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Hi all!

Looking at making an IG take-all-comers battleforce, totalling around 2000 pts and looking for input on where I'm missing something, and what else to add, as at last count, I was still short ~60 points.

The intention with this army is to whittle away with the artillery and longer-range weaponary, once slightly dispersed through movement phase to send in the Valk/Vendetta combo, disembark the 2x squads of Veterans with Meltas to take down as many heavier vehicles as possible with the powerfists and meltas, and demo packs.

Hydra is anti-skimmer defense, as well as anti-horde in a pinch.

1x Company Command Squad
+1 Vox-caster (do I need this for CCS?) - 55pts

1x Platoon Command Squad
+1 Vox-caster - 35pts

- Infantry Squad A
+1 Vox
+1 Grenade Launcher - 60 pts

- Infantry Squad B
+1 Vox
+1 Flamer - 60 pts

- Heavy Weapons Squad A
+1 Vox
+3 Mortar - 65 pts



1x Platoon Command Squad
+1 Vox - 35pts

- Infantry Squad C
+1 Vox
+1 Grenade Launcher - 60pts

- Infantry Squad D
+1 Vox
+1 Flamer - 60pts


2x Veteran Squads
+6 Meltas
+2 Sgt. w/ Powerfist
+2 Demolitions Doctrines - 290pts

5x Chimeras
+5 Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubber - 275pts

1x Hellhound w/ Inferno Cannon
+1 Advice for Hull Weapon? - 130pts

1x Valkyrie Troop Transport
+1 Multi-Laser
+1 Rocket Pod (is this the one with multiple shots for blast template suited for massed infantry?) - 130pts

1x Vendetta Gunship
+1 Twin-linked lascannon
+2 Twin-linked lascannons - 130pts

1x Leman Russ Demolisher
+1 Heavy Bolter - 165pts

2x Hydra Flak Tanks
+2 Heavy Bolter - 150pts

1x Medusa Siege Cannon
+1 Heavy Bolter - 135pts

1X Basilisk Earthshaker Cannon
+1 Heavy Bolter - 125pts

where can i tighten up my list or what needs to change?

everytime I read the word "Valkyrie" in an army list I just want to vomit all over myself. Upgrade that piece to a vendetta always... 30 points for 3 twin-linked lascannons is simply too good, too powerful to pass up.

Basilisk and Medusa's are gak compared to manticores

dude, are you going to put your troops in those 5x chimeras? I certainly hope so... remember your CCS has a BS of 4. they would be a complete waste if you don't mount them in a chimera and give them 4 plasma guns






Automatically Appended Next Post:
your list has extremely low firepower.... get special weapons in those chimeras

It doesn't look legal - the HWS cannot take a vox and you have 4 heavy support.

It's easier for us if you indicate who's getting the boats.

I think you should arm your regulars, especially the command squads. How are you going to 'whittle away from range' when you don't have any heavy weapons but morts? The vets are a bit over-upgraded imo - I'd lose the fists. Orders aren't critical, so I'd drop the vox network.

I've been liking the HB hull on the HH. I'm usually shooting at infantry, and it has the range to keep up to the inferno.

Who goes where? Are you combining infantry squads? We need more information ...

Cheers for the help so far.

The Veteran squads are meant to be on the boats as fast-deploy anti-armour/hard to kill hunters.

There's only 1 Heavy Weapon squad of 3 mortars, not 4. Unsure if I've written that wrong, my apologies. Could this be better swapped out to another heavy weapon squad (missiles?)?

In regards to the CCS in Chimera and deploying them with plasma, am I missing something? They can't fire from the vehicle can they?

The last point, can you outline the benefits to the Manticore compared to Basilisk or Medusa combo?

I should probably point out I'm new to IG units and tactica and armour abilities, so please feel free to tear it apart and rebuild it. I've only just started playing 40K after a long hiatus, so the nuances of different units are still lost to me atm.

