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I am beginning to build my IG army, just started reading the codex and throwing around a few lists on paper and talking to my friends about it. I was at work last night and had a brilliant idea, why don't I build my armies color scheme around an actual army from history? Wow, a brilliant idea on my part, it would add some serious flavor to my army. Then I got the idea, why don't I build an army based on my heritage? Well this is where the dilemma comes into play, I am of German decent and I would really like to build an army based around the German uniforms of WWII. I know the moment you read this people are going to say, "Hey, he wants to build a Nazi army!!!!!" Those are the kind of statements that I am trying to avoid. I usually only game with my close friends but I have thought about getting out to hobby shops and trying to get some games in. This is where I am morally conflicted, I want to build a German based army, and no I am not going to be adding swastika's on them or anything of that nature. I just really enjoy history and I think it would be kind of bad ass to build a heritage themed army. My main concern is that I don't want to offend anyone that I might meet along the road of gaming, am I just being over dramatic or do I have a valid reason for concern, please post all advice you have for me. I apologize that this was a bit of a ramble but I needed to make sure I got everything off my chest that I needed to. Thank you again.

I think your concern is a valid one. Some people could get upset/offended by that theme. But to be honest, your buying the stuff, your painting it, your playing with it. You can do what you want with it. And if all the people you will be playing with mostly, are fine with it then it shouldn't be a problem. But say if you took them to a tournament, you should maybe be prepared to get a couple of disapproving looks/comments....

There are plenty of German themed armies...
Steel legion and the Death Korps both draw inspiration from WWI and WWII Germany (And France but lets not get into that)
Go for it, as long as you don't put offensive symbols on them (Swastika) then it'll be fine.

As Purplefood said, so long as you don't throw Swastika's on it, then you should be fine.

I think many would admit, it's a good looking theme, I'd just ensure that:

It's an Imperial Guard army first and German Themed second.

I'd have to agree with what as been said already. If all your doing is using the color scheme and not the symbols then you should be fine. Besides chances are half the people you'd play against in the hobby stores probably wouldn't even know that was your theme unless you told them. So go ahead and go for it. You gotta make and paint the army that makes you happy and help you enjoy it. No point in having an army that you don't like the looks of.

Most people probably won't even notice (a lack of any symbols makes it hard to identify more than black/grey/brown). Those that do will most likely be history buffs and will appreciate the army from a historical standpoint.

A very few will recognize it and take offense. If you don't mind occasionally being called a bigot, go ahead. If you do mind, don't.

You could also go with a non-WW2 German military look. Perhaps a Prussian look?

This question has come up several times over the years on Dakka, so it has been thoroughly discussed.

If you put swastikas on them, I guarantee there will be trouble.

As long as you avoid swastikas you should be fine.

The modern German army uses field grey uniforms and has the iron cross as part of its insignia.

There is nothing more offensive about doing 1940's German than there is 1870's Zimbabwean or 1740's Serbian.

It's a uniform color scheme, not a personal, eternal and undying pledge to a historical socio-political system.

I voted "do it," but as Kilkrazy already said, many people have done this in the past-avoid the "no-no symbol" and don't dress up to match your army or draw any little black mustaches on any of your minis and you should be fine.

This argument happens a lot with both German & Soviet themed armies. Germans, well it's obvious & the soviets because, let's face it Stalin is worth approximately least 3.3 hitlers on the death-o-meter. (6 Million Vs a rough estimate from many sources of 20 Million) So I say go ahead just don't go slapping around swastikas and not expect some funny & more likely, angry looks.

timetowaste85 wrote:I voted "do it," but as Kilkrazy already said, many people have done this in the past-avoid the "no-no symbol" and don't dress up to match your army or draw any little black mustaches on any of your minis and you should be fine.

Actually I'd haveto say that if you did put a little black mustache on one of the officers I'd find it pretty funny. But then again I laugh at most things that are inappropriate so you might wanna think about that. But go to the FLGS and kinda feel out the crowd and see what the feelings are there.

This remains me of those threads about a certain confederate themed guard army...

But seriously, go for it. Hell, people play FoW as Germans.

Just no swastikas, but that should be obvious.

I would say swastika bad, Iron Cross good.

In all seriousness, the Iron Cross was used more than the swastika, at least in the field. Therefore, don't go painting red armbands on your soldiers. Not because it would offend anyone, but because that is unrealistic.

Also, the nazis were damned good dressers, and I am personally a fan of the WWII german uniforms (sans swastikas). Plus, you have to admit, the waffen SS symbol is really cool looking, if you can look past the stigma.

its pretty much this:
SS=bad
Wehrmacht=good

Groan. Honestly, if you're concerned about it even a bit, I wouldn't do it. Unless you're dead set upon this with such conviction that you wouldn't rationalize it by seeking someone else to tell you it's okay, then you're going to be pretty miserable the first time someone freaks out at you for it. And someone WILL freak out on you, warranted or otherwise. It's how people are. If you do it anyway, you would avoid the majority of abuse by avoiding armbands and obvious iconography. Iron Cross I'd say is okay because it's a symbol that's survived into modern time.

The huge question I have, other than due to it being pop history, why WW2? WW1 was iconic as well, and then you get to build those awesome pigsticker helmets:



Also, why are the evil military states always the snappiest dressers? Seriously, check out Gadafi. He looks like something from Sgt. Pepper's Band:

Evil people have a better sense of style?

