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Hi all, is it feasible to have a Wolf Guard in terminator armor with a Cyclone Missile launcher attached to a unit of long fangs? It gives 2 additional shots, fire can be split, and the unit would even be able to move and due to his relentless rule, you could still fire his two missile launcher shots, even if the rest of the unit can't. Plus, it does add an additional couple wounds and he can provide some close combat help as well. Thoughts? Should I add these in if/when I run SWs?

timetowaste85 wrote:Hi all, is it feasible to have a Wolf Guard in terminator armor with a Cyclone Missile launcher attached to a unit of long fangs? It gives 2 additional shots, fire can be split, and the unit would even be able to move and due to his relentless rule, you could still fire his two missile launcher shots, even if the rest of the unit can't. Plus, it does add an additional couple wounds and he can provide some close combat help as well. Thoughts? Should I add these in if/when I run SWs?

Yes, it is feasible, and generally not a poor idea.

No, he does not grant relentless to the unit.

No, he does not grant relentless to the unit.

Uhhm, he didn't say that either. He said that they could move and still benefit from some firepower due to the Wolf Guard's relentless, 2-shot missile.

As for the idea...It's decent I guess, most wolf lists want a unit of wolf guards and you COULD just throw him in. Let's pu it this way, there are worse things to spend points on.

It's a great way to get even more missiles in your Long Fang packs, best done at higher point levels, and gives the unit some respectable CC punch in the even that they get charged.

Not enough to hold off, say, a full Genestealer brood, but enough to finish off the weakened remnants of said unit.

it's nice to put a chainfist on him so you can put the unit in cover and if a podding walker rolls up on them the chain fist can get some attacks in and hopefully kill it.

Long fangs + cyclone termie WG is fun. It works just as described.

The problem is, if your army is not heavy on wolf guards, chances are, you'll probably have only 1 CML guy.

It is a good idea but only if the opportunity to use massed wolfguard on the list arises.

No. It's a horrible idea. He's better off with a bolt pistol and chainsword so he can get an extra cc attack.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! what's not to like. Do it man, and learn to love the look of hatred on all non-SW players you meet.

Thanks, glad to see I had a good idea with a codex that I really can't seem to enjoy, no matter how hard I try. I'm not big into the wild hair in power armor look, and the army feels...weird to me, but at least I can make something fun out of it. I know it'll make him expensive, but might not be a horrible idea to give him lightning claws too...or is that getting to be too much?

Well you can, but he is not likely to be using them much if you are using him right. I'd rather keep him away from assault if I were you, He's expensive because of the termie armor and cyclone, so use it, abuse it, fire him every turn if you can.

Good point. I was thinking the LCs in case they get charged, but chances are if they get charged they're probably toast anyway. Best to add that chainfist if anything, like what was mentioned before.

Personally, I wouldn't even want that. I rarely see a chainfist being used. They look cool, and they're cheap enough if there's nothing better to spend the points on, but if a squad of devastators needs to be charging a vehicle instead of just blasting it to pieces, then they seriously need to be rethought on if you are using them right in the first place.

Five points extra for a "free" kill point in a kill point game seems worth it to me

My local store runs a tourney where every set up/scenario is played and my friends prefer to play kill points instead of objective capturing in free-plays. So, the chainfist is a pretty healthy idea for 5 points (if it is 5 points extra like other SM armies-codex is lying a few feet away and I'm feeling lazy )

yeah but 1 chainfist attack plus 4 long fangs with ccw vs. a vehicle? or 6 krak missiles?

I'd put the LCs on him. It's only s few points more and adds a great deal of punch to the unit.

Also...it's 7 Krak Missiles.

yeenoghu wrote:yeah but 1 chainfist attack plus 4 long fangs with ccw vs. a vehicle? or 6 krak missiles?

True. But against A12 it might be worth it to take the guaranteed destruction vs the probable destruction. I'll toy around with it and see whether it's worth it or not

Actually building a 135pt unit of Wolf Guard just so you have a CML Terminator to stick in your Long Fangs Pack is very silly indeed.

If, however, you already have a unit of 4 Wolf Guards and you have the points available then not putting in the CML dude is equally silly. If you add the CML dude to the unit and have nowhere else to put him (because, for instance, your Troops are all mounted in Rhinos or whatever) then in with the Long Fangs is as good a place as any.

Alternatively you could run him on his own; if you stick him with the Fangs they get an extra 2 Missiles, but they can only split fire between two targets. If you run him on his own you still get the extra Missiles but you can stick them into a third target, and the Terminator also gives your opponent another nasty target to waste a whole units-worth of shooting on.

I thought that you could only run wolfguard in a squad or as a squad sgt, not on their own.......

If the squad is 5 strong and you send the other 4 away to lead squads, what happens to the 5th dude?

Does he:
a) explode
b) become the property of the opposing player
c) count as a single-model unit in his own right
d) grow to life size, become sentient and animate, and kill everyone in wolfy fury

Generally speaking I don't take Wolf Guard unless I'm planning to put them in squads.

If you have two long fang packs in your army, you could also put in a squad of ten wolf guard, split off two of them to get TDA/CML & lead the fangs, & then maybe use the 8 men in a rhino or drop pod as a combi-weapon brigade.

On a related note, you could make that unit even more obnoxious by attaching a Rune Priest. Theoretically 7 ML and d6 autocannon shots that can be divided between two targets. Expensive, but not a terrible place to put your psyker assuming you were already planning on fielding such a Longfang unit.