Well you're in the right place. The error I was referring to was not 4 mortars but 4 heavy support choices: LRD, Basilisk, Medusa, and Hydra squadron. You can only take 3 heavy support. The problem with the mortars is that a HWS cannot take a vox.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And ya with the chimera 5 models can fire from the hatch - perfect for command squads with 4 specials.

murdog wrote:Well you're in the right place. The error I was referring to was not 4 mortars but 4 heavy support choices: LRD, Basilisk, Medusa, and Hydra squadron. You can only take 3 heavy support. The problem with the mortars is that a HWS cannot take a vox.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And ya with the chimera 5 models can fire from the hatch - perfect for command squads with 4 specials.

If Basilisk and Medusa are part of the same ordnance battery then they only count as one HS slot.

Yes, chimeras allow special weapons to shoot. If you are going fully mech, then drop infantry squads and update to vets with 3*plasma or 3*melta. No need for voxes at all if all troops are in chimeras and drop doctrines and power fists (you don't want them in CC). Also, CCS needs full special weapons load out.

Not sure of exact points costs from swapping, but you will likely need to find a few points for the upgrades, so lose the stubbers on chimeras.

Ahhh yes, was thinking manticore. But I don't think a bassy/medusa squadron would be very efficient, given their respective ranges.

CCS and both PCS are a waste as doing nothing besides taking points and filling FOC slots; add some wargear to them!

You don't need a power fist on Guard squads as they do not last in combat. ONly take a power weapon and that's when you have mass Platoons.

All tanks should have hull flamers btw

Valkyrie is alright but I do find Vendettas to be better.

Basilisks aren't the best, if you want something all round go for a Manticore Rocket Launcher.

Cheers for the input so far, all.

I've dropped the stubbers, have hull-mounted flamers and bolter turrets as standard on all the Chims.

Upgraded the CCS to 4x Plasma, PCS to 4x Plasma in both for the veterans, and the actual Vet squads to be loaded into the skyboats, I've changed to 3x Melta, 3x Plasma, dropped the voxes for all units.

Valk has been upgraded to the Vendetta, dropped the Basilisk and Medusa and picked up a Manticore instead.

This seems to be the main things you all seem to be agreed upon, so I think now's the time to pick up the individual squads/boxes when I get back home (currently in a different state for a few months for work) now I've got something in mind to work towards.

But is there anything I've missed or worse, misunderstood that could be improved upon? Should I drop the Demolitions Doctrine on the Vets and get another 20 pts to work with? That'd leave me at 1965pts total, leaving open the possibility of advisors for the CCS - are they worth it?

Only one thing I'd not recommend PCS with 4 plasma as they're only BS3. They're good with flamers though IMO.


For advisers Astropath is totally worth it if you are running reserves. Officer of the Fleet is not really much worth it unless your enemies are heavy on reserves might come in handy though. MoO can only shoot his ordnance if he didn't move so I'm of really a fan.

Drop the voxes, they aren't useful in a mech list.

Drop the doctrines and the p.fists on the vets. These guys should have 3 melta or 3 plasma and ride in a chimera.

Valks are not bad, don't mind the hate. In a list that has a lot of AT in other slots, Valks are great for AI. Vendettas are fantastic though for some AT firepower at a really low price.

Bassies are great tanks for their points. They can fire directly or indirectly, have excellent range and hitting power. I still use one frequently, just don't put them in a squadron with a medusa as others have said. Take a single Bassie or a Manticore or a Medusa. Griffons are also awesome, a squad of 2 is only 150, very accurate and good against light mech and infantry.

Hydras are awesome.

Your Russ looks great.

As others have said, put 4 flamers on the PCS squads and they ride in Chimeras. Put 4 melta or plasma on the CCS for going after tanks or give them a l.cannon or a.cannon and have them sit back and give out orders while shooting out the back of their chimera.

The mortar HWS isn't that hot. It isn't bad, but for a few more points you can get an A.Cannon HWS which is the hawtness.

