- Salvage

55 a pop. I liked them at 3 from DakkaCon as well. No musician in the above, though that's conveniently 10 points.

If I dropped 2 Peg Knights, I'd have space for another 4 RnF Knight + change.

I think 4 + musician is solid, shenanigan power + enough attaks to go aggro when called to. 3 seems a bit small for the latter and/or vulnerable to guns/magicks.

- Salvage

I'll agree with that. I'm not sure what I think of the BSB build, but I like the Lord's. The Birthsword, if I remember, costs 15 more than the Sword of Might, which would max him out. Not sure if it's necessary. A Potion of Speed would probably see some use against some of the more killy opponents.

Other than that, I'm just curious why you have the Hex scroll. It seems decent, but does it perform worth its points? I've always found the Feedback scroll to be a little scarier, and the Silver Mirror is always nice.

Solid list, though.

@Boss & Warp - 4 Bret Knights + Muso it is!

@Warp - yeah, I need to work on making the Lord a bit more killy. I considered giving him the OgreBlade, but decided to be a bit more economical. The Birth-sword would definitely be a good choice...would just have to find 15 points for it.

What would you change about the BSB?

RE: Hex Scroll - in all honesty, I was just curious about using it once . Having never used it, thought it could be fun. I know a friend of mine had it used quite nastily against him (lost a lvl4 Lord of Change to a well-timed Hex Scroll + Terradon rock-drop), so I kind of wanted to give it a try. I'm not married to the item, though, and definitely would consider the Silver Mirror or Feedback Scroll in its place.

Jin wrote:@Warp - yeah, I need to work on making the Lord a bit more killy. I considered giving him the OgreBlade, but decided to be a bit more economical. The Birth-sword would definitely be a good choice...would just have to find 15 points for it.

What would you change about the BSB?

10 point fear sword on the BSB and some change from the ground up 5th peg? Or downgrading the hex scroll.

I still like the possibilities of the toad scroll, with manipulating the stat nerf part of it. If you get dwellers there's your insta-gib, otherwise I don't think you have too many other Eevil Tricks to take advantage of most toad-ed wizards. The LoC example is a good one though, certainly does terrible things to lone casters!

- Salvage

The scroll seems a solid choice, then. Especially if you put both your Damsels onto one Lore (do they even have a choice, by the way?).

I'd keep my BSB as survivable as possible, which might also mean being very killy (dead enemies can't kill you, etc.). Any way you want to do that. Charmed Shield is the obvious choice.

And one archer or man-at-arms would give you enough for the Birthsword, right?

BSB's cant take anything other than a horse.
At all.
Ever.

@jono - you're right. Just re-read the BSB blurb and they don't have the 'non-magical equipment' disclaimer after all. Well that's just plain dumb. At least Virtues aren't technically equipment.

@Warp - I'm considering running both Damsels as Lore of Beasts (+1 to cast on Cav is always nice and the Signature Spell is actually pretty decent, albeit sort of at a High casting value; I can pretty much only choose Life or Beasts for them, btw).

None of thoes GW-weilding mounted crazies in there? I have no idea what they're called... questing knights, maybe?

I like it, but wonder if you could get away with dropping the paladin for MOAR knights . I have a single bret knight you can have, too...

RiTides wrote:I have a single bret knight you can have, too...

You should paint it up and send it to Mike, instead

@Jonolikespie: You mean mundane equipment, right (I hope the Brettonian FaQ isn't that weird)?

Technically he's right (it doesn't specify non-magical)....but, that's a topic for YMDC, conveniently with a new thread there: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/343990.page

Here's a thought for your Peg knights: drop one and use the points to get your KG Paladin a Pegasus. He can be their 5th man for great justice, and if your opponent has a lot of monsters can break off and torpedo them with his Heroic KB. Watching Once Bitten's battle reports he does this with his lord, and it is pretty effective it seems.

Nice list though. I was thinking a level 4 would be worthwhile, since both beast and life are awesome and power dice are a little scarce, but I like the extra paladins for heroic ballad goodness.

As RiTides pointed out, you don't have questing knights.
Get some.
I've only used them 2 or 3 times now but so far they have always preformed better than my grail knights.

jonolikespie wrote:BSB's cant take anything other than a horse.
At all.
Ever.

BSBs can explicitly ride a Pegasus. They are allowed a magic banner of any points if they take no magic equipment (explicit), or magic items if they take no magic banner (strongly impied - it doesn't say a BSB cannot, where a paladin clearly can take magic items).

BSBs are explicitly allowed to take a virtue of any cost, regardless of the cost of a magic banner.