If you really want to blow some points you can go Logan, 4x MM, Drop Pod for some super nastyness...Logan CAN grant them Relentless and split fire with 4 MMs into rear armor is super nasty...perhaps still add in the WG w/ Cyclone.

Adding more stuff to a Long Fangs pack is the surest way to get it shot to pieces. Putting a Rune Priest and/ or Logan with them virtually guarantees it.

Lictor_Interdictor wrote:Adding more stuff to a Long Fangs pack is the surest way to get it shot to pieces. Putting a Rune Priest and/ or Logan with them virtually guarantees it.

Ah! Getting shot at it isn't always a bad thing.

I mean, look at vindicators, they are mostly a fear unit, that might shoot once and get obliterated, but you opponent can waste a lot of missile launcher shots shooting at it's front armour to kill it.

Lictor_Interdictor wrote:Adding more stuff to a Long Fangs pack is the surest way to get it shot to pieces. Putting a Rune Priest and/ or Logan with them virtually guarantees it.

Thereby allowing your TWC or Rhinos/Razorbacks full of Grey Hunters unfettered ability to advance across the field into their effective combat range.

The SW codex is one of the best at allowing player to have lots of threats that need to be addressed very early in the game.

timetowaste85 wrote:Good point. I was thinking the LCs in case they get charged, but chances are if they get charged they're probably toast anyway. Best to add that chainfist if anything, like what was mentioned before.

Might be too late, but I would reccommend against this. The beauty of long fangs is the bang for your buck. You start pumping more points in them and they become a big liability (points-wise) rather than a nasty cheap powerhouse. The lightning claws are nice, but with 6 wounds to the squad, if you get into melee, they are probably going to be gone very quickly, even with the claws.

When I played them, I expected them to get shot to hell or destroyed, but who cares?!? They are dirt cheap!!!

Mustela wrote:Ah! Getting shot at it isn't always a bad thing.

I mean, look at vindicators, they are mostly a fear unit, that might shoot once and get obliterated, but you opponent can waste a lot of missile launcher shots shooting at it's front armour to kill it.

The Vindicator Krak-magnet is a bad analogy, but I don't disagree with the sentiment.

Saldiven wrote:Thereby allowing your TWC or Rhinos/Razorbacks full of Grey Hunters unfettered ability to advance across the field into their effective combat range.

The SW codex is one of the best at allowing player to have lots of threats that need to be addressed very early in the game.

I don't disagree with this at all. It's one of the reasons I love the SW Codex so much.

The fact it allows you to present so many threats makes it even sadder when you see people stuffing eggs into baskets. The Fangs don't NEED the CML guy, who, by the way, can't split the two shots he gets because you have to declare Fire Control by the model, not by the shot. They don't need an RP who is useless against Runes of Warding and is liable to get Hooded. All they need is what they have; heavy weapons, bodies, and maybe a bit of cover.

It's not about hoping your Long Fangs NEVER take fire; because they will, and when they do they'll usually fold under it. It's about spreading the hate evenly throughout your army, so you don't lose units you need too early and end up with lots of Grey Hunters and Cavalry but no fire support. Stuff too much into the Fangs' packs and this is exactly what you're doing.

It's also why running the CML dude on his own is a good idea If he's with the Fangs and you put a Krak Missile on him then roll a 1 he dies anyway; at least if he's on his own you get the chance to shoot at a 3rd target, and your opponent has to direct shooting at him specifically, seperately, if he wants to kill him.

The wolfguard terminator with cyclone in a long fang unit is a bad idea for several reasons:

1. Too many eggs in one basket. Long Fangs are so great because they are inexpensive for what you get. The terminator is quite expensive.
2. Can not load a terminator in a Razorback dedicated transport armed with las cannon and twin linked plasma gun taken for the Long Fangs to deploy them to cover and good firing lanes in Dawn of War deployment.
3. 4-5 Missles is enough. The long fang leader is usually the first to die and you lose your ability to split firing so having more missles going into one target can be over kill.
4. You really want to spend the points elsewhere to have a more rounded list.

Avariel wrote:The wolfguard terminator with cyclone in a long fang unit is a bad idea for several reasons:

1. Too many eggs in one basket. Long Fangs are so great because they are inexpensive for what you get. The terminator is quite expensive.
2. Can not load a terminator in a Razorback dedicated transport armed with las cannon and twin linked plasma gun taken for the Long Fangs to deploy them to cover and good firing lanes in Dawn of War deployment.
3. 4-5 Missles is enough. The long fang leader is usually the first to die and you lose your ability to split firing so having more missles going into one target can be over kill.
4. You really want to spend the points elsewhere to have a more rounded list.

I wouldn't call it a BAD idea necessarily, it definitely has its place. SW's currently are great at missile spamming and if that is they type of list you are going for, why not run him in Long Fangs? It gives the Fangs a free 2+ save they can take advantage of, gives a tiny unit that is inherently vulnerable to losing valuable heavy weapons an extra wound, & gives extra punch to an already beefy unit. I agree completely about the strengths of the Fangs being their cost to value, and great point about the DoW issue (although I haven't tried it, I am wondering if you could get past the deployment prob with a cheapo drop pod that you deploy empty if needed).

It all depends on what you are going for with lists.

at 2500 points. a great idea. anything less and I would put the points elsewhere