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and im wondering were to start with them any help is apreciated.
oh and some outlines of what im goin with!
-elrad utwan (sp?)
-dire avengers
-gaurdian jet bikes
-fireprisms
-howling banshees

Anything ineed to take or add?

I'm so sorry!

Anyway, grab wave serpents and fire dragons. the FD make land raiders cry.

ok Thanks! and why so sorry?

Quoting myself from yesterday:

If you want tactics and army builds for Eldar which currently work, I'd recomment reading Flavius_Infernus' five battle reports from the Conflict GT last month, and Blackmoor's battle reports from last year, and their posts in the Tactics forum. Flavius ran mech Eldar with a ton of S6 shooting, and Blackmoor runs what is nicknamed "footdar".

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/527.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/195.page

My buddy loves using Farseers + warlocks, a d cannon, and then pathfinders. He also loves howling banshees. Other than that I'm not sure what you should use. I heard each eldar unit has a very specific role... so just make sure your roles mesh and that you have enough versatility to handle different situations that'll occur.

My current setup which has been performing pretty well in the local tourney scene is:

Heavy-
2x Prisms, 3x Warwalkers (scatter lasers)

Troops-
2x Dire Avengers (10x w/Exarch, Dual Shuris, and Bladestorm) in Wave Serpents (Scatter lasers or Shuri Cannons depending on points)

Elite-
2x Dragons (5x no exarch) in Wave Serpents (Scatter lasers or Shuri Cannons depending on points)

HQ-
Eldrad & Autarch

--------------------------------

If you are just starting and trying to figure out what to buy first, I would suggest a serpent and avengers.

Enjoy the eldar!

id suggest selling the eldar you have and picking up DE or orks. lol. j/k

n topic, vypers are good if you dont have any. load them with shurikin cannons and (scatter lazer?) for TONS of str 6 shots. ive seen a trio of these wipe infnatry units off the board in a single round. and they are fast to boot.


but seriously... if you like cheese i have an extra triple cheese pizza i can send you..

The "i'm so sorry" stuff is tongue in cheek humor about the power level of eldar...

I'm sure the posters are all pretty much joking. A full mech eldar army is perfectly competitive.

Those are some great links you were given earlier. I'd read up... And Flavius Infernus is an excellent source of information.

But in a nutshell... mech or foot, eldars "thing" is just an unbelievable amount of strength 6 shooting. This strength 6 shooting can either move VERY well, or can be deployed non-traditionally. The stength 6 spam can handle space marine predators (due to its tricky deployment or supreme maneuverability) space marine rhinos and razorbacks, imperial guard chimeras, dark eldar anything, tyranids (if you spammed it enough) and any infantry out there. There are two/three pretty big catagories of things it can't handle, one of them is obviously land raiders and leman russes, the guys with HEAVY side armor. So most eldar armies include one or two units of fire dragons for exactly that problem. Another problem they run into is vehicles with side armor 12. Things like vendettas, stormravens, dreadnoughts and other eldar vehicles raise huge red flags, because strangely, almost all of the side armor 12 stuff is also quite maneuverable, which kills one of your big defensive bonuses (hiding). You can obviously use fire dragons on these targets as well, but unlike land raiders and leman russes, there is a potential for an opponent to be fielding a lot of these targets. Thats why a lot of eldar players manage to squeeze in some long range strength 8 into their lists as well. the last potential concern is 2+ armor saves, particularly 2+/3++. Strength 6 can be used, but the amount of effort that needs to be expended just to eliminate one assault terminator unit is pretty over the top. However there isn't a lot to do about that... I think you just use the strength 6 and maybe the melta and hope there are enough failed saves. At least the 2+ armor stuff for the most part is pretty slow. But something like a tyrannofex screened by termagants or obilterators in cover would be fairly frustrating to deal with.

Ok, how about we look at what can bring those guns we talked about...

Kills stuff with 13-14 side armor - fire dragons, harlequins with fusion pistols, autarchs with fusion guns, wraithlord bright lances and CC attacks, avatar, wave serpents with twin linked bright lances, guardians with bright lance platforms (and guide support from a farseer), and warlock cc attacks and singing spears.