I dunno, most seem to say "Go for it, no swasticas"

If you come to me and say "My army is based on WWII german's army" and it had every detail, even the swasticas, I'd be ok, since I'll assume you aimed to historical accuracy.

I painted my Krieg in SS colours. No one complained. In fact, a few people thought it looked pretty cool. You gotta admit, for all the horrible things the Nazis did, they knew how to dress well.
Just stay away from any symbols that could suggest that they're actually Nazis. That has no place in 40k.

Dark wrote:I dunno, most seem to say "Go for it, no swasticas"

If you come to me and say "My army is based on WWII german's army" and it had every detail, even the swasticas, I'd be ok, since I'll assume you aimed to historical accuracy.

Well, yeah. I mean, the swastika is just a picture to me. It's not really a symbol of anything. Honestly, I'd be okay if you made everything so accurate as to actually GS a toothbrush mustache onto your CCS. Not my place to judge one way or the other. WW2 doesn't affect me personally as I come from a line of farmers and horsethieves; We don't have many war heroes. I was personally judging from a "at what point does the emotional populace see an issue here" stance. My estimate is that as long as it lacks armbands and the "no-no symbol" then most people will suspend disbelief and not even question it.

Well, the same can be said of other armies, like the Red Army, and I'm sure that a lot of people is most than aware of what a Political Comissair was

If you're going to do it, don't use blatant Waffen SS or Nazi symbols, and use a more traditional Iron Cross instead of a Balkenkreuz. If the visual impact of some imagery suits you, modify it. I sorta took the Rune thing that many German units sported and created my own based on that, without any real connection to any historical events or political ideologies.

You can see it on the tank here
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/Vaktathi/100_0752.jpg

I'm using Pig Iron Kolony Militia heads on Cadians with my 2nd IG army (the first being DKoK which already has that whole imagery thing down), so I've got a bunch of tanks with runic symbols, and troops sporting Stahlhelms and gas maksed troops, but I have never gotten a complain or any negative comments.

Keep in mind that GW already produces two very German themed model lines. The Steel Legion and Death Korps of Krieg. The Steel Legion have Fallschirmjaeger style helmets and very Wehrmacht style harnesses and boots, and the DKoK speaks for itself.

A dude at my shop has a Death Corps army that is painted like SS. Hes even got the little red armbands with the swazi on them. Not to mention a dozen Valkyries painted with the German Air Force's symbol.

Its not a big deal to me, but I could see how it would be to someone who had strong feelings about what happened during the world wars. I think that as long as it is done tastefully it is no different from playing a German army in FoW.

Well, about people having strong feelings, I'd be amazed if I get to play against an 84 years old veteran, go figure.

If that was the case, I'm friend's of families who lost someone against the UK navy and I'm not hating all things brittish.

daedalus wrote:The huge question I have, other than due to it being pop history, why WW2? WW1 was iconic as well, and then you get to build those awesome pigsticker helmets:

German/Nazi WW2 uniforms were intentionally designed with 'fashion' in mind; sharp lines, stylish and angular cut, bold and intimidating ensemble but in an aesthetically pleasing way. No matter how you slice it, WW2 Germans made for a 'pretty' army. Heer to a lesser extent than SS, but still valid.

By contrast, just about every other army looks dumpy and rumpled. Pigsticker kaiser helmets are cool, but trench coats and jackboots have the 'quintessential bad guy appeal'.

OMG why would you care.

Its your money, your army, your time in painting them, and if someone had a prob. with it just tell them to get over it.

They would be the ones infrengeing on "your" rights by trying to force there views and on you.

Just because they may have some hang up over history does not in anyway make it your prob.

daedalus wrote:Also, why are the evil military states always the snappiest dressers?

Yeah, what?



That's generalissimo SIR to you!

daedalus wrote:Seriously, check out Gadafi. He looks like something from Sgt. Pepper's Band:

The only problem is that they never age well...



As for the moustache, it's called a Toothbrush, and it was used long before and after hitler. I mean, seriously, does this guy look evil to you?



Because really, center guy on the top, Adolph Hitler, or Paolo Iashvili?

Paint them how you like, just stay away from actual Nazi insignia or even slogans written in German (¬¬) or you'll ruffle some feathers. My own army's inspired by a bunch of alternative history series, the main, the Kereboros saga, is what most of my infantry are based on, but "based" is the word as I've altered them enough to fit my own aestetic ideas about what a soldier in the 41st Millenium should look like, so bye bye to the iron eagles and hello to a mix of umpteen titbits from many other soldiers throughout fiction and nonfiction. So if you make up your own insignia-or steal it from another real life nation-, and you should be fine as you aren't applying the scheme to actual models of circa WWII troops are you? =P

Something to clear up real quick.

"Wehrmacht"="Defense Forces". All arms of the german military including Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.

Waffen SS were part of the "Wehrmacht".

The non-political German Army was (and still is) the "Heer".

So "Wehrmacht"=Heer+Waffen SS+Kriegsmarine+Luftwaffe+Adbwehr (intelligence service)

Going with the color theme, there's no problem, as many poster's have said here.

I am absolutely floored at the amount of people latching onto WWII being the reason people might have a problem with it. No one (or not many) is going to have a problem with a WWII German themed army because they lost a family member in the war, or almost anything else to do with the actual 'war,' but rather the people (which should be everyone) who take offense at the atrocities outside of the war efforts that the WWII German uniforms bring to mind, and that you are in danger of appearing that you are promoting if you take it too far.

The general rule with things like this is that if you feel like you should ask if you can do it, you probably shouldn't.