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I have looked at older post and I am trying to make the rules for a casual game.

Cain:

ws bs s t w i ld sv
6 4 3 3 3 4 7 4+

gear: las pistol
chain sword
carapace armour

rules:

eternal warrior: he is extremely lucky and/or skilled
far away as possible: If a unit Cain has joined is assaulted, cain takes a leadership test. If he fails, he retreats 2D6 and automaticly regroups.
aura of inspiration: any unit within 6 inches of cain gains the fearless rule
the emperor protects: Cain has a 4+ invulnerable save and any wound that would cause instant death only causes a single wound

those seem to be traits of Cain from reading the novels.

Gunner Jurgen

ws bs s t w i ld sv
4 4 3 3 1 4 6 5+

wargear:

lasgun
flak armour

Rules:

look out - arghh!
always near: Jurgen always starts the game with Cain and moves with Cain, even in retreat
always prepared: once per game, jurgen can replace his lasgun with any weapon of the following; melta gun, plasma gun, flamer, grenade launcher, or demo charge.
expert driver: If cain takes a chimera/salamander as a dedicated transport, treat that vehicle as a fast vehicle that will pass any dangerous terrain tests.
blank: Jurgen nullifies all psychic abilities within 12 inches and all psychic attacks fail automaticly against Cain and Jurgen.


These two must be treated as a single HQ unit. 250 points.

let me know your ideas or modifications. I am looking to make these models for casual play. just trying to make it balanced and fun.

No no no no no no no no.

It goes like this:

Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM and Gunner Jurgen

Noted: so, the title is now:

Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium

As for Cain's stats, his WS needs to be much higher. He was quite possibly the best swordsman of his time-- including Astartes, Eldar, and so on. Jurgen is also more appropriate with a meltagun than a lasgun... and Jurgen is a Blank, which would render Ciaphas Cain and Jurgen immune to psychic powers.

Okay,

blank rule added to jurgen and WS of Cain increased by 1. I just added the other weapons to jurgen for fun. it has been stated that he would rather have lost and arm then be without his lasgun, so, therefore, that is what he has.

And finally... Jurgen had his own carapace too.

never realy read where it states he wears it. there are plenty of references where cain states he wish he brought his carapace armour, that he borrowed and never returned.

+1 Melissia.

While Jurgen is still alive, he automatically nullifies any psychic powers that targets him + Ciaphas and within 12".

Also Jurgen must have a Meltagun, no other options! Ciaphas and Jurgen can be attached to any squad. They also have the option of taking a Salamander Vehicle.

Ciaphas Cain has a bionic arm, which should grant him additional strength in close combat.

Any rules for Inquisitor Amberley Vail?

Actually he only has a pair of bionic fingers. They assist with his aiming (he comments about how much they assist his aim despite how his biological fingers are near-frozen, for example).

martin74 wrote:never realy read where it states he wears it. there are plenty of references where cain states he wish he brought his carapace armour, that he borrowed and never returned.

Both of them obtain their carapace armor in the first Cain book.

that is why he has a better bs than normal guardsman. the fingers help him steady his aim under the most dire of circumstances.

His stats are still rather pathetic though. A Lord Commissar has better BS and Ld, and I'd think you'd START with an LC's base stats.

noted:

My suggestion:


Commissar Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium:

Stats: Ws8, Bs5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4(5), Ld10, Sv 4+/4++
Equipment: Laspistol, Chainsword, Carapace Armor, Frag Grenades,
Rules: Independent Character, Infantry
Plot Armor: If Ciaphas Cain loses his final wound or is for any reason removed from play, he can choose to enter reserve instead.
Luck of the Emperor: Ciaphas Cain has a 4++ invulnerable save and Eternal Warrior.
False Courage: Any friendly unit with a model within 6" may use the Ciaphas Cain's unmodified Leadership value. Ciaphas Cain, and the squad he is attached to, chooses whether or not they pass or fail morale and pinning checks, and may regroup with an unmodified leadership check.

