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I'm getting ready to increase the size of my list one last time and I need a third heavy support choice. There was a thread already on this type of thing- generally speaking of Eldar heavy support, but it didn't take into account the Night Spinner- which currently has my eye as a possible contender.

In any event the list I run is a mech hybrid. I usually run something along the lines of a jump autarch, farseer, 4 wave serpents w/ dragons, banshees, avengers, and storm guardians, 2 squads of GJB, and warp spiders and 2 fire prisms @ 2K

My question is as follows, what should I put in that last heavy support slot, currently I am debating between falcon filled with dire avengers, for scoring, 3 war walkers with either shuri cannons or scatter lasers, or a night spinner. I don't think a third prism is the way to go, as it seems 2 is the perfect number for them, however I may be wrong, and I suppose redundancy is always good.

War Walkers are obviously good, I have a pair so would only need to spend $30 or so to round out the squad, I love them to death in low point games but they don't seem to perform as well for me in larger point games, often getting left behind the rest of my highly mobile force... I usually run them with just shuri cannons and outflank them, but something tells me that 3 with scatter lasers would perform admirably- even in larger games.

Falcon: add holo-fields and eml, fill with DAVU, possibly a guide seer... mix it all together, and you end up with a massive point sink! But its not all bad, you do get some awesome anti med armor shooting, and something that is very difficult to remove from an objective. That alone can be worth the points.

Night Spinner: This unit has really caught my attention, I'm unsure of how all the special rules work, as I don't have that particular white dwarf, but its legal in all eldar lists, and is supposedly quite nasty. s6, rending, twin linked, dangerous terrain, and indirect fire all sound wonderful. ap- and the fact its not super useful against vehicle spam does worry me to an extent however. I do feel like having a night spinner would help me handle my toughest match ups- jump angels, nob bikers, and TWC. Hitting those dangerous assault units with dangerous terrain after a rending s6 volley seems like it could really help me out.

Part of me thinks that the war walkers are the way to go, but they really don't help me deal with those tough match ups for mech eldar that I mentioned a bit earlier. I've been beaten pretty brutally by jump angels, the combination of 3+ armor and 4+ fnp, as well as 18inch furious charge and melta guns gives me no end of trouble- especially if they target my prisms early. To counter my weakness to this type of list, I've begun taking banshees in my all comers list, and I'm beginning to consider mind war on my Farseer- get some snipe some sang priests and pain boys. Of the three heavy support options I'm considering, the Night Spinner seems most capable of helping me mitigate my worst match ups- which can be invaluable in an all comers list

A falcon would help add more anti tank however, and that is important in larger point games. It would also give me a rock hard troop choice to anchor down on an objective.

Anyway, I keep going back and forth, I need some more suggestions and fresh opinions on the matter.

i personally would go for a 3rd prism...however it seems that your list could use another scoring unit so id have to say go with a DAVU falcon

the DAVU will be essential at that point lvl

lliadon wrote:i personally would go for a 3rd prism...however it seems that your list could use another scoring unit so id have to say go with a DAVU falcon

the DAVU will be essential at that point lvl

I would also go with the 3rd prism, so they can still link after one had died.

War walkers sound great, but I just dont see them being worth the slot

I also use 3 fire prisms. I think it's a good choice, and the nightspinner definitely is outclassed in flexibility by the prism. War walkers are a solid choice though, take those if you like. I am not an advocate of burning a HS slot for an overpriced, low-damage scoring falcon. Better to take a shooting unit and cram the scoring into regular troops slots.

third prism

Sorry, got to ask. What is DAVU?
Dire Avenger V???? Unit?

Skinnereal wrote:Sorry, got to ask. What is DAVU?
Dire Avenger V???? Unit?

Dire Avenger as Vehicle Upgrade

Tri wrote:

Skinnereal wrote:Sorry, got to ask. What is DAVU?
Dire Avenger V???? Unit?

Dire Avenger as Vehicle Upgrade

To be a bit more exact, it means buying a minimum-sized DA unit (60 pts) to ride around in a vehicle. They will never normally disembark during the game, but the vehicle counts as scoring so long as they are inside (it is a lot harder to shift an eldar tank off an objective than almost any eldar infantry unit).

Ok, so it sounds like the general consensus is that a third prism is the way to go. I suppose that makes sense, as it keeps versatility up even if one is prevented from shooting, horray redundancy!

This raises another question I have though: when is the spinner good in a larger list? I see lists using em, but general advice is to stick to prisms, walkers and occassionally falcons. I suppose 1 spinner is better than 1 fire prism in low pt games, but that seems somewhat limited?

Third Prism!

*Jumps on bandwagon!*

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1640390a_NightSpinner_Rules.pdf

akaean wrote:Ok, so it sounds like the general consensus is that a third prism is the way to go. I suppose that makes sense, as it keeps versatility up even if one is prevented from shooting, horray redundancy!

This raises another question I have though: when is the spinner good in a larger list? I see lists using em, but general advice is to stick to prisms, walkers and occassionally falcons. I suppose 1 spinner is better than 1 fire prism in low pt games, but that seems somewhat limited?

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1640390a_NightSpinner_Rules.pdf The night spinner is a horrible horrible tank. Lets just compare it to a fire prism both can fire a large blast, prism gets Str5 AP4 Spinner gets TL- Str6 AP- rending, monofiber, barrage. Sure it can slow a unit down but really you want to kill what you shoot at.

Right now it sucks beyond belief. You'd be better served taking three support weapons batteries with shadow weavers ... would only cost 90pts and give far more fire power.

... lord that is terrible formatting; highlighted and yep all one line ... still a horrible tank

Tri: While I'm not a fan of the nightspinner, it is a large blast weapon. That pdf is just badly formatted, the word 'large' before 'blast' is shifted to under the weapon range.

