Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There is a point I still not understand about GW and Forge World.

Their products rely on the same type of products, more: the same ranges (40k and WHFB).
Forge World is branch of GW (more or less directly).

Then why is there still no common retail structure? Like a common internet shop?

Someone can give me an explaination?

Because I don't think they pay FW. It is easier for them to have FW do all their work and take the profit. However, that sounds more evil than it probably is.

Since FW is set up as a separate (though wholly owned) subsidiary company, it makes the bureaucracy and branding simpler to have separate web sites and sales.

Mewiththeface wrote:Because I don't think they pay FW. It is easier for them to have FW do all their work and take the profit. However, that sounds more evil than it probably is.

Actually thats just about it. Forge World works under license from GW. Kind of like Armourcast used to before they were made redundant.

snurl wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:Because I don't think they pay FW. It is easier for them to have FW do all their work and take the profit. However, that sounds more evil than it probably is.

Actually thats just about it. Forge World works under license from GW. Kind of like Armourcast used to before they were made redundant.

More than licensed they are owned by GW. I assume they are kept separate for simplicity. It's probably got a lot to do with 'branding' and stuff.

Resin figures are more difficult to produce and more difficult for the customer to assemble than metal or plastic kits . The resin product really needs to have its own brand identity to set separate expectations about cost, quality and delivery times.

RanTheCid wrote:The resin product really needs to have its own brand identity to set separate expectations about cost, quality and delivery times.

Oh yes, especially those three.

It'd probably be a smart thing for GW to at least have a link to FW on their site though.

I would imagine one reason is that Forgeworld is notoriously touch and go in terms of customer support and quality assurance. Selling through the GW site would require GW's consistently excellent service, which FW isn't really capable of (for a lot of reasons, and not all silly).

Fafnir wrote:It'd probably be a smart thing for GW to at least have a link to FW on their site though.

They do, at the bottom in the drop down (or is it fly up?) menuwhere you pick your country of choice.

BrookM wrote:

Fafnir wrote:It'd probably be a smart thing for GW to at least have a link to FW on their site though.

They do, at the bottom in the drop down (or is it fly up?) menuwhere you pick your country of choice.

Well whadduya know? They do an excellent job of hiding it.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

snurl wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:Because I don't think they pay FW. It is easier for them to have FW do all their work and take the profit. However, that sounds more evil than it probably is.

Actually thats just about it. Forge World works under license from GW. Kind of like Armourcast used to before they were made redundant.

More than licensed they are owned by GW. I assume they are kept separate for simplicity. It's probably got a lot to do with 'branding' and stuff.

I think you can be certain that somewhere in the FW vaults there is an actual license-contract allowing them to make use of GWs IP. If nothing else, simply to keep things open and above-board, and to help them dealing with other companies.

What would be the point of that? Why would GW need to give itself a contract to use it's own IP?

Steelmage99 wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

snurl wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:Because I don't think they pay FW. It is easier for them to have FW do all their work and take the profit. However, that sounds more evil than it probably is.

Actually thats just about it. Forge World works under license from GW. Kind of like Armourcast used to before they were made redundant.

More than licensed they are owned by GW. I assume they are kept separate for simplicity. It's probably got a lot to do with 'branding' and stuff.

I think you can be certain that somewhere in the FW vaults there is an actual license-contract allowing them to make use of GWs IP. If nothing else, simply to keep things open and above-board, and to help them dealing with other companies.

No, you really can't.

Do you know why?

You're confusing two separate companies.

There was another company called Forge World that did operate under license from GW and made the kinds of things that Forge World does now. They either went under or were bought out by ArmorCast.

Few years later, GW opened up their Forge World.

Forge World is wholly owned by GW, but I believe (though I'm not certain) that it's set up as it's own company, and is therefore seperate legal entity. As such, there would likely be a contract between the two companies over IP and other elements.


As for why GW has Forge World as a seperate thing? It's a branding thing, Forge World focusses on all the odd but cool stuff, that you can't just put into your regular armies without permission, or use at tournaments. I think the idea is that they can still release all those hobby projects and cool stuff, without needing to give it official rules support.

sebster wrote:Forge World is wholly owned by GW, but I believe (though I'm not certain) that it's set up as it's own company, and is therefore seperate legal entity. As such, there would likely be a contract between the two companies over IP and other elements.


As for why GW has Forge World as a seperate thing? It's a branding thing, Forge World focusses on all the odd but cool stuff, that you can't just put into your regular armies without permission, or use at tournaments. I think the idea is that they can still release all those hobby projects and cool stuff, without needing to give it official rules support.

