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Has anyone heard anything about the new Eldar Aspect Shadow Spectres? They're Heavy Support based on the Forgeworld site (they've got minis already for them), and are listed as having "experimental rules". Info is from Forgeworld (link: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/S/shadow-spectres.pdf ). They look awesome!

They came out a few weeks ago and I think we had a few threads on the subject. However My friend is positively drooling at them. The Warp Hunter though, not so much.

The pictures don't do them justice. They're gorgeous models and a dream(so far at least) to paint.

Don't know about painting, I'm de-rocking mine at the moment to fit in with the rest of my Eldar. Lovely kits though, and as an aside the Warp Hunter also looks a lot better in the flesh.

But does anyone know whether they'll be approved as an OFFICIAL Aspect anytime soon? They do look quite lovely, and I'm hoping that GW will start making minis soon for them! The Ghostlight looks better than using a Fire Prism! Wheeee!

I do love the models. Though if I ever get them I will have to cut off the loin cloth rocks

Makhoy wrote:But does anyone know whether they'll be approved as an OFFICIAL Aspect anytime soon? They do look quite lovely, and I'm hoping that GW will start making minis soon for them! The Ghostlight looks better than using a Fire Prism! Wheeee!

Like I told ya, Imperial Armour 11.

The campaign book for Eldar v. Space Wolves/Elysians/Cadians introduces them and will give a full, detailed background on them.

I hope so! interesting weapons, although a bit short ranged.

Makhoy wrote:But does anyone know whether they'll be approved as an OFFICIAL Aspect anytime soon? They do look quite lovely, and I'm hoping that GW will start making minis soon for them! The Ghostlight looks better than using a Fire Prism! Wheeee!

Given the lack of new units in the current Eldar Codex, they'll likely make it into it during the next update. When that will be, however, is not certain.

While they're very good models, the rules are just ok. Certainly I can't see taking them over a fire prism (I might in a more infantry-centered army). Warp hunter rules look absolutely sick though. It's a banewolf on crack.

Yep, we had 2 topics on them just when they were released.. Models look cool and would be great to have..
Rules-wise the SS are as ineffective as Dark Reapers.. 35pts for T3 4+ model is a very risky business.
This is a S10 TL single shot for what? almost 200pts?
VERY dependant on your terrain and play style in your FLGS. They are terrible tournament wise - that's my opinion at least.
Not good for a suicide DS unit either - 12" guns is way too risky for a non-guided deep strike. Plus everything that they can maw down (TEQ units) will be in some kind of a transporter..
Warp hunter on the other hand is much more powerful, mobile and can be tougher with holofields.

Macok wrote:Yep, we had 2 topics on them just when they were released.. Models look cool and would be great to have..
Rules-wise the SS are as ineffective as Dark Reapers.. 35pts for T3 4+ model is a very risky business.
This is a S10 TL single shot for what? almost 200pts?
VERY dependant on your terrain and play style in your FLGS. They are terrible tournament wise - that's my opinion at least.
Not good for a suicide DS unit either - 12" guns is way too risky for a non-guided deep strike. Plus everything that they can maw down (TEQ units) will be in some kind of a transporter..
Warp hunter on the other hand is much more powerful, mobile and can be tougher with holofields.

They get a 5+ inv save, and dark reapers are awesome. The shadow spectres have relentless anyway so they can deep strike a way off then move in to range, and on thop of that they can move 6" in the assault phase which will potentially take them out of charge range. Awesome!

The look of the models is suitably cool too! I might actually get some, though it makes sense to wait to see if they are officially approved by GW.

Eldar Own wrote:They get a 5+ inv save, and dark reapers are awesome. The shadow spectres have relentless anyway so they can deep strike a way off then move in to range, and on thop of that they can move 6" in the assault phase which will potentially take them out of charge range. Awesome!

The look of the models is suitably cool too! I might actually get some, though it makes sense to wait to see if they are officially approved by GW.

5+inv save is a joke.. Nobody is going to shoot at them with lascannons or any other high AP weaponry. Everything else will bone them anyway. Only thing that save is good against is some ordnance AP4.
As for deep striking. What unit can they kill after DSing? With incredible, incredible, incredible luck it's 5 TEQ or one MC. Normal dice it's like 3 TEQ. For a 200pts. They will die afterwards, no question here. They are as easily killed as Fire Dragons. How long do those last after wrecking land raider? One squad of tacticals will kill them with bolters.
They can't move after DSing so getting them into position is still troublesome.
Why just don't take 5 wraithguard and put them in the WS? Guns have same range but WG at least can hurt MC and vehicles much easier. They are much tougher too. Same cost for a unit. If WG had deep strike I wouldn't DS them anyway.