The infantry squads work best when blobbed up. Add a commissar and now they are incredibly hard to break. Give them some auto cannons and one order from a CCS or PCS affects them all. 20-30 work great for sitting on objectives.

When going after objectives, a blob of 20-30 with flamers or meltas and power weapons on sarges and the commissar make them really effective at assaulting and at aggressively going out and taking objectives.

Good luck with the army! Post an updated list when you have a sec.

Lots of things to consider there, hopefully I can round it out with all the solid advice.

Especially thanks for breaking down the "whys" of your choices, Reecius - much appreciated to get my head around why others suggested what they did.

I'll spend some time pointing up 2-3 different versions of what you lot said and see how it turns out.

I'm pretty happy to see that the general tactics for the army stayed (somewhat) intact. From what everyone's said so far and the uses for the units I thought too risky, I was probably playing a fairly defensive army, so maybe this can make things a bit more of an even playing field for a take-all-comers army.

Hi folks, I'm looking at sorting out my IG army as it's a bit noobish and I'm struggling to beat my mates DE. I've read pretty similar tactics on several forums now. Can you just clarify exactly what you mean by "table my opponent"? It's looking like Vets in Chims are the way forward over regular infantry platoons?

Also, where do people get all these Hydras from? They all come from Forgeworld?!

crowtribe wrote:Cheers for the input so far, all.

I've dropped the stubbers, have hull-mounted flamers and bolter turrets as standard on all the Chims.

No no no. Multilaser / Heavy Flamer is always the way to go on Chimeras. Multilaser over the bolter anyday, they're just to versatile (can deal with both infantry and light armor) to give up and are much better at killing marines. Heavy Bolters are really kinda...well....not useful.

Upgraded the CCS to 4x Plasma, PCS to 4x Plasma in both for the veterans, and the actual Vet squads to be loaded into the skyboats, I've changed to 3x Melta, 3x Plasma, dropped the voxes for all units.

Plasma is a bit of a waste on the PCS IMO. BS3 really doesn't make good use of them considering how expensive plasma is.

But is there anything I've missed or worse, misunderstood that could be improved upon? Should I drop the Demolitions Doctrine on the Vets and get another 20 pts to work with? That'd leave me at 1965pts total, leaving open the possibility of advisors for the CCS - are they worth it?

Can be useful, but not needed. If you don't have anything better to spend the points on, go nuts. How many melta squads is this by the way? At 2000 points, I'd suggest at least 4 or 5, though more would be better. At 2000 points I'd want about 10 different ways to deal with vehicles if at all possible.

Could you make a new post or edit the OP to reflect the new list?

Thanks!

jjakaalbinoboy wrote:Hi folks, I'm looking at sorting out my IG army as it's a bit noobish and I'm struggling to beat my mates DE. I've read pretty similar tactics on several forums now. Can you just clarify exactly what you mean by "table my opponent"? It's looking like Vets in Chims are the way forward over regular infantry platoons?

'Table' means that you either wipe out the entirety of the opponents army or force them to surrender before the game ends.

Also, where do people get all these Hydras from? They all come from Forgeworld?!

Forgeworld, independents companies with conversion kits (easy to find), or just convert/build your own.

This is a Hydra.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Imperial_Guard_Tanks/HYDRA-FLAK-TANK-COMPLETE-KIT_.html

Reecius posted great points.

Based on the upgrades you've done so far you should be all set. The Manticore is a beast and Chimera Vets are amazing.

GJ upgrading the Valk to the Vendetta but expect both of those to be completely taken out on the first turn. Mine never make it past turn 2. So you'll need your vets and CCS's to be anti vehicle.

The hellhound is great, you can stick a hull mounted flamer on it but honestly the inferno cannon is amazing.

The one thing I would change if you can since you have some point room is to drop the mortar HWS. I would upgrade them to AC or Lascannons to help with anti-armor and long range fire support. you dont have redundancy with them so they will be eliminated early anyway.

Yeah I was more looking for where else I could get Hydras. As £43 each is a bit steep imho.