Alright, updated the list with various recommendations:

LORDS
Bret Lord - 235
Virtue of Confidence, Gauntlet of the Duel, Gromril Great Helm, Birth-sword of Carcassone, Lance, Shield, Barded Bret Warhorse

HEROES
Paladin - 119
BSB, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Shrieking Blade, Barded Warhorse

Paladin - 134
Virtue of Heroism, Dragonhelm, Questing Vow, Shield, Barded Warhorse

Damsel - 140
Lvl2, Warhorse, Dispel Scroll (Beasts)

Damsel - 165
Lvl2, Warhorse, Sivejer's Hex Scroll (Or Feedback Scroll or Silver Mirror) (Beasts)


CORE
10x Knights of the Realm - 274
Full Command, Banner of Swiftness

10x Knights of the Realm - 274
Full Command, Banner of Chalon

40x Men-at-Arms - 215
Muso, Standard

30x Peasant Archers - 190
Muso, Brazier


SPECIAL
4x Pegasus Knights - 230
Gallant, Muso

5x Mounted Yeoman - 82
Muso

8x Questing Knights - 261
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame


RARE
2x Field Trebuchet - 180

TOTAL 2499


So, 3rd unit of Knights of the Realm have been 'upgraded' to Questing Knights, along with the KB Paladin. Presumably, they'll hunt big things. No special weapons on this guy (partially because he can't) since I'd be hoping the KB does its magic.

Peg Knights are now at 4-strong with a musician, which should make for a nice, fast, hard-hitting disruption unit.

Peasant Bowmen now have flaming attacks for even more, "Screw you, regen" action.

BSB just dropped the lance he's not allowed to take. I like the idea of having one Fear-causing/Fear-immune unit.

Bret Lord has the Birth-sword to make him just a little bit more of a pain in the ass in Challenges.

I'd try to fit in the Tress of hitting on 2+ on the KB hero, to give you a little bit better chance of nabbing that 6 to wound. I'm also really not thrilled by his S4 (no great weapon even), but I guess HKB is entirely the name of the game there.

Good stuff otherwise, looks to be very very functional. And have I mentioned how much I love me some beasts magic? Gads I wish any of my armies could take it

- Salvage

Hrm. That's not a bad option and I suppose the loss of the extra armor and Ward vs. Fire isn't so bad. I suppose I could drop the Shrieking Blade from the BSB to make it happen.

I do agree that Lore of Beasts would probably be quite nice for these guys. That +1 to cast on Cav seems like a nice way to offset the lack of a Prophetess.

Someone at my local store gave me the idea of running a Lord with Virtue of Heroism, Sword of Strife, Gauntlet of Duel, and Potion of speed. The Bretonnia FAQ changed virtue of heroism so magical weapons are allowed now. So taking a character with WS6 and 4 attacks and add 2 more attacks from sword of strife will almost always make for a dead challenger. This combination would make for a great hunter of pretty much anything if on a Pegasus or just keep him with a large knight unit.

NewDeal wrote:The Bretonnia FAQ changed virtue of heroism so magical weapons are allowed now.

Ahhhhhhhhhh so. In which case I'd also suggest the Heartwood Lance for rerolling your wounds (either tress or heartwood though, both don't fit on the dude). Sword of strife ain't bad either, as far as loading your probability with a single item goes (and could combine with tress for extra nastiness / expensiveness).

- Salvage

Wait....Question:

Is the Paladin limit:

1) Virtue + Magic Items <= 50 points, OR

2) Virtue + 50 points of Magic Items.


I've been reading it as 1).

IIRC its worded so that its 50pts of any combination. So a 20pt virtue leaves you 30pts for magic items.

That's what I figured. Which means no Tress of 2+ hitting.

Incidentally - what's peoples' opinions of M@A weapons? Halberds or Spears? I'm inclined to think that the spears will prove more useful just through sheer quantity of attacks (could theoretically run them in Horde).

Wow is Virtue of HKB expensive! Nevermind then, I guess everything I was suggesting will have to wait for your HKB lord build

- Salvage

The HKB virtue is 40 points. Its better on a lord over a paladin imo.

I'll generally agree with that. Same goes for the Virtue of Confidence.

I don't know, though...with how easily characters die in 8th, keeping the Killing Blow cheap and hoping for the best might not be a bad idea.

I would imagine it sort of depends on what you want to accomplish. Having HKB on a Lord would be best if you want to single out enemy Heroes and knock them out. I envisioned the HKB Paladin to be more of a monster-hunter (since they seem so damn prevalent these days) who can additionally intimidate enemy characters (though probably not really-tooled up ones).

May play around with Virtue of Heroism on the Lord, though it does make him a bit more vulnerable.

What about HKB on a lord with Sword of Swift striking? ASF getting rerolls and making certain you smack the beast/bitch first might really help.