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Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





United States

My friend is going into Marines after years of losing with, er I mean playing with, Tau Empire.

He is torn between Ultramarines and Dark Angels for the Biker Army.

Can you knowledgeable people out there please tell me the pros and cons of either book for an all Biker army? I would love to pass this information over to him to help him make his decision.

Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality" 
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







Firstly If he's are struggling with a Tau army getting a bike army isn't going to help.

Out of the two i would go Dark Angles. There bike squads can take scoring Land speeders.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

It's widely regarded that C:SM has the better bike army selections, Ravenwing are to expensive for what they deliver.

The trick to a good bike army is to realize that your army will need support. Throwing down 36 bikes will let you beat some people who are not prepared soundly, but will lose due to some glaring weakneses. With some proper support, such as dreads, predators, and speeders they become damn effective.

C:SM bike lists are shooty lists. Make sure your friend does not want to play an assault list.

Finally, with the meta moving to more ML, AC and LC and away from only meltaguns, biker lists are not as good as they were last year. They still are good, but can be given a hard time.
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





Glasgow

I'd go with Codex: Space Marines. Use a White Scars List, with a Counts-As Kor'sarro Khan leading the force.

Something like this. http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/02/froggages-bikers/

You may also wish to have a read of this. http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/02/white-scars/
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

Paint them up as a unique homebrew chapter, and switch between both books at will.

There's a very good, competitive Ravenwing list here:

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/06/rare-builds-scary-dark-angels/

Ravenwing get you the ability to scout or outflank with your entire army (other than the HQ unit). It's a great multiple small units army.

The Space Marine list has more raw power, but the RW one is scalpel-like in its effectiveness when used right...

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Ian Sturrock wrote:There's a very good, competitive Ravenwing list here:

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/06/rare-builds-scary-dark-angels/
Great idea on the painting a list as your own custom chapter. I did ultramarines, which now I regret as the SW and BA codex are just better -- had I made my own chapter i could play them as BA or SW when I wanted something different.

As far as the list in the link, its a prime example of what I was talking about. It wil do great against specific armies, but it will get clobbered by others. Let me give you examples.

It faces a BA razorback spam list with 8 RBs. Lets assume its playing a smart player who knows to castle. The ravenwing move forward and on the first turn they manage to kill 5 of the razorbacks. On the following turn, the bikes are assaulted by every BA and wiped off the board.

Lets say that your facing a KoS army. You move forward and blow a wagon with your MG. On the following turn, 12 orks assault the sqaud of 4 bikes and clear them off the table with the orks PK. The same applies to a battlewagon. The orks will deploy out of range of your flamers and then just pound you. Assuming that your MM destroy the BW -- as it will be obscured by a KFF the MM has a ~10.52% of destorying obscured AV 14. Not betting odds.

S6 Eldar spam will decimate that list. Warwalkers pile in enough STR 6 shots a turn to wipe one squad of bikes a turn. Add the SC from the vehicles, and you will lose 2-3 squads per turn against S6 eldar spam. I've been tabled by someone who had 6 war walkers and 4 serpents. He killed all 32 of my bikes by turn 4.

Ravenwing cannot turbo-boost during the scout move. This means that, unlike deffkoptas, you cannot guarantee a round one assault on vehicles. It also means they cannot take advantage of the 3+ cover save that deffkoptas can on their first turn. If that were changed, I would be singing a different tune on the ravenwing scout worth.

I've tried similar lists to the one posted (though I ran with 5 man bike squads using C:SM) and found big glaring holes in it. Once I started adding some long range support, such as ACs, LCs, and MLs, my entire game changed. Now the truuks were cracked open 20" away, allowing my bikes to attack the troops inside. I could force the BA to come to be in bite-sized chunks instead of an unmanageable swarm.

My advise : Try some games to see what works. Your local meta may be different than mine so YMMV.
Also - I got my bikes for ~8 bucks a pop off ebay. Many of them I bought all the pieces for from hordeobits or reddragongames and just made them. Its the cheapest way to build bike armies -- and as an added bonus all your models can be wielding chainswords, bolt pistols, etc. I also added some ravenwing bikers to my army and gave them white robes -- which looks awesome on the ultramarines armor.
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

@labmouse, I'm not sure that such bad matchups for RW are auto-loses.

Sometimes you just have to play more cautiously. Usually if I go up againts BW/KFF orks with my RW, I keep away till I can get side armour shots (even if that's side armour shots from 24" away with the multimeltas/plasmaguns). Bike armies are fragile (RW ones even more than C:SM ones), so use of LOS-blocking terrain, turbo boost, etc., can be crucial. (And, yes. it'd be lovely if RW could turbo-boost in the scout move, but it doesn't totally cripple them that they can't; C:SM bikes don't get a scout move at all, after all).

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
 
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