Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Their fluff isn't all that great. the primarch's only real claim to fame seems to be finding the emperor (and backing down like a punk to the Ultramarines guy). and maybe he was really good at building walls.

but other than that, the only thing that really makes them stand out to me are the fact that they stopped caring about troop limits. their combat style isnt that original and they aren't even a founding chapter.


in short, i can't figure out why they got their own codex. they dont stand out like the other chapters with teir own codex.


Grimaldus is pretty cool though.

The different codeci are meant to represent different organisational structure e.g. Black Templars and Space Wolves use their copy of the codex for toilet paper
However that kinda went down the drain when GW started making codeci for every other chapter as well.
Also the Black Templars are pretty cool imo

Black Templars are awesome! If it wasn't for Rogal Dorn than Horus would of destroyed the imperial palace, some-one needs to look up their fluff me thinks The BT are one of the few chapters that don't follow the Codex, placing massive squads of tactical marines mixed in with new initiates on the field and go around the universe on crusuades Tis the life they were also the first chapter to have the LRC

They got their own codex because alot of players like them, including myself, and they are a far cry from the standard codex-adherant chapter.

Players like them, for the most part, because they're the bloodthirsty fanatics. They're the Astartes that never stopped crusading, that still adhere to the rulings of the Council of Nikea on psykers, that constantly fulfill the 'primary directive', 'Suffer not the alien, the mutant, the heretic'. They walk up to Orks and punch them in the face because they can.

They'd rather go kill the xenos than protect the citizens like other chapters, and that's why players love them.

No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!

The Black Templars were the more zealous of the Imperial Fists, who followed Sigismund, the first Emperors Champion, on a never ending crusade. In Horus Rising, Sigismund actually states to the Captains of the Luna Wolves that the great crusade will never end, and that the Imperium will always be at war. As such the Black Templars still live on in the spirit of the great Crusade, adhering to the Council of Nikea(no psykers), and killing everything that isn't a mutant or loyal to the Emperor.

The last time I saw someone using a Black Templars army IRL was at least two years ago. Maybe they need a new FAQ or something but they've never been popular around here. I always thought their organization was unnecessarily wierd. Not wierdly powerful like some other offshoot chapter books, just, wierd like different for the sake of being different. I never understood the initiate thing, but I guess that warrants an entirely separate Codex. Makes me feel sorry for Khan that he didn't get a book and they did.

The Templars are the scary zealots among the space marines, and that means a lot considering what normal space marines are like. There's a certain alluring purity of purpose behind the chapter. Of all of the marines they have fully embraced their doom to an existence of violence and death in the Emperor's name.

The initiate thing struck me as a perfectly reasonable way to deal with the scouts issue. Everyone else (except Space Wolves, yes) takes their least experienced and most vulnerable warriors and sends them out away from the rest of the chapter on dangerous but vital recon missions that real life armies use elite special forces for. Templars introduce their new warriors to combat by having them fight alongside experienced battle brothers.

Yeah but how does that fit in with the overly-zealous, psykically suspicious bloodthirsty crusader thing? It doesn't seem related at all to the theme of the army, just this oddity that could have been given as a variance to any chapter for whatever reason. I guess it's like some of the things in their FOC and their list support their nature and make at least a bit of sense of why it differs from a regular Chapter, but why them for the Initiates thing? What does how they train their novices have to do with their irrational hatred of xenos? I'm not saying its a contradictory thing (like Long Fangs being somehow MORE disciplined with their fire than Ultramarines), its just an unrelated thing (like all blood angels are good mechanics so they have better engines and flying tanks).

Partly it goes hand in hand with rejecting codex. Space Wolves are the other notable non-codex guys and they do it differently too. In specific it echoes the old style relationship between knight and squire. The name Black Templars is of course in reference to the Knights Templar. The historical Knights Templar weren't actually organized that way, nor were many other knights, but what matters here is that this sort of thing is associated with knights and the Black Templars are meant to be more strongly reminiscent of knighthood than other Space Marines.

I think it would make more sense to have an imperial fist codex, and have crimson fists and black templar use that codex instead of the vanilla marine codex.

But the Imperial Fists were such staunch sidekicks to Guilleman when he wrote his "Book of Counting to Ten". You want a Codex that exactly follows the Ultramarines, but has two special characters that allow diverse force orgs, and has different fluff stories and art in the first half? I think the Fists are in the SM Codex precisely because they were perfect adherents to Guilleman's new order.

You have to love BTs cos there the space marine equivalent of the badass cop who doesn't follow the rules while ultramarines are the uptight, by-the-books, possibly a little nerdy cop.
Also there was a comic were a BT marine was ripped in half by a wraithlord and the scout he was training is just like "am I supposed to be afraid? Come here and I'll give you something to be afraid of" and rushes it with a knife.

I know that cop. He gave me a ticket for "loitering" when I was waiting for a ride. He knew he was full of gak but wrote the ticket anyway, and told me "try to appeal it? you want to know how many times that works? none!"

I don't have to love him at all for it.

i guess i get that they are supposed to be more hardcore crusader types than the rest of the chapters, but they dont really come across as any more insane or fundamentalist than the other chapters (they are all pretty much religious nuts). the neophytes and sword brethren additions seem to be minor deviations to me, not some complete rejection of Guilleman. they could have done a lot more to set them apart.

Black Templars are great and I know more BT players than Eldar or IG players.

Thaanos wrote:The Black Templars were the more zealous of the Imperial Fists, who followed Sigismund, the first Emperors Champion, on a never ending crusade. In Horus Rising, Sigismund actually states to the Captains of the Luna Wolves that the great crusade will never end, and that the Imperium will always be at war. As such the Black Templars still live on in the spirit of the great Crusade, adhering to the Council of Nikea(no psykers), and killing everything that is a mutant or disoyal to the Emperor.

