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We know Space Marines are the epic badboys of 40k, that's why everyone and their mom plays them and almost 90% of all starting armies are Space Marines.

In the fluff we also know that while Space Marines are only 1000 per chapter, in the very beginning of the IG codex and the IG novels they said they are also outnumbered 1 million to 1. So if you had some Tyranids or Necrons approaching your tiny village or city and you were the mayor/governor/etc would you rather have one million guard or 1 space marine.

Of course this all depends on the space marine: He could be Mephiston, lord of cheese which then would obviously be worth it but given that there is only 1 of him we'll say you play the odds and get 1 at random from all the space marines (meaning you'll probably get some random low-ranking Tech marine of course you could also end up with 999,000 crappy conscripts too).

Side-question: how many guardsmen does it take to kill a space marine? (only lasguns)

Ummm 1 million guardsman ? Eventually the SM would die to being over run/shot in less then a seconds, a million lasgun shots, not matter how bad they are, has enough force to blow a hole through papa nurgle!

Lasgun shots cannot kill space marines.

DorianGray wrote:Lasgun shots cannot kill space marines.

Actually, they are quite capable of doing this. Power armor isn't impenetrable, and marines have a stupid thing for not wearing helmets.

Guardsmen, for the simple fact that 1 troop is easier to kill than a million. I don't care how badass you are, it has it's limits.

I love the IG with all my heart but I would take a space marine and just put him in charge of everything and then just hope The Emperor's Geneseed went to work and he didn't feth everything up.

Well Space Marines get power armor we have to remember.

But maybe this changes if we up the scales because we can argue the synergy (1+1 = 3) of space marines get better in a squad.

So would you take 10 space marines (they have good teamwork and can cover each others backs) or 10 million guardsmen?

What about an entire marine chapter of 1000 vs. 1 billion guardsmen...

DorianGray wrote:Well Space Marines get power armor we have to remember.

But maybe this changes if we up the scales because we can argue the synergy (1+1 = 3) of space marines get better in a squad.

So would you take 10 space marines (they have good teamwork and can cover each others backs) or 10 million guardsmen?

What about an entire marine chapter of 1000 vs. 1 billion guardsmen...

Well I have to say on the tabletop I think the guardsman would have it but I think if I was a member of the adeptus terra I would take the marines and send each one to a different world and hope they could impart some of their courage and faith to the ignorant masses, kind of like the primarchs when they were first scattered.

Just the million guardsmen? I'll take the Space Marine.

Banded together as a fighting force, the humble guardsman (times 1,000,000) has no knowledge of strategy, logistics, or general warfare. His morale is poor, and his will can be broken long before his body.

Give me an Astartes! As all are, he shall be versed in the language of deep, schooled in the ways of war, and above all, he shall know no fear.

But seriously. Without a command structure, the ministortum to keep them supplied, a Lord General to formulate strategy, the Departmento Tacticum to orchestrate logistics, the Commisariate to keep morale up, and the Ecclesiarchy to keep faith strong. Don't forget the cadre's of camp followers, pilots, servitors, and supply officers.

1,000,000 Guardsmen translates, if you're EXTREMELY lucky, into half that amount of fighting men.

Now, five hundred thousand Guardsmen versus one Space Marine? I'll take those odds.

Well its kinda assumed if you take the 1,000,000 guard option it comes with the officers, generals, and the other "know-hows" that is part of any commanding IG army.

1000 marine space marine chapter will get all their terminators and leaders but the 1 billion guard will also get their Superheavy Baneblades and Thunderbolts so...

I guess it would depend on who I am.. if I was in the "comfort" industry.. I would take the guardsmen,... lol

I'd personally go with the guardsmen but it all depends I guess. Try feeding and housing a million guardsmen^^ The space marine is like a pet who doesn't really need food, water, sleep and likes killing xenos... Still if one wouldn't have to buy them food and so on I'd say guardsmen would open a can of whoop-ass on the single space marine

DorianGray wrote:Lasgun shots cannot kill space marines.

Tell that to captain Boreale on Kaurava II, or Agna at Kaurava I.
Or tell that to CSM on Cadia. The thing is Lasgun is not quite powerful, but a well placed shot can kill SM. SM armor can take several shots of Lasgun, but several more + if 10 Guardsman are firing at him at the same time - no.


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DorianGray wrote:Well Space Marines get power armor we have to remember.

But maybe this changes if we up the scales because we can argue the synergy (1+1 = 3) of space marines get better in a squad.

So would you take 10 space marines (they have good teamwork and can cover each others backs) or 10 million guardsmen?

What about an entire marine chapter of 1000 vs. 1 billion guardsmen...

Let get this simple, Space Marines are build for fast assaults. Not full scale war. And one Sm is equal 300 Guardsman. + Stormtroopers of the Imperial Guard are tough like Space Marines. I would say in either cases - marines lose. 10 Space Marines can't even defeat 100.000 Guardsman, but they can defeat 10.000 Guardsman for sure.


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shealyr wrote:
Banded together as a fighting force, the humble guardsman (times 1,000,000) has no knowledge of strategy, logistics, or general warfare. His morale is poor, and his will can be broken long before his body.

And what if he talks about Cadians, Krieg or Catachans?