Sebster, you are clearly defining the situation as I understand it. However, it's more than common in this kind of situation, to share a common structural pattern for similar services (like Customer service or sales organisation) and to promote crossed sales (if the terms I use are incorrect, please forgive me, I'm trying to translate French business terms, don't hesitate to make a correction if you know the English equivalent).

So why isn't there more links? A common order preparation service? In other words, why is there no visible attempt to improve Forge World sales system so that it could reach GWs standard in this domain?

The best reason for it that I can think of is that new starters don't have the modeling skills to deal with resin products. It's not until you have gotten used to dealing with plastic and metal that it becomes realistic to expect someone to be able to deal with the challenges that resin can present.

The fact is that a lot of people struggle with resin issues, as with every manufacturer there are upsides and down (don't derail this thread into a quality bashing one). Resin requires an extra amount of thought and care, not found in most plastic/metal minis. Keeping the websites separate means that as people become more competant there is more chance of the minis being used in a worth fashion.

BrookM wrote:

RanTheCid wrote:The resin product really needs to have its own brand identity to set separate expectations about cost, quality and delivery times.

Oh yes, especially those three.

From FW it will cost a lot, have hit or miss quality, and take a long time.

In all seriousness...FW quality and delivery speed seem to be directly related to the cost of the item/order...spend a lot and it tends to be well made and ship quickly. Order a couple small items...they are likely to be poor quality and you will wait a good while for them.

For the same reason any other company with several subsidiaries does this kind of thing - branding. Yum! Brands owns four or five different fast food chains and keeps them distinct because they service different demographics. FW and GW are the same; FW appeals to one segment of the hobby population and GW appeals to another. There's a lot of overlap between the two (inevitably, since both companies make models for the same or at least mutually compatible rule sets) but that's no different than the fact that many people enjoy both KFC and Pizza Hut.

There is no listing with Companies House for Forge World but curiously 7 listings for Games Workshop (with a further 4 disolved).

This would indictae that they are very definitely the same company but FW is a division of GW.

I would suggest that this is purely a branding and product seperation exercise. It would also allow GW to close down FW operations if they so chose with no impat on the main lines (calm down - not that this is what I an suggesting!)

On the subject of FWs quality and customer service I have always found them to be exemplary.

notprop wrote:On the subject of FWs quality and customer service I have always found them to be exemplary.

You also live in the UK, where you can call them during business hours and have items shipped domestically. By all accounts FW tries pretty hard with international orders, they just aren't as good about answering emails, they're only open during the UK day, and they don't have a toll free number to call.

when I have a problem with a GW product, I have a replacment usually within 2-3 days. That hasn't been the experience of most hobbyists with FW, at least not from the US. And that's fine, but its' one reason not to fold the two together.

Why would you expect a replacement within 2-3 days when ordering from overseas? Or for a company to be answering the phones 24hours a day?

Not answering emails - there isn't really an excuse for that, and it is something they're poor at.

For the amount of money they ask for some of the stuff they pass off as a "product" you'd expect more service.

Mad4Minis wrote:

BrookM wrote:

RanTheCid wrote:The resin product really needs to have its own brand identity to set separate expectations about cost, quality and delivery times.

Oh yes, especially those three.

From FW it will cost a lot, have hit or miss quality, and take a long time.

In all seriousness...FW quality and delivery speed seem to be directly related to the cost of the item/order...spend a lot and it tends to be well made and ship quickly. Order a couple small items...they are likely to be poor quality and you will wait a good while for them.

At least as far as delivery speed that has everything to do with the carrier and not FW. Bigger packages tend to ship quicker than small packages, alot of that is how they're sorted by the carrier. Although having spent ridiculous amounts on FW over many orders, I've always found the shipping to be pretty quick for an international shipment. I always went with standard shipping rather than express shipping, which I believe in every occasion was First Class Royal Mail.

The quality is another matter. I've have some casts that weren't great but perfectly usable, and others that barely had a trace of a mold line. Thing is most people tend to complain on forums rather than contact the company for a replacement.(Not a shot at you, just something I've seen many times.)

That's slight off-topic but I think Brook M's point covers the reason why they are separate, along with the other points about product branding.

Mad4Minis wrote:
In all seriousness...FW quality and delivery speed seem to be directly related to the cost of the item/order...spend a lot and it tends to be well made and ship quickly. Order a couple small items...they are likely to be poor quality and you will wait a good while for them.

Incorrect. Fastest order I've got from them was an order for 2 Krieg Engineer sets. Took 5 days from UK to Colorado USA.

Also of interest: just received an order from them(took exactly 7 days), and it arrived in a box marked Games Workshop instead of Forge World(as in previous orders).