Fixed for you

The whole Neophyte with Initiate makes sense in my head at least. While this probably wasn't more common with 'crusader' knights knights back in the day took on squires that the knight would train to one day become a knight himself.

So yknow it kinda goes hang in hang like that. It never really struck me as random.

EDIT: And besides that deviation they're also between 4,000 to 6,000 strong rather than 1,000 marines like other chapters.

Even their squads ate put together differently. The Templars organize into squads based on camaraderie rather than organized structure.

To the OP - since you seem to hate BT so much, which chapters would you have preferred to see get codexes?

How the man cannot love them.
- They are on the eternal Crusade.
- They are Legion for themselves.
- They always rush to help.
- Their fighting style is one of the most successful in Space Marine fighting doctrines.
- They rarely lose and conflict.

The only thing that I don't know about them is their actual strength. I think they have more marines than just 5 - 6000.

Well lets put it this way - if the Black Templars ever DID go rogue, it would take more than a few chapters to stop them.

I'm literally perplexed as to the OP's hate for the BT's. They are such a fun and different army to other MEQ armies out there.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think it would make more sense to have an imperial fist codex, and have crimson fists and black templar use that codex instead of the vanilla marine codex.

Why? Imperial fists like siege warfare, so lots of armor like Vinidcators. Crimson Fists hate Orks, so lots of template weapons. Yeah, I could see how these builds would be significantly different from anything else a vanilla Space Marine chapter would bring... Oh, wait, no, this is very similar to many vanilla Marine armies... Never mind...

liam0404 wrote:To the OP - since you seem to hate BT so much, which chapters would you have preferred to see get codexes?

change up the Salamanders (heavy weapons) or White Scars (though their fast attack stuff would be similar to the Ravenwing probably). but to be honest, there are too many already.

The blood Angels have tainted geneseed, The Dark Angels have their secret mission, The Wolves are Space Vikings... In contrast the
The Black Templars are just kinda disorganized and lame

it would be cool if they were declared excommunicae and plunged the galaxy into a big civil war. their numbers would be a huge problem for the empire.

yeenoghu wrote:Maybe they need a new FAQ or something

Said FAQ made them a lot more viable on the table then they up until recently were.

I like the models and Iconography myself. Having your weapon chained to you is a pretty sweet look imo.

mrsmith wrote:

liam0404 wrote:To the OP - since you seem to hate BT so much, which chapters would you have preferred to see get codexes?

change up the Salamanders (heavy weapons) or White Scars (though their fast attack stuff would be similar to the Ravenwing probably). but to be honest, there are too many already.

The blood Angels have tainted geneseed, The Dark Angels have their secret mission, The Wolves are Space Vikings... In contrast the
The Black Templars are just kinda disorganized and lame

it would be cool if they were declared excommunicae and plunged the galaxy into a big civil war. their numbers would be a huge problem for the empire.

So the fact that they were one of the main chapters during the third war for armageddon doesn't count for anything? And also "beng space vikings" is lame justification. The space wolves are cool, but your reasona s to why they are superior is not.

It could just as easily have been the salamanders getting their own codex, if that had been the case, the templars would likely be in the SM codex now, while the Salamanders had theirs. Both had the same chance to get a codex, it was just fortunate GW decided to do BT.

liam0404 wrote:

mrsmith wrote:

liam0404 wrote:To the OP - since you seem to hate BT so much, which chapters would you have preferred to see get codexes?

change up the Salamanders (heavy weapons) or White Scars (though their fast attack stuff would be similar to the Ravenwing probably). but to be honest, there are too many already.

The blood Angels have tainted geneseed, The Dark Angels have their secret mission, The Wolves are Space Vikings... In contrast the
The Black Templars are just kinda disorganized and lame

it would be cool if they were declared excommunicae and plunged the galaxy into a big civil war. their numbers would be a huge problem for the empire.

So the fact that they were one of the main chapters during the third war for armageddon doesn't count for anything?

in the grim darkness of the future, there is only war. so no

And also "beng space vikings" is lame justification. The space wolves are cool, but your reasona s to why they are superior is not.

thats pretty good justification to me. they stand out. They have a theme. Templars don't.

Well that's in your (incorrect) opinion. I think that a chapter who is so zealous that nothing can stand up to them in a fight is pretty cool. They also forbid having devastator squads, such is their fervour to fight.

They also purge psykers and sorcerers in accordance with the original Emperor's decree, going so far as to exclude Librarians from their ranks.

If you think the initiate/neophyte thing doesn't make them stand out, well that says a lot for your abiity to recognise when something is a bit different. Its so reflective to medieval knights and squires. You say space wolves are space vikings, well black templars are space knights by that definition.

I think that's quite a lot of character don't you?

EDITED: actually, i do think the Knight/Crusader thing is cool, but space marines are already crusaders anyway. BTs are just slightly more insane about it. I think the BTs could be cool, they dont really add anything.

...Jeez trolling much?

Up until you said Black TEMPLARS don't have a theme I thought you were serious.

EDIT: Ah, ninjad me by 30 seconds.

But thats the thing though - they are continuing the great crusade that started way before the horus heresy. What couldn't be more crusading than that?

I'm assuming that the space wolves are your favourites - but to me they are portrayed as rough wildmen as opposed to the emperor's chosen warriors.

Dark Angels would proabably be my favorite, though i'm not too stuck on any one chapter.

The BTs are basically regular space marines, only more XXX-TREME!!! Space Marines hate stuff, BTs hate them more. Space Marines fight on distant planets for the Emperor, BTs do it so hard they dont even keep a home base! Space marines are roaming gangs of religious fundamentalists, but BTs make them seem like puny atheists!

actually as i type that, i'm starting to like them a little more.