I assumed that 1 million Guardsmen meant a million strong Imperial Guard army, not a million guys with lasguns. Even then, I'd take the IG over the one Space Marine. The simple facts are that one soldier, no matter how tough will eventually be overrun by superior numbers. That's why the Spaniards had to recruit a local army against the Aztecs. If I told a million Guardsmen to charge one Marine, that Marine may kill a few dozen Guardsmen with his bolter, and then a dozen more in close combat.

But if he's dead, I win. So it doesn't matter really...

That's like asking: "What would you rather have in a fight? A needle or a sledgehammer?"

You say 1 million guardsmen, but you don't say which. They could be high ranking officers with the ability to call in Orbital bombardments, or Stormtoopers.

in game terms a space marine is worth what? 3 or 4 ig dudes? they aren't nearly as badass as IoM propaganda makes them out to be.

time to revolt against those nuts!

To have 1 SM or 1M Guard depends on the job.
And If I have to pay for them, or supply them.

Not everything can be solved by superior numbers.

1 space marine or 1 million guardsmen? You know a space marine is worth 100 ig not 1 million. its just they are so rare its that for every 1 million PLANETS there is 1 space marine. Not guardsmen. Its good thing to talk about but 1 million soldiers vs. ONE GUY? Is kinda just a little to unfair of a comparision.

Space Marines are unreliable abhumans with shiny but impractical toys, who are as likely to turn on you as fight the enemy. Between a Space Marine and a dozen Guard vets, my money's on the vets. Especially if someone handed them some hotshot lasguns ahead of time.

HELLGUNS. HELLGUNS! I refuse to call them 'hot shot lasguns'.

Everyttime someone uses the word hot shot lasgun instead of hellguns, I die a little inside. :(

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are unreliable abhumans with shiny but impractical toys, who are as likely to turn on you as fight the enemy. Between a Space Marine and a dozen Guard vets, my money's on the vets. Especially if someone handed them some hotshot lasguns ahead of time.

I am talking about cost wise. In the amount of money a marine costs XD.
But a Space Marine is a tactician read the Fallen angel stories they had some Fallen Angels lead rebellions to save an imperial force and used the people and slaughtered the imperial regime.

undivided wrote:That's like asking: "What would you rather have in a fight? A needle or a sledgehammer?"

I think a bunch of you are echoing what undivided said...

I would want a space marine.... because I like space marines.... I wouldn't want a bunch of grumpy shellshocked soldiers loitering around my house...

and, obviously Power Armour can stop a lasgun shot, but even then it will fall after volley after volley of concentrated fire. Like hitting a medieval knight with a rock, eventually he's going to go down...

Again, see above! Quantity or quality???

ChrisWWII wrote:HELLGUNS. HELLGUNS! I refuse to call them 'hot shot lasguns'.

Everyttime someone uses the word hot shot lasgun instead of hellguns, I die a little inside. :(

Weren't hellguns just slightly upgraded but otherwise normal lasguns, whereas "hotshot" lasguns have a shorter range but more power (however that's supposed to work, since more energy should mean less diffusion at range...)?

Hmm... "The hot-shot lasgun uses a more powerful, external energy cell. This allows the hellgun to project a more powerful, and more penetrating, shot." So... are the terms are meant to be interchangeable, did the author copy-paste the old hellgun entry and forget to change it to say "hot-shot lasgun", or is the hotshot lasgun is a modified hellgun?

I don't know, have you read the fluff, Marines die, pretty quickly, given they're supposed to be the Imperiums Finest.

I'd rather have Eldar Avatar, hell, get everyone in the Hive to get on their knees and pray to Khorne, cause a Greater Deamon or even a Deamon Prince will be more useful, how about a Necron Star God.....I mean, now we're talking, but a single Marine....yeah, I'd pass on that.

If you're talking about numbers, then you'll be talking about command structure, equipment and logistics as well. One million Imperial Guard might not calculate to one million fighting men, a lot of those are going to be all that grease that keeps them running and moving.

Which only says "the Imperial Guard choice is blatantly better".

If it came to war, I'd rather have the Imperial Guard. Though, if I was an inquisitor, or dealt with small skrimishes, a space marine would make a really cool body guard or agent.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Weren't hellguns just slightly upgraded but otherwise normal lasguns, whereas "hotshot" lasguns have a shorter range but more power (however that's supposed to work, since more energy should mean less diffusion at range...)?

Hmm... "The hot-shot lasgun uses a more powerful, external energy cell. This allows the hellgun to project a more powerful, and more penetrating, shot." So... are the terms are meant to be interchangeable, did the author copy-paste the old hellgun entry and forget to change it to say "hot-shot lasgun", or is the hotshot lasgun is a modified hellgun?

As far as I know, the hot shot packs are special packs issued to snipers so that their shots have more power against enemys. They are fitted into an otherwise normal lasgun. A hellgun is a special weapon issued to Storm Troopers and other such elite forces that trades range for much grreater armor penetration.

And no, Cruddace decided to change the badass sounding hellgun to the no so badass sounding hot shot lasgun. The only way it could get a worse name is if he announced that it would be pronounce LAYZgun instead of LAZgun.

A Space Marine. With him following me as a bodyguard, no one would mess with me!

Guess it would have to be the Space Marine.
I don't have the stamina for a million Guardsmen

Better still, may I just have one or two Guardswomen please?