I would go for 3 WWs with scatters

Have you considered dark reapers? Because everytime i have used them in my fastmoving tank list they have earned their points back if not more. they have a great range and rips right through anything they hit, and if you give the exarch the tempest launcher and crack shot upgrades you ignore cover with two templates with ap 3 that rerolls to wound at bs 5

I love my Warwalkers armed with Shuriken Cannons.

40 points per war walker makes it nice and cheap with 18 Str 6 shots its pretty cost effective. I know Scatter lasers have 1 more shot and longer range but they cost 3 times the price

I typically run with dual prisms and a squadron of War Walkers. The prisms will give the heavy armor punch (and with the farseers &/or Eldrad could potentially always be TL) and the War Walkers give tasty volume of shots.

The good thing about walkers that I love is that they put out a ton of quality shots, are cheap, and if the enemy focuses on them, your prisms will be rejoicing!)

Night spinner...

Try it out, while not having the killing power of the prism or walkers, it has more subtle effects.
Simply giving the enemy pause for thought about if he really wants to change position of that unit can be a real game winner, messing with the enemies plans in ways other than killing them also seem very Eldar-like for me.

Depending on my mood, i may field fire prisms, walkers, lords... even reapers if i feel like it, as i like to use them now and again... but i think i'll always have a night spinner from now on.

I'd go for either 3 Scatter walkers or a 3rd Prism. So far, out of all my units, the War Walkers alone never failed to pay their points back. Not only that, but usually they pay double their points back.

The difference between a 24" shuriwalkers and 36" scatterwalkers is immense and more than worth extra 60 points in games 1500 points and above. Outflanking a unit 36" range guns means you have the entire table half to shoot at. Against mech armies, that pretty much guarantees rear shots into Rhinos or Vindicators, provided the Walkers come in on the desired side. The difference between a 24" shuriwalkers and 36" scatterwalkers is immense and more than worth extra 60 points in games 1500 points and above.

In my last game at 1750 points, they came from the wrong side of the table edge, too early. They spent a turn just getting into position. After that, they blew up one Land Speeder, immobilized and blown off a gun from another(rendering it useless, as it was an objective game), blown a gun off a Rifleman Dread and killed 4 assault terminators. And that's when they came both on the wrong side of the table and too early for my plans.

I've tried playing a Falcon instead, because my list really could use one more troop choice, but in the end, it didn't destroy anything over the course of the game, the point it held was contested and I was left with a sour taste in my mouth and a distasteful glare at the silly FAST SKIMMER tank that didn't move more than 6" the whole game.

I'd try out the Night Spinner. It doesn't have the sheer killing power of some options, but movement interdiction effects can be extremely powerful in the right circumstances and can win you games.

A squadron of war walkers can also be quite nice, pumping out a ton of S6 shots fairly cheap.

I'm not a fan of Prisms as they are unreliable and hardly make back their points. The best thing about them is that the enemy is scared about their presence and they can contest and ram if necessary.
I'd go for the unusual Night Spinner or 3 War Walkers.

I'm becoming an increasingly bigger fan of falcons with EMLs. They're only about 20 points more than a fire prism, and can sit in the back throwing out 3 str8 ap2-3 shots every turn at 48". Yes, they're only BS3, but the ability to score multiple wounds on the innumberable 3+ save monstrous creatures out there, while jockeying around 6" to deny cover before each shot, can score some serious wounds.

Yes, fire dragons can do the same thing, but only by moving up to within 12", making them vulnerable to assault if they whiff.

Flavius Infernus wrote:I'm becoming an increasingly bigger fan of falcons with EMLs. They're only about 20 points more than a fire prism, and can sit in the back throwing out 3 str8 ap2-3 shots every turn at 48". Yes, they're only BS3, but the ability to score multiple wounds on the innumberable 3+ save monstrous creatures out there, while jockeying around 6" to deny cover before each shot, can score some serious wounds.

Yes, fire dragons can do the same thing, but only by moving up to within 12", making them vulnerable to assault if they whiff.

Prisms can be taken bare (and should be)... falcons need the upgrades, making them at least 40pts more expensive (holofield and missile launcher 55pts (170pts)). If you're going to only be moving 6" might as well take warwalkers you'd get 2 with 4 EML (140pts) better yet take 3 with 6 scatterlasers (180pts) 24 Str6 shots

Tri wrote: Prisms can be taken bare (and should be)... falcons need the upgrades, making them at least 40pts more expensive (holofield and missile launcher 55pts (170pts)). If you're going to only be moving 6" might as well take warwalkers you'd get 2 with 4 EML (140pts) better yet take 3 with 6 scatterlasers (180pts) 24 Str6 shots

Why do falcons need the upgrades? I played a single DAVU falcon in a tournament yesterday and paid for holofields, but I shouldn't have bothered. In 3 rounds my opponents shot at my falcon exactly zero times (much less hit it). It spent the game sitting at the back with the vypers, plinking characters, terminators, wraithlords...

Most of the antitank most armies pack these days is guys in rhinos with meltaguns. That kind of unit is never going to get a shot at a falcon with range 48". (Long fangs are the exception, but they're a problem for all Eldar mech armies regardless of what you take as heavies.) There's really no reason why an EML falcon needs holofields any more than a fire prism does.

And of course a falcon is more survivable than war walkers because you have AR12. And you can move 12" when you need to and still take 2 shots--with the only 48" range AP2 gun in the Eldar arsenal. Or add a DAVU unit to either camp your home objective, sitting at the back hitting the prime targets, and/or rush 24" for objectives in the endgame.