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I was leafing through the Mercs book last night, and I read up on these guys. Looks like the coolest looking Rhulic unit will contract with the Law Giver!
Considering their slam/knockdown ability, they seem to be a close fit with pKreoss lists fielding a redeemer.

What does the community think? Why do so few posted Menoth lists include non-solo Merc units?

Because non-Menoth merc units do not benefit from friendly faction spells and feats. This will all change with the ranking officer, but when your whole army depends on support and you can't support a whole unit, what's the point in having them? Thats my take on it.

I think most of the PoM buffs and bonuses are Faction only- so none of the merc units provide a notable benefit vs PoM units that can get some support. Just seems to be less synergy with PoM and mercs compared to say, Cygnar and Mercs.

Im not too familiar with the PoM stuff though- so my guess might be wrong. Malfred should wander through eventually and answer with a bit more authority since he likes them flamin zealots

Sp4m wrote:I was leafing through the Mercs book last night, and I read up on these guys. Looks like the coolest looking Rhulic unit will contract with the Law Giver!
Considering their slam/knockdown ability, they seem to be a close fit with pKreoss lists fielding a redeemer.

What does the community think? Why do so few posted Menoth lists include non-solo Merc units?

They have a number of problems.

Crit slam/knockdown on a unit that can't get boosted melee attack rolls is kind of a rare
thing. I'll have to check Harbinger, but maybe her spell that boosts attack rolls can benefit
them? I'm not sure.

But there's no bones about it, Menite feats and buffs mostly benefit faction models. A
Seneschal doesn't get angry or heal when a Rhulic model dies. I don't think Severius's
Eye of Menoth spell doesn't grant a +1 to attack and damage.

And for Horgenhold in particular, SPD 4 is a deal breaker. Temple Flameguard can run on
turn one, and then thereafter simply advance in Shield Wall and serve much better as
a speed bunch for the low cost of 4/6. Temple Flameguard also benefit from faction spells,
feats, AND the Covenant of Menoth, whereas the Forge Guard can't keep up and can't
benefit from the spells or abilities. They don't feed souls to anybody.

With Kreoss, as I said, you can't count on the crit slam, and so the feat is a little redundant
with them since you can't slam a knocked down model.

Menoth units are better. Knights Exemplar, Exemplar Errants or Bastions are all better units. Thats the big reason Menoth in general usually doesn't bother with mercs outside of some solos. The ranking officers won't dramatically alter, giving merc units access to menoth buffs doesn't change the fact that the menoth units in most cases are just better.

Darn! You're right. That makes sense.I had this great idea for mounting a menoth standard on a small base, and just dragging it around behind my Merc units.

maybe later.

I play Searforge. Forge Guard work wonders in that list because they are as fast as the rest of the list, so its not like they drag to keep up. The reason Menoth players steer away from them is mentioned above: cost vs goal. To me i'd rather have speedy daughters of the flame, errants who are dual role, etc, then dedicated 5 or 8 pts in my list for a unit without a ua that's slow, low def, but hits like a truck.

You should never count on the critical slam unless they are in a Highborn list with Aslynn. Minus that list, I never slam unless its the last guy, your fighting a jack, you didn't get the damage you needed, and you just rolled a crit. That's when you slam, or if your clearing objectives.

They are low cost, survivable with ARM 18, pretty good MAT, weaponmaster, and insane off a charge. But why they work is the Searforge best jacks: Drillers and Gun Bunnies, are low cost, so you have the ability to easily field 2 full units plus nice Warjack support for Casters who have high WC points. If you want to use Forge Guard play Highborn or Searforge, if you want to play Menoth, you have better options with higher speed, def, and weaponmaster or cool abilities that hit just as hard, and cost the same in points and $.

Cruising the PP sit,e it looks like there's a new Solo coming out for Menoth that will allow merc units to receive Menoth Faction buffs!

if these guys could get menoth faction buffs, would that change anything? are there any Faction buffs that allow a unit to roll extra dice on the attack (increasing odds of a crit)?

I've got both a searforge and a menoth faction, so units that will allow me to grow both are a plus.

You're talking about ranking officers which we mentioned above. As for if Menoth has that spell, I do not believe they do, and though I do not play Menoth I have played against Menoth more than any other faction and do not recall ever having seen that.

The Harbinger:

Guided Hand: Friendly model/unit gains additional die on first melee attack roll.

However, I don't remember if I wrote it correctly into the article. Is it friendly or friendly faction?

Either way, it's not ideal.

That would work like Fire For Effect on a unit of WGI where it boosts only the first shot the unit as a whole takes, correct?

Actually, it looks like the right fit!
Guided hand gives and additional de on each MODEL'S first melee attack roll this turn.

As well, the Harbinger can Crusader's call to give the slow dwarves a little more room to charge.

Only issue here, is this is a Harbinger synergy, not the pKreoss/Redeemer synergy I'd initially hoped for.

The Attendant Priest Attachment
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/units/attendant-priest-mercenary-unit-attachment

Looks like he's going to allow friendly Mercenary Models to count as Friendly Faction Models.

I'm not sure using half of Harby's focus to make the forge guard as good as units you already have (who get better with the same buffs) is that good of a deal.

For fun play, I'd say go ahead and take them. I mean, if you have fun playing it, what's the problem? For competitive play, Menoth is already one big bag of support. They need little else, aside from an occassional merc or minion solo to supplement them, like Lady Aiyanna and Master Holt for Kiss of Lylyss. A -2 Arm spell helps anybody out and essentially makes a 'jack with +2/+2 from the Choir +2/+4 and that's just nasty.

Edit: The +2/+4 is only on whatever is affected by the Kiss.

Hmm, well, For fun, I'm severely tempted, but I'm not sure they're $50 worth of fun.

I don't want to get too focused on "tournament lists" or I'm afraid WM will become as little fun as competitive Magic, but does anyone have any cool ideas about how this new unit could be used in a competitive list?

It's a shame Protectorate won't hire the Nyss Hunters like everyone else isn't it?

I'm starting a PoM force and my first unit will be errants. At some point I'll get temple flameguard. But none of the available merc units tempt me (well, except for Sam and her Devil Dogs).

That's a good temptation right there. Don't forget that Sam really likes her a pet Nomad to go along with the boys. Problem with PoM and mercs though is they have so much tied up in support already it's hard to find a place for Mercs.

And Sam and the Dogs synergize really well with anything that does knock downs. Something that Menoth seems to be really short on.

Played my first game with this build, and it was a huge success!

the forge guard marched slowly up the field, protected from spells thanks to their attendant priest.

on turn 3, Crusader's call opened the way for them to get an 11" threat range, and the attendant preist granted path finder, so the wreck markers in the way woudn't slow the advance. I was able to score 2 P+S 11, +4 dice swings on denegrah.

Guided hand let me roll 3 dice to hit, and sure enough, I crit on my second swing. Rather than take the extra damage, I chose to slam her. (I believe I lose the weapon master die and the charge die if I use the slam ability...)

I rolled a 6, and knocked her backwards, putting the nightmare out of her control area.

She was unable to give it focus on it's most crucial turn.
She was unceremoniously executed the next turn.