They're awesome Tank Hunters in theory. They can pretty much insta-gib any tank (bar the Monolith due to it's Living Metal Rule) by DSing behind them then Ghostlighting their way, or shooting a Haywire Grenade from the Exarch. However when their target is roasted you basically have a 200 point unit that basically can do nothing but cherry tap the infantry elements in the enemy army now. They'll devour any heavy targets but very situational, not very good for an all-comer's list. Still though, they are really good at what they do.

Well they are crazy Deep Strike specialists. Think of what you can do with two squads. So say you take two squads of Spectres and two Squads of Hawks. The two squads of Spectres deep-strike first turn and chances are good they just popped two tanks, the wrecks block LoS.

Now on the other hand you can just take some Guardian squads with Brightlances but they are a pretty solid Heavy selection. So say with three selections you take two squads of Spectres and a Warp Hunter.

Their only real disadvantage they can't go in a Transport.

Honestly I didn't personally like them until this thread.

Macok wrote:They are as easily killed as Fire Dragons. How long do those last after wrecking land raider? One squad of tacticals will kill them with bolters.
They can't move after DSing so getting them into position is still troublesome.

If I'm not mistaken, Ghostlight's firing range is 60", so blowing that LR will not exactly expose themselves to rapid-fire or any other fire bar lascannons and other 48" weapons, which you specifically say won't target them. They have the same diversity that a fire prism has, you can DS them in close and burn a group of TEQ or you can keep them in the back, pelting transports and heavy tanks. Tbh, their only shortcoming is that they're in HS slot, which, although they definitely fit there, is so overcrowded that if GW ever was to approve them in regular 40k, they'd have to be elite, so at least they fight the Fire Dragons for their place and not our mandatory tanks and wraithlords, otherwise they'd never get used in competitive play.

Macok wrote:Why just don't take 5 wraithguard and put them in the WS? Guns have same range but WG at least can hurt MC and vehicles much easier. They are much tougher too. Same cost for a unit. If WG had deep strike I wouldn't DS them anyway.

Because 5 WG in a Serpent is a lot more than 200 points.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:However when their target is roasted you basically have a 200 point unit that basically can do nothing but cherry tap the infantry elements in the enemy army now. They'll devour any heavy targets but very situational, not very good for an all-comer's list.

Same as Fire Dragons and everyone takes them nowadays. And the cost is comparable, because Shadow Spectres don't need a transport, while FD absolutely do.

I can see your point Araenion, however Fire Dragons do have other perks going for them. With a cheap Wave Serpent they bring another weapon to the table, as well as 5 S8 AP1 Melta shots, as opposed to a single S10 AP2 Lance shot. Depending on the Wave Serpent they can also be cheaper, and for the same cost can decently handle MEQs S8 also makes them slightly better at handling MCs, where they will wound on a 2+ rather than a 4+ with the Prism Lances. They're also not competing for a HS slot, which the SS are (personally, a Wraithlord seems to be a better prospect than the SS, or two Fire Prisms).

Araenion wrote:

Macok wrote:They are as easily killed as Fire Dragons. How long do those last after wrecking land raider? One squad of tacticals will kill them with bolters.
They can't move after DSing so getting them into position is still troublesome.

If I'm not mistaken, Ghostlight's firing range is 60", so blowing that LR will not exactly expose themselves to rapid-fire or any other fire bar lascannons and other 48" weapons, which you specifically say won't target them. They have the same diversity that a fire prism has, you can DS them in close and burn a group of TEQ or you can keep them in the back, pelting transports and heavy tanks. Tbh, their only shortcoming is that they're in HS slot, which, although they definitely fit there, is so overcrowded that if GW ever was to approve them in regular 40k, they'd have to be elite, so at least they fight the Fire Dragons for their place and not our mandatory tanks and wraithlords, otherwise they'd never get used in competitive play.

You took those sentences right out of context. It was a whole paragraph about them deep striking. I was referring to fire dragons to show how easily they will be killed after DSing. There is almost no way that they will kill more than they are worth or that they will kill any real threat. At least not if your enemy even slightly bothered to protect it. Lone hero will be just as easily killed by long ranged shots. Forget abut having a second volley of shots - just look at FD after killing a LR - that's what I had in mind.

Araenion wrote:

Macok wrote:Why just don't take 5 wraithguard and put them in the WS? Guns have same range but WG at least can hurt MC and vehicles much easier. They are much tougher too. Same cost for a unit. If WG had deep strike I wouldn't DS them anyway.

Because 5 WG in a Serpent is a lot more than 200 points.

Yeah, and this part just follows my first thought. They are horrible DSers. Their 12"guns are "one shot only". Much better unit with 12" guns, for the same price are WL. More powerful, more durable. WL + WS may cost more but you DO get the wave serpent, you know.
Like I said - even when WL had DS and wouldn't need a transport I would be really hesitant to DS them. And they kick serpent's butt in 12" department.