Could you point me towards any independents companies with conversion kits (easy to find) as I had a quick look and can't see any?

I "discovered" on my skin that a good Guard List can't go out without:

- Psyker Battle Squad (9+1) + Chimera (MultiLaser+HFlamer)

- 2x Manticore (some club friends say + Camo Netting, i'm not that convinced but it could be good)

- 3x Vendetta + MeltaVet embarked

If you add a CCS (+ some MeltaGuns or Plasma Guns), you're quite near 1500 points. You can throw in a juicy Leman Russ (Executioner?) or maybe another Manticore, and some other juice just to play the models you like the best...the core is well covered, I suppose.


PS: at PuppetsWar.com you can find a Set Called Cerberus Heavy Weapon Platform. 2X Autocannonz, 2X Missile launcher. With some Chimera bases, you can easily magnetize or simply gently add them to your Chimeras to convert them into Manticores, Hydras and such^^

jjakaalbinoboy

I have just finished a Hydra conversion. It was quite simple and worked out much cheaper than the Forgeworld.

1. I got a Basilisk from ebay (for about £12) and paint stripped it and removed the Basilisk Earthshaker cannon.
2. I bought the Aegis Defence Line (20% off) for £12.40 from here: http://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk/product_details.php?subId=127&pId=190
3. I used the twin-linked Autocannons from the Aegis Defence Line, but got the ink cartridges you get in biro pens to make the barelles longer like this guy did: http://admiraldrax.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/199-hydra-from-aegis-conversion-details.html
4. Finally, I just glued the autocannons base to where the basilisk cannon was.

Job done.

I personally use valks over vendettas. With missile pods and a nose gun they can out flanks and fire everything well still dropping off any melta vets to nuke tanks anyways. Sure three twin linked las cannons are good but from what I have seen both types have their uses. If you have little anti tank pick vendettas. If you need more Pie plates take valks with missile pods.

FifteenHours wrote:jjakaalbinoboy

I have just finished a Hydra conversion. It was quite simple and worked out much cheaper than the Forgeworld.

1. I got a Basilisk from ebay (for about £12) and paint stripped it and removed the Basilisk Earthshaker cannon.
2. I bought the Aegis Defence Line (20% off) for £12.40 from here: http://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk/product_details.php?subId=127&pId=190
3. I used the twin-linked Autocannons from the Aegis Defence Line, but got the ink cartridges you get in biro pens to make the barelles longer like this guy did: http://admiraldrax.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/199-hydra-from-aegis-conversion-details.html
4. Finally, I just glued the autocannons base to where the basilisk cannon was.

Job done.

Do you have any pics of the Hydra mate?

OK, army list so far . . .

HQ: Company Command Squad (305 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad, (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Company Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . [b]1 Astropath
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Master of Ordnance
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (655 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)

Troops: Veteran Squad (215 pts)
. . 7 Veteran Squad (Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannon)
. . . . 1 Veteran Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel Squadron (225 pts)
. . 1 Armoured Sentinel Squadron
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (130 pts)
. . 1 Hydra Flak Tank Battery
. . . . 1 Hydra Flak Tank (Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Hunter-killer Missile; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (210 pts)
. . 1 Leman Russ Squadron
. . . . 1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (215 pts)
. . 1 Manticore Rocket Launcher (Hull Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Total Roster Cost: 1,955 pts

Thoughts? Feedback? Got 45pts to play with, was wondering if I should take the Chimera off the two Infantry Squads in the Platoon and buy another Veteran Squad in Chimera? Then I could use the two footslogger squads as bubble wrap?

crowtribe wrote:Hi all!

Looking at making an IG take-all-comers battleforce, totalling around 2000 pts and looking for input on where I'm missing something, and what else to add, as at last count, I was still short ~60 points.

where can i tighten up my list or what needs to change?

1. you need to give command squads big weapons to take advantage of their BS 4. give them plasma or meltaguns.

