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I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I'm trying to choose which army I want to build. I'm trying to choose between Dark Eldar and Orks, and so I need an overview of their strengths, weaknessess, and tactics. Thanks!

Orks are better. Just kidding. IMO, orks are a pretty boring codex. Very few ineresting units, very little variation among lists. Dull.

DE have lots of flavor and fun to be had, so I'd say go with them.

Also, belongs in GD

Thanks! How do you change forums its in?

PM a mod and ask them to move it.

Actually I'd say Orks are easier to learn, more forgiving and straight forward. The strength of Orks is their numbers.

Dark Eldar are very mobile, but fairly fragile so can be very unforgiving. The strength of Dark Eldar is their speed.

Both kind of have a similar weakness to mid strength (6-8) weapons, templates and blasts. The way to compensate this is to get cover if possible. Orks can do this easier than the Dark Eldar due to their numbers allowing you to interlock the units and give each other a cover save. The Dark Eldar are alright at it as well due to their smaller units being easier to hide behind terrain, not to mention the upgrades their transports can get. They both have a decent variety of builds available to them though. I'd say leave it to whatever you like the look of more.

Orks:
Close combat oriented
Fragile single models/poor saves across the board.
Must be "themed."
4th Edition Codex makes them a bit limited.
Poor long range firepower.
"Easy" to learn.

Dark Eldar:
Deadly close combat.
Great anti-tank, anti-unfantry abilities in general.
Glass cannon.
Still New Flavor of the Month.
"Difficult" to learn.

With all that being said, I'd go with Orks if your new to 40k. They are very point and click. That means you get the boyz and their toyz to the enemy and bash heads in.

When you make an Ork army, you can't cobble it together. It must be all meched or all footsloggin'. It must suit a theme and be at roughly the same speed (Trukks and sloggin' boyz don't mix). The few units like the Lootas and the Deffkoptas are army wide units that most armies field. And the Big Mek with KFF are also popular choices in many ork builds.

Dark Eldar require more finesse and have more choices to choose from than the Orks currently do. When they hit, they hit hard and overwhelm your transports and tanks. When your exposed, the eject their close combat experts to finish the job. They have more tactical choices available than an Ork army does, but an experienced player or one who becomes more knowledgable of DE can use them well. On the downside, if they fail to kill an opponent, they are usually on the very bad side of a wuppin'.

Typically, you spam Dark Lances to knock out an opponent's army and then you go for the kill with close combat experts. You screw around with the opponent's mobility, then eat them alive.

Thanks Warone! From what you're saying, I think I'm going to choose Dark Eldar, but I am not quite sure. I have made a decent ork army list, and now I'm working on a Dark Eldar list, so you can compare them later, if you want.

Dark Eldar, if you have patience. Not patience in game, where you want to hit as fast and as hard as possible, and they have the firepower and speed to deliver, but in the overall scheme of things: they're fragile, and you will probably be soundly defeated until you get the hang of them, and the hang of the game in general, though the latter is also true of just about any army.

Orks have wonderful fluff, and their codex is a fun read, but I've never really cared for their rules. Dark Eldar have, with the new codex, great fluff and interesting rules. The new models are also absolutely beautiful, and are what finally drove me to stop just playing on Vassal and actually build an army.

WarOne summarized it nicely.
If you're a beginner, I'd go with Orks. They are a forgiving army in opposition to DE.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Dark Eldar, if you have patience. Not patience in game, where you want to hit as fast and as hard as possible, and they have the firepower and speed to deliver, but in the overall scheme of things: they're fragile, and you will probably be soundly defeated until you get the hang of them, and the hang of the game in general, though the latter is also true of just about any army.

Orks have wonderful fluff, and their codex is a fun read, but I've never really cared for their rules. Dark Eldar have, with the new codex, great fluff and interesting rules. The new models are also absolutely beautiful, and are what finally drove me to stop just playing on Vassal and actually build an army.

You'll need patience if you're going to play Orks too.. at least in the movement phase. Your opponent may need a pillow - bring one to tournaments so it doesn't hurt your sportsmanship score!

I'm a proud, loud, footsloggin' Ork player, and have a lot of fun with them. Now between a footsloggin Ork army and a mobile Eldar force (Dark or Craftworld) the Eldar will usually take the win due to the sheer volume of light-to-medium anti-infantry firepower they can put out whilst avoiding combat. Orks, on the other hand, outweigh pretty much everyone in weight of attack - the primary issue is delivery.

You can have a lot of fun with Orks, and contrary to what people are posting, there are very strong 'hybrid' Ork armies.