Kills the side armor 12 stuff - All of the above plus falcons with EMLs, fire prisms, vypers with EMLs, war walkers with EMLs, wraithlords with EML/brightlance, wave serpents with twin linked EML

Strength 6 spammers - wave serpent with twin linked scatter laser and shuriken cannon, vypers with scatter laser and shuriken cannon, war walkers with scatter lasers, warp spiders, guardians with scatter lasers (and guide support), night spinner


Note that there are a few other ways to do all of these things. For example you could take a wraithlord with a scatter laser and a shuriken cannon, but I'm primarily listing the most popular ways people get these particular guns.

Hope that was a help

Is it really worth meching the Eldar up? Because that will cost a ton of money...

GoldenKaos wrote:Is it really worth meching the Eldar up? Because that will cost a ton of money...

Aboslutely!

Eldar tanks can be deceiving due to the fact that they are all Front / Side 12 and Rear 10, but they are incredibly difficult to kill! Between the free energy field of the serpents and the holofields that the rest of the tanks have, your enemies will have to devote some serious firepower to take out your tanks. This will ensure that your S6 spam, which the poster before is right in it being the competitive Eldar strategy in today's metagame, is going to be around long enough to deliver the punch that it needs. Another HUGE benefit to meching up, as with any army, is the insurance that your troops will have the best chance possible to get where they are needed most. Add these things on top of the Eldar mobility and you have a very competitve force, even though it is a bit dated.

Foot Eldar are fun, but I have found that they aren't nearly as reliable as a mech force in today's metagame.

*Edit: Spelling errors!*

Cost is a relevant determinant in this choice... if you can't swing it... don't do mech.

An even more relevant determinant is what you think will be fun to play and will "look the coolest". You are going to be the one building and painting these guys. In order to bring a project to completion, the love has got to be there.

If you really liked the guardian models, eldrad and black and cream ulthwe colors... then there is definitely a guardian spam, war walker, avatar, wave serpent half mech footdar list that would be mostly competitive.

If you want to go purely foot, eschewing mech entirely for whatever reason... A yellow and blue iyanden ghost army can be made to do well (but talk about expensive, those wraithguard would need to be found used) with some harelquins and some of the great wraithlord models.

If tournament victories are rated as a high priority for you, I would add to the sentiment that you should plump for the mech army... but if a challenge is what you are looking for, and an army you love looking at and painting, or a local game store is your main gaming experience, then you can go a ton of different ways. Just keep a good mix of strength 6, 8, and fusion/strength 10.

As a player who started mech eldar, I will say that the army is very enjoyable.

I picked Eldar 2 years ago, it was because if I was going to be playing a sci fi game I wanted to play a sophisticated alien race with fun technology.
My choices were Tau ( I came close to choosing, but found them too one dimensional),
Dark Eldar (I had never played 40K and heard they were even tougher than Eldar to pick up, they also hadn't been updated in about 20 years, and hadn't gotten new models since the soviet union... but I hear things are better for our dark brethren now. too bad they are still totally overshadowed by twilight marines.
and Eldar, (which I ultimately picked- besides, Eldar have the BEST toy spaceships. zoom.)

At this point my list isn't totally 100% mech, I accompany my Serpents and Prisms with Guardian Jetbikes and Warp Spiders (at 2000 points).

My 1500 all comers list contains nearly all of the units you want to, and it plays well enough. Its not bleeding edge competitive, but it undeniably gets the job done. take a gander at it and see what youthink

Akaean's 1500 wrote:

HQ: 95
Farseer- Warding, Doom

Elites: 497
5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon

10 Howling Banshees- exarch, executioner, acrobatic
Wave Serpent- tl eldar misile launcher, underslung cannon

Troops: 678
10 Dire Avengers- exarch, 2 catapults, bladestorm
Wave Serpent- tl lance

10 Storm Guardians + warlock- 2 flamers, destructor
Wave Serpent- tl lance

3 Gu Bikes + Warlock- cannon, spear, embolden

Heavy Support: 230
Fire Prism

Fire Prism

This guy is an eldar tourney player who uses a lot of different styles of lists and is pretty good with his batreps/tactics

http://yriel.blogspot.com/

He did well at the Sprue Posse Grand Prix here in LA and that was a pretty tough battleground

I am not an eldar player but word around the net is howling banshees pale in comparison to striking scorpions. Just a heads up. Give the SS a second looks before buying th HBs.