Gunner Jurgen, the True Hero of the Imperium

Stats: Ws4, Bs4, S3, T3, W4, I3, A2(3, Ld10, Sv 4+/4++
Equipment: Lasgun, Meltagun, Carapace Armor, Frag and Krak grenades
Rules: Infantry
Blank: Psychic powers which target Jurgen or the squad he is attached to (including Cain), or include them in their area of effect, automatically fail. Psychic powers performed within 6" of Gunner Jurgen must re-roll successful psychic tests.
Utterly Stoic: Gunner Jurgen always deploys with Ciaphas Cain if he is put in reserves via the Plot Armor special rule.
Expert Driver: If Gunner Jurgen or the squad he is attached to (including Cain) enters a transport, Jurgen does not count as part of that transport's passenger limit. The transport becomes Fast (if it was already Fast, it gains no benefit) until the squad disembarks.

i like that. think i will go with that. i am figureing 250 pts. yarrick alone is 185, and this is two guys, with good abilities.

Plot Armor: If Ciaphas Cain loses his final wound or is for any reason removed from play, he can choose to enter reserve instead.

Ahaha, +1 Mellisa.

Rather than the "Far away as possible" rule, I would suggest giving him the "withdraw" rule (can't remember if that is the actual name or not), as Cain was not opposed to fighting when his life depended on it and was skilled at extracting himself (and to some extent others) from combat.

are you thinking something more like this:

survival instinct: when cain or any unit he has joined is assaulted, roll for leadership test. if he passes, cain and any unit he has joined withdraws 2d6 and regroups automaticly. if the leadership test fails, Cain and the unit fights.

One more rule -

"Higher Priority" Assignment - Roll two dice at the start of each turn. On a roll of '2' or '12', Caine has suddenly become aware of a "higher priority" (read: mistakenly believed to be safer) task that needs to be handled "immediately" and departs the battlefield. Remove Caine and Jurgen from the game. Do not count them as casualties.

martin74 wrote:are you thinking something more like this:

survival instinct: when cain or any unit he has joined is assaulted, roll for leadership test. if he passes, cain and any unit he has joined withdraws 2d6 and regroups automaticly. if the leadership test fails, Cain and the unit fights.

More:

Cain decides the fight is a bit too dangerous. At the start of the assault phase roll for leadership and if he passes, he, Jurgen and any squad he is attached to may withdraw 2D6 inches and regroup.

And although I like "Higher Priority" Assignment, there also needs to be...


"It looks safe in he... ARGH! - While trying somewhere to hide... erm... while looking for the enemy, Cain accidentally stumbles upon an enemy squad. Each time Cain enters cover, roll a D6 and on a roll of 1 place 1 standard enemy troop choice into the terrain. Cain and this enemy squad are now engaged in close combat.

Melissia wrote:Commissar Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium:

Stats: Ws8, Bs5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4(5), Ld10, Sv 4+/4++
Gunner Jurgen, the True Hero of the Imperium

Stats: Ws4, Bs4, S3, T3, W4, I3, A2(3, Ld10, Sv 4+/4++

are you serious

ph34r wrote:

Melissia wrote:Commissar Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium:

Stats: Ws8, Bs5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4(5), Ld10, Sv 4+/4++
Gunner Jurgen, the True Hero of the Imperium

Stats: Ws4, Bs4, S3, T3, W4, I3, A2(3, Ld10, Sv 4+/4++

are you serious

Looks good to me. Cain is frequently stated to by an inquisitor to be one of the best swordsmen that she's ever met, and inquisitors tend to meet a lot of people. His hand to hand kills include an ork warboss, a genestealer patriarch, and a chaos warmaster. In short, he's VERY good with his chainsword. And while he's only as strong as a normal, trained human, he makes up for his lack of strength with his skill.

As for Jurgen's wounds, you could probably argue it either way. But the guy's definitely got nine lives.

and yet mr. Cain has his ass handed to him by a space marine. Why does everyone insist on making custom models fething AWEEEESSOOOOOOOOOME!!!! The proposed models are bloody damn well tougher than yarrick! I get the sense that people that draft their own rules ignore their codex outright.

That being said, I have no problem with this, and will add my seven cents--thats right, inflation.

i would see cain as a lord commissar with eternal warrior, does not execute units and counts as having a master-crafted weapon. Depending on which cain it is, i would prefer to give him a bolt pistol. Hw weould also not confer the stubborn ability, but count as having either the company standard.

Jurgen would be nothing more than an elite guardsmen subject to look out arrrgh special rule as well as the pariah special rule (necron codex), as well as carrying a melta gun. I would add a comforting presence speical rule that would enable cain to re-roll failed tests. Jurgen would have a 5+ invulnerable armor save.

Under no circumstance would I award any bloody guard model more than three wounds... Not sure how many yarrick has, but if he has more than three, its for a bloody good reason.