Araenion wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:However when their target is roasted you basically have a 200 point unit that basically can do nothing but cherry tap the infantry elements in the enemy army now. They'll devour any heavy targets but very situational, not very good for an all-comer's list.

Same as Fire Dragons and everyone takes them nowadays. And the cost is comparable, because Shadow Spectres don't need a transport, while FD absolutely do.

First of all 5 Spectres are about the same cost as a 5 Fire Dragons with Wave Serpent. They are Heavy Slot, which is more crowded than Elites so FD +1. They are MUCH more reliable at killing *any* vehicle and killing *any* MEQ, TEQ, MC (maybe besides Avatar). A big + to FD. Up close and not with Ghostlight Spectres are horrible at killing vehicles anyway. Wave Serpent still stays at the field of battle when FD bites the dust - another +.

The only reliable source of damage is Ghostlight, which is just one LT AP2 shot. Look at them, and look at Broadsides. Their cost and range is similar, but Broads get 3 S10 AP1 shots, while you get one TL S10 AP2 lance shot. Broads win by a big margin here. Then look at their toughness. 5x T3 4+ or 3 T4 W2 2+ AND usually shield drones. The only way not to get their asses killed is by JSJ. They are very tall units so hiding besides a terrain isn't always an option. Very terrain dependent. One shot with abundance of cover is also troublesome.

I'm not saying that they are horrible, horrible never ever take them units. Just their competitive side is really weak. They cost a ton, do not bring much to the table and can be easily countered by some armies. If models were cheaper I would already own them.
Warp hunter is a total rape beast in comparison. It's cheaper too.

Warp Hunter is a pretty good tank compared to say the Falcon or a single (but not multiple) Fire Prism. However my friend insists that three Support Platforms with D-Cannons are better. Granted the Warp hunter has higher BS and an alternate firing mode, but two D-Cannon platforms are only 100 points.

Shadow Spectres might see more use if, when the Eldar Codex is updated, they get moved to the Fast Attack Slot. They seem like the Swooping Hawk variant of the Fire Dragons moreso than a flying Dark Reaper counterpart, and going to the FA slot means that they stand a better chance at being picked (although Warp Spiders are still pretty damn awesome).

With regards to what Macok said...

Yes, I did take the first paragraph out of context, I didn't notice that you meant it within the context of DS Spectres. You're right, they're not very efficient at short range.

If they weren't HS, I'd still take them over FDs. I hate one-shot sacrificial wonders and that Serpent that got close exposed itself as well, so you're looking at potentially losing both the Serpent AND the dragons just to take out a LR. In that case, I'd rather take a DAVU Serpent with a BL. At least it's scoring. As is, however, their FOC really hurts them.

I can see them being used in 1 situation:

Your gameboard has high enough walls that can totally block LOS on the squad, so they can pop out, fire their 1 shots, and hide.

They seem really expensive. Taking a squad for that combined shot it just too much to be worth it, IMO, and their individual shots aren't much better.

A S10 lance shot is really nice, possibly the best anti-tank weapon in the game. But, it's not worth those points.

I don't even like the ghostlight that much. We're taking about approx 200 points for 1 shot. So even with the re-roll to hit and being S10 lance (it will drop in strength as squad members are killed though, even 2 casualties make it the world's most overpriced bright lance) it isn't AP1. So at most, if nothing goes wrong, etc, you will get 1 roll on the penetrating hit table. Compared to fire dragons, yeah, that just blows. Shadow spectres are a unit specialised for killing heavy vehicles, when Eldar already have one of the best units in the game for that task - a unit that doesn't compete for 3 precious heavy support slots with the army's best and most flexible firepower.

Yeah, but, but....

They look cool don't they?

So there.

Reanimator wrote:Yeah, but, but....

They look cool don't they?

So there.

Yes, they certainly do look cool.

I'm hoping they get re-tooled and released as a part of the 6th edition Eldar codex (preferably as a Fast Attack unit)

Their combined shot is their most potent weapon but with individual fire they can still take out 3 or tour termies in one round of shooting, not bad. If you keep them by some cover then you can just pop them back in, that's the idea of that 6" move in the assault phase, and i really like it. Used well it will be a pain in yor opponent's side.

Yes, they do compete with Fire Dragons for AT, and each has it's disadvantages. FDs are cheaper, a lot cheaper, more than twice as cheap. But they aren't as hardy as the SS and can't get themselves out of trouble. However i'd still say fire dragons are better at taking out tanks, they can foll 2D6 if they're close enough, but i think i'd use shadow spectres for termie killing, or light tank killing, basically as fast dark reapers.

Besides, they look cool

Hopefully after the experimental stage the Ghostlight can fire with different profiles, like a blast template type attack the larger Prism cannon can do. That way they might be worth it, as each unit can effectively take the role of 2 Fire Prisms.