Mannahnin wrote:Quoting myself from yesterday:

If you want tactics and army builds for Eldar which currently work, I'd recomment reading Flavius_Infernus' five battle reports from the Conflict GT last month, and Blackmoor's battle reports from last year, and their posts in the Tactics forum. Flavius ran mech Eldar with a ton of S6 shooting, and Blackmoor runs what is nicknamed "footdar".

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/527.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/195.page

These lists are too extreme.
Flavius' list is optimized for 1750 pt tournament play which is purely shooty relying on reserve.
Blackmoor's lists usually contain footslogging elements which makes it hard to play for beginners.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey Mannahin, now you're starting to cite yourself.
Seems you have reached a higher state...Lol

Deuce11 wrote:I am not an eldar player but word around the net is howling banshees pale in comparison to striking scorpions. Just a heads up. Give the SS a second looks before buying th HBs.

Banshees kill Armor 3+, while Scorpions kill hordes. Banshees have fleet, but Scorpions have 3+ Armor and Infiltrate. Basically, Banshees target MEQs (especially if the enemy is Doomed) and should have a Wave Serpent, while Scorpions kill hordes and can be infiltrated, outflanked, or use a wave serpent. The main issue with both is that they eat up an elite slot that some players use for Fire Dragons, and Wave Serpents aren't assault transports.

I'd give combat a miss all together and take more guns...

If I am reading this correctly 1 vyper can have 7 str 6 shots?
And a warwalker can put out 8 str 6 shots right?

And all of these can be bought in packs of 3, that is alot of str 6!

Meching up is indeed a good ultimate direction. It can take a lot of funds and time, though. If you want to start fairly light, try 2x Wave Serpents for Fire Dragons (5-6 each) plus one more for another unit, perhaps Dire Avengers or maybe those Banshees.

Assault troops are pretty weak in Eldar armies right now but to the close-topped transports, but I'm guessing something will be done to remedy that when the codex gets redone. And they're fun for specific scenarios or friendlies. Of all the assault units, Banshees are the most killy (when combined with Doom).

The S6 doom army can also be fun. Warwalkers are great models. Warp Spiders are also a useful unit for that. I frequently use 6-10 with no exarch etc. whenever I'm not running pure mech.

If you're short on time and cash, skip the jetbikes. Although fun to play, the models are definitely going to be redone with the next codex, and they're going to be much cooler than the current coneheads. And Warp Spiders can honestly do many of the same things better (except scoring, of course).

And never, ever take any crud from anyone for taking Eldrad a lot. Given codex creep, he's pretty average these days.

One thing you DO want to do if you go mech (or relaly just want to period) is to magnetize all your optional choices, especially weapons. Not only does it allow you to tailor your list (either as you discover your favorite loadouts or to customize for certain opponents/events), but it will also allow you to flex with codex edition changes etc.

CKO wrote:If I am reading this correctly 1 vyper can have 7 str 6 shots?
And a warwalker can put out 8 str 6 shots right?

And all of these can be bought in packs of 3, that is alot of str 6!

Correct on both counts.

However, the Vyper is not moving if it's pumping out that many shots, and is within 24" (very bad for AV10 open-topped). So many folks prefer an Eldar Missile Launcher plus shuricannon loadout: that's either 1 S4 template shot (pinning) plus 3 S6 (for close-in work) or 1 S8 anti-armor shot for cracking transports at 48". YMMV widely though: playtest and see which suits your style better. I like the first, more flexible variant.

The warwalkers are great though. Just keep enemy CC tarpits (esp those with powerfists) away from them.

I killed a Hive Tyrant once with a full 10-man squad of Dire Avengers with Bladestorm with doom and guide both on.

Just saying..