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1) If I have a chapter master in a rhino, and the rhino moves, the chapter master counts as moving, and therefore cannot fire his orbital bombardment correct?


Sorry about asking this question again... but please read the relevant information that I have highlighted instead of making immediate judgments, thank you
2) Can Locator beacons be used in conjunction with Gate of Infinity?

Many people argue that the power cannot be used with Locator beacons because it says that

The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop and immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules

If this were the end of the rule description, then I would concede that Locator beacons do not work with GoI according to RAW, as locator beacons only work with locator beacons which only work

if a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon

However, on line 7 of the GoI rule it states

If the deep strike attempt scatters

In context, and using subject agreements, the phrase

the deep strike attempt

refers to

this power

which refers to Gate of Infinity. Which would mean that Gate of infinity is "the deep strike attempt" that also places it's models "anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules" which would mean that GoI and Locator beacons work.

If this is wrong, please explain how.

Lord PoPo wrote:1) If I have a chapter master in a rhino, and the rhino moves, the chapter master counts as moving, and therefore cannot fire his orbital bombardment correct?

That would be correct.

2) Can Locator beacons be used in conjunction with Gate of Infinity?

Opinions are divided. Some feel that 'using the Deep Strike rules' means that you reference the rules for the procedure on how to place them, but they are not actually deep striking. In which case the answer would be 'no'.

Some (including me) believe that 'using the deep strike rules' means that they are deep striking... because they're using the deep strike rules. In which case, the answer would be 'yes'.

For the record, I agree with Insaniak, as the alternative sets a dangerous precedent.

In his alterative explanation, the Librarian doesn't count as deep striking - this surely would mean that he can then assault, which surely cannot be right?

Okay... Umm... I get the fact that people disagree because it says that it "uses the deep strike rules". But it also refers to GoI as "the deepstrike attempt"..

Isn't the only thing that deep strike attempts have in common is that they "use the deep strike rules"?

Sorry for taking it down a philosophical path, but really, anything and everything is defined by its attributes, and if GoI has the one single attribute in common with "other" deep strikes that makes them deep strikes, then without specifically saying otherwise, it would in fact be affected by all things that affect deep strikes.

A deep strike, by any other name, would scatter just as much...

I'm not as well read on this topic as I could be, but from my perspective it seems like this should work just fine. Gate of Infinity allows the models to be placed on the board anywhere within 24 inches "using the deep strike rules", which to me says that anything that modifies or adds to the rules for deep strike would also be used. A Locator Beacon would allow the models to land on target. Tempest's Wrath would force all models in the unit within 24" of the Rune Priest to make Dangerous Terrain tests and treat all terrain as difficult. Descent of Angels would allow for a single d6 scatter (if GoI could be used on a unit with DoA that is....).

I don't see how this can be interpreted a different way.

The other hair people tend to split with Gate of Infinity is that you're using the deep strike rules but not arriving, or they're not arriving from reserves. If you walk out your front door, walk around your house, and walk back in through the back door did you just "arrive" again?

If you're going to use GoI, you might as well make a checklist to go over with your opponent:
1. Does it work with the beacon?
2. Can you use if if the unit's locked in combat, and if so does anyone get to consolidate?
3. What happens if you mishap and get Delayed, since you weren't in reserves Deep Striking?

I believe you use the Deepstrike Rules in their completeness.

1)If you or your enemy only wants to use the "placement" rules then you are picking and choosing which rules you are using in a rule set. Would you mishap? Can you assualt after? If you or your enemy says yes, then thier logic is broken, if they say no and yes, then just drop a 10man Th/SS with chaplain on top of them and assault them. A 30" assualt threat range is pretty rediculous for pretty much everyone.

2)It makes much more sense to just "Deepstrike" the unit and libby using the deepstrike rules completely. The sentance in the SM Codex Pg57 "The Librarian, and any unit he is with are removed from the tabletop and immediatly placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deepstrike RULES"

3)Skip the next sentance and then read the following "IF the deepstrike scatters and a double is rolled......" This sentance implys that there are ways it won't scatter, (rolling bullseye, beacons)

"Okay... Umm... I get the fact that people disagree because it says that it "uses the deep strike rules". But it also refers to GoI as "the deepstrike attempt".. "
The phrase "the deepstrike attemp" does NOT appear on said page of Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

solkan wrote:The other hair people tend to split with Gate of Infinity is that you're using the deep strike rules but not arriving, or they're not arriving from reserves. If you walk out your front door, walk around your house, and walk back in through the back door did you just "arrive" again?