You also misread your books. The further on it goes the less he runs away. He might have an inherent desire to flee, but observe that eventually he stops running away.

I figure something around 200 points for both of them.

I wrote up some rules for him myself... I love the Cain series. Sometimes I feel that 40k takes itself far too seriously, and these sort of novels prove me wrong.

anyway... here we go. I'm not trying to do anything other than showcase what i think are good rules for Cain and Jurgen.

Cain
6 5 3 2(5) 3 4 4 5(10) 4+

gear - carapace armour, trusty laspistol, chainsword, frag, krak, melta bombs

rules - Independant character

Tingly Palms - at the beginning of every turn, do an initiative test. if passed, Cain and the squad he's with gets a 3+ invo save for that turn

Seasoned campaigner - Cain knows how to fight to live, and has used the same weapons for decades, such that they have surpassed mere tools. He always re-rolls to hit. If half or more (minimum 2) of the to hit rolls on a single model are a 6, then that attack causes instant death, regardless of toughness and ignoring armour. Inv. saves are taken as normal (counts as 1 attack for saving throw purposes). this is for both shooting and cc attacks.

Will to Live - When Cain is down to his last wound, his attacks are rending and his pistol is assault 2. Cain also uses 4d6 when running away.

Reluctant Hero - if there is a friendly squad within 12", cains toughness is 5 and leadership is 10. if no friendlies can be seen, t is 2 and ld is 5, and Cain Fears all enemy units.

Coward in Hiding - Cain must always start the game attached to a troops unit (any infantry). he may leave and rejoin any squad during the game.

Hero of the Imperium - Unless he's alone, Cain (and the squad he's with) are Fearless. Any friendly squad with line of sight to cain is Stubborn, any unit within 12" can use his leadership. If he dies or is removed from play, the entire army must take a leadership test. If passed, they gain preferred enemy:race and become stubborn. If failed, they immediately fall back 3d6 and gain a permanent -1 Ld modifier. Any unit Cain has joined gains the Look Out Sir! special rule for Cain only.

Impossible Odds - Cain has survived many situations by the skin of his teeth. When he loses his last wound, roll a d6. on a 4, the wound is saved by divine intervention from the Emperor. However, Cain will immediately fall back 4d6 towards the nearest friendly squad, even if he is in combat. He cannot be trapped or caught in a sweeping advance. Cain will not retreat if he is in a unit, but will move to the rear of the combat and cannot attack or be attacked next turn. (I'd change this for Plot Armour rule from melissa, because its funny and simpler)

Jurgen

4 4 3 3 2 3 2 7 4+

Melta Gun, Lasgun, CCW, Frag, Krak.

Commisarial Aide - Jurgen must always be within 3" of Ciaphas Cain. Also, in close combat against a machine or monstrous creature, any attack roll by the enemy with 2 or more 1's gives jurgen a shot at it with his meltagun. Can only be included in army if Ciaphas Cain is taken. Has the Look Out Sir! special rule for Cain only.

Psychic Blank - Counts as Soulless. Also, psykic powers will not work on Cain, Jurgen, or any unit they have joined. Cannot join a unit that contains any psykers.

Bad Hygiene - every enemy unit within 6" takes a -1 modifier to Initiative and leadership. If Jurgen is in play and Cain is not, this will also apply to friendly units. Any sane man, and many insane men, with a working nose will keep his distance from Jurgens smell. Jurgen must always be placed 2" away from any other model

Packrat - Jurgen always fills his pockets with whatever he thinks he might need. roll a D6 at the start of the game

1 - a half eaten something. (nothing additional)
2 - melta bombs
3 - replaces lasgun with hot-shot lasgun
4 - Demo Charge
5 - camo cloaks for himself and cain
6 - medkit (gives himself and Cain Feel No Pain. No one else would let Jurgen touch them, let alone an open wound)

oh yeah... just thought of this.... taken directly from pretty much every cain novel there is...

What a Twist!
From turn 3 onwards, roll 3d6. on any double, roll 1d6 on this table. stop rolling once this happens.

1-2 1d3 units of Genestealers show up
3-4 1d3 units of Chaos Marines show up
5-6 1d3 units of Necron Warriors show up

no upgrades are taken for any squads. they scatter 2d6" from the center of the table, ignoring cover and if they land in a unit, its close combat and count as charging.

these units must always attack the closest unit, no matter who owns it.