2. your heavy weapons team is useless and a waste of 60 points. change them to lascannons or missile launchers MUCH better mortars are good for nothing. also get another heavy weapons team it is awsome having 6 missle launchers fireing in a turn. even 9 if you can squeeze some points out of your over priced vets.

3. your vets dont need powerfists power weapons at the most...

4. you dont need to transport a squad of 10 guys up close if their only purpose is to use a power fist or somthing the guard are shoty and i see transports as a pointless thing for a shoty army. guard should always play the defense IMO so set all your guardsmen up 24 inch out get 40-50 shots of lasguns use your orders to double that and combine the squads up. let yours vechiles shoot vechiles

5. yeah its late i cant be bothered spelling

jjakaalbinoboy wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:jjakaalbinoboy

I have just finished a Hydra conversion. It was quite simple and worked out much cheaper than the Forgeworld.

1. I got a Basilisk from ebay (for about £12) and paint stripped it and removed the Basilisk Earthshaker cannon.
2. I bought the Aegis Defence Line (20% off) for £12.40 from here: http://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk/product_details.php?subId=127&pId=190
3. I used the twin-linked Autocannons from the Aegis Defence Line, but got the ink cartridges you get in biro pens to make the barelles longer like this guy did: http://admiraldrax.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/199-hydra-from-aegis-conversion-details.html
4. Finally, I just glued the autocannons base to where the basilisk cannon was.

Job done.

Do you have any pics of the Hydra mate?

I might soon. Keep an eye out.

spaceXjam wrote:

crowtribe wrote:Hi all!

Looking at making an IG take-all-comers battleforce, totalling around 2000 pts and looking for input on where I'm missing something, and what else to add, as at last count, I was still short ~60 points.

where can i tighten up my list or what needs to change?

1. you need to give command squads big weapons to take advantage of their BS 4. give them plasma or meltaguns.

2. your heavy weapons team is useless and a waste of 60 points. change them to lascannons or missile launchers MUCH better mortars are good for nothing. also get another heavy weapons team it is awsome having 6 missle launchers fireing in a turn. even 9 if you can squeeze some points out of your over priced vets.

3. your vets dont need powerfists power weapons at the most...

4. you dont need to transport a squad of 10 guys up close if their only purpose is to use a power fist or somthing the guard are shoty and i see transports as a pointless thing for a shoty army. guard should always play the defense IMO so set all your guardsmen up 24 inch out get 40-50 shots of lasguns use your orders to double that and combine the squads up. let yours vechiles shoot vechiles

5. yeah its late i cant be bothered spelling

The point of transports isn't to get the squishy guardsmen into combat, its too keep them alive longer. Bolters would tear apart Guardsment but struggle against AV12 front armour of a Chimera or even AV10 of its side/rear armour.

spaceXjam wrote:

crowtribe wrote:Hi all!

Looking at making an IG take-all-comers battleforce, totalling around 2000 pts and looking for input on where I'm missing something, and what else to add, as at last count, I was still short ~60 points.

where can i tighten up my list or what needs to change?

3. your vets dont need powerfists power weapons at the most...

4. you dont need to transport a squad of 10 guys up close if their only purpose is to use a power fist or somthing the guard are shoty and i see transports as a pointless thing for a shoty army. guard should always play the defense IMO so set all your guardsmen up 24 inch out get 40-50 shots of lasguns use your orders to double that and combine the squads up. let yours vechiles shoot vechiles

Man, while powerfist could be a good idea to stop a Dreadnought about thinking to crash and eat the poor unit, a single power weapon will make: 1) Him Laugh 2) Your opponent Laugh 3) Your squad assaulted. Power fist could be a good "deterrent", even if i don't usually take it (because of the points!).

The idea behind transporting your squad is that a chimera has a AV12 front, and protect our fragile Vets from templates, pies and S6+ weapons (instadeath!). Even more, Meltagun works the best when at close range, and reaching close range usually requires a Chimera or Vendetta (I still don't like Valkyrie, but it's up to personal choice!).