If you're going to use GoI, you might as well make a checklist to go over with your opponent:
1. Does it work with the beacon?
2. Can you use if if the unit's locked in combat, and if so does anyone get to consolidate?
3. What happens if you mishap and get Delayed, since you weren't in reserves Deep Striking?

The fact that you are leaving the tabletop and reappearing on the table top entails "arriving" because of the word Immediatly in the discription means there is not reserve roll

1) Yes
2) NO, Its used in the Movement Phase
3) Mishap yes, Delay no

I play it that the locator beacon can be used.
GoI says you arrive using the deep strike rules, which to my thinking means you use all of them.
Consider, if you GoI the Librarian, and suffer a mishap, and roll a 5 or 6, you are "delayed" and go "back into reserve". If not, then what happens?
But how can you go back where you never were?
So the easiest solution is to place the Librarian (and unit if applicable) into reserve.
This means you are following the deep strike mishap rule.
So you should follow all the rules for deep strike, and that would include allowing the use of locator beacons (and even teleport homers if the Librarian is in terminator armor).

But you IMMEDIATLEY place them back on the table-hence no reserve unless you rolled the mishap then yes its possible to get stuck into reserve. moral of the story...use your beacon to avoid a mishap, lol

The Thunder Child wrote:

"Okay... Umm... I get the fact that people disagree because it says that it "uses the deep strike rules". But it also refers to GoI as "the deepstrike attempt".. "
The phrase "the deepstrike attempt" does NOT appear on said page of Codex.

Check out line 7. I doubt that our codexes are any different.

I stand corrected. My humble apologies. I was probably a little too drunk to say that. But my opinion still stands. Beacon yes. mishaps yes. everything from the deepstrike rules except the reserve (unless you mishap and get stuck in reserve) just think of it as warp delay.

The Thunder Child wrote:I stand corrected. My humble apologies. I was probably a little too drunk to say that. But my opinion still stands. Beacon yes. mishaps yes. everything from the deepstrike rules except the reserve (unless you mishap and get stuck in reserve) just think of it as warp delay.

It also should be mentioned that if the Librarian rolls delayed on the mishap table, then he (and unit if attached) go into reserve.
They then have to roll to arrive, and cannot GoI from reserve, they would have to arrive from the table edge (unless the Librarian and attached unit have terminator armor in which case they could deep strike).

The Thunder Child wrote:I stand corrected. My humble apologies. I was probably a little too drunk to say that. But my opinion still stands. Beacon yes. mishaps yes. everything from the deepstrike rules except the reserve (unless you mishap and get stuck in reserve) just think of it as warp delay.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you... And I actually want GoI to work with locator beacons, but carry with it all the risks that DSing normally has. It's a major component of my favortie C:SM army type and when the managers at a FLGS disputed the rule, I was a little put out.

Timewizard - except they could NOT deepstrike, as they were not declared as doing so at the start of the game (unless, of course, they HAD been in reserve at the start of the game and HAD deepstruck in)

I think they could.
If I had a land speeder that was in reserve and was going to arrive via deep strike, and it suffers a mishap and is delayed, when it next arrives does it have to now come in from the table edge?
It is not being deployed, but due to a special rule is now being placed back in reserve.
Since it is now being placed in reserve, I should have the option to declare how it is going to arrive.
I know it's somewhat of a gray area, but I believe it's allowed by rule.

Okay... but say they were delayed... how would they get back onto the board? would they simply act as standard reserves from that point on?

If you declare you are deepstriking as your reserve move, then you can deepstrike again if you get "delayed" - that isnt a problem

If you GoI, mishap and delay you cannot Deepstrike, even if you are in termie armour, because you would be arriving from reserves without having declared a special deployment - meaning you have broken a rule.

Actually, "delayed" just says that they are placed back into reserve. So couldn't you just walk back onto the board using the normal reserve rules?

I'm not suggesting that you would use GoI to go from reserves back onto the table. Although I would like to see some page numbers that tell me that I can't.

However, if you arrived from reserves using the normal reserve rules (not deepstriking), could you then GoI?

Lord PoPo wrote:However, if you arrived from reserves using the normal reserve rules (not deepstriking), could you then GoI?

No because GoI is used at the start of the Librarian's Movement phase.
The Librarian cannot use the psychic power if it's not on the board.
So it would have to walk on, then the following turn it could attempt another GoI.

You can only walk on from the edge, you dont have a choice in this....