I'm a craftworld Eldar player and know very well that they are different pieces of cake. Some units are disappointingly 'useless' in either codex, but overall I think that Orks are an easier army to play. They are also incredibly fun as modelling projects, which is in itself a reason to start an army!

I have played against many wildly Dark Eldar armies since the latest codex and they have a lot of disturbingly powerful builds but they are always very fragile. Orks also have an element of fragility in that they can badly lose momentum, and when it comes down to the crucial element of key charges, Dark Eldar have the exact same problem. The difference is that being a more mobile army, DE can place those charges more easily - Orks are overall more resilient and powerful in combat.

n0t_u wrote:PM a mod and ask them to move it.

Actually I'd say Orks are easier to learn, more forgiving and straight forward. The strength of Orks is their numbers.

Dark Eldar are very mobile, but fairly fragile so can be very unforgiving. The strength of Dark Eldar is their speed.

Both kind of have a similar weakness to mid strength (6-8) weapons, templates and blasts. The way to compensate this is to get cover if possible. Orks can do this easier than the Dark Eldar due to their numbers allowing you to interlock the units and give each other a cover save. The Dark Eldar are alright at it as well due to their smaller units being easier to hide behind terrain, not to mention the upgrades their transports can get. They both have a decent variety of builds available to them though. I'd say leave it to whatever you like the look of more.

I believe the general FAQ addresses the interlocking of units. The closest unit doesn't benefit.

Orks are more forgiving, DE have more viable options and are potentially more powerful. Both can be delicate (poor saves) but have ways to make up for this (orks with numbers and force field, DE with speed and feel no pain).

The biggest downside of Orks is their FOC, specifically elite and HQ, means they have less options than they should have, as some of the units in these slots are pretty much auto includes. The choices made in these two slots determine what the rest of the list should look like more than just about any other factor.

The biggest downside of DE is a good portion of their range has no models out currently. The initial release only has models that cover the basics. Most of HS, a good portion of FA, a couple of units in elites, one of their basic transports, and the HQ retinue currently have no models. This should be addressed in a second wave release, but I'm not exactly sure when that will be (it is GW, I'm not sure THEY even know for sure).

notabot187 wrote:The biggest downside of DE is a good portion of their range has no models out currently.

Normally not an issue with custom werk, but for a new player, it can be daunting to make enough changes to existing models to classify it as something different.

I would not invest heavily in ANY army until you really get comfortable with the rules, understand how the game works, and get to grips with what you like and are good with. Then revisit the army choice and invest accordingly. Use proxies if you have to, but my recommendation to all new players is really get to know the game before you sink too much money into an army and have regret down the road.

As to ork vs DE, I've played a lot of both. Orks are more straight-forward, this is true, but the codex isn't as strong as DE. If you're just looking at casual play with friends, etc., this hardly matters. Get what you like to play, put a decent list together and go for it. If you want to be a top dog and play in tournaments with a chance to win, DE will ultimately be much stronger and more flexible than orks, but will require more skill and experience to master.

Orks are definately worth it as a beginner, because it teaches you the intricate Close Combat dance very well, as all the army does is get into CC almost all the time!

But as said, DE are a newer codex and much more flexible with what you can do on a competitive level.

Orks can compete, but have more difficult match ups versus new codexes.

From what I'm seeing, the smart thing to do is choose orks. So naturally, I'm going to choose Dark Eldar. I want to be competitive, and I will have plenty of time to practice as my brother is obsessed with 40k and would be happy to practice with me. Thanks so far for your advice! Please give more! I need it!

I started playing with Orks and moved onto DE after about a year and a half. I'd recommend the Orks to start - nothign wrong with the codex and it allows one to learn the rules of the game without too many complications.

Thanks for your advice. I cannot afford two armies, and eventually I want to win some tournaments, so I'm going to go with Dark Eldar. Thanks everyone!

Players win tourneys, not armies. One thing to consider is that a competitive ork list could be potentially much cheaper money-wise - most good dark eldar lists I have seen (and the one I have been playing) have 6-8 vehicles.

Most competive ork lists have either 3 boxes of killa canks and 9 boxes of boyz, or 3 battlewagons and a bunch of other things to go in it (nobs and burnas).

All xenos armies are expensive in $. Orks you can sometimes get cheap because they get dumped on ebay.

Also remember, you can "kustom" build your battlewagons and most other vehicles. The AOBR box orks are pretty cheap on ebay.

You could probably lay out under 200 bucks and get a really competitive ork list.

If you're new, go with Orks. They're like Space Marines but less bland and processed in flavor.