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Alright so you take an archon and switch his CCW for a poison blade and take a husk blade for his pistol.

Does this mean he will wound on a 2+ due to the poison blade and instant kill because of the husk blade?

If only things were that good for the Dark Eldar.

In short, no they don't get that as you fall under the two different special weapons clause on page 42. Which means you have to chose which weapon you will strike with that turn, and you get no bonus attack.

No, typically you can only get the benefits of one special weapon at a time (GW sometimes reverses this in FAQs for specific cases).

No. When fighting in close combat, a model can only fight with one of its Special Close Combat Weapons, the items you have listed being of that kind.

No!

You cannot combine the effects of two special weapons.

According to the BRB (I'm sorry I don't know what page I don't have it on me) you must choose which special weapon you will use during the combat. You cannot split special weapon attacks either. You must choose one of the weapons and use it for the whole combat. You can, however, split attacks as he is an Independent Character but you cannot use two different weapons.

Thanks - Now onto another - DE takes two djinn blades
so 4 base attacks +1 for attacks and then
2 sets of djinn blade attacks for 9 total - 10 on the charge.
Downside is any doubles rolled will be hits on you but 3+ to hit for 10 attacks sounds like enemy mince meat. Add in a soul trap and potentially 10 S7 or S10 attacks. Sounds mighty good to me.

The ability to take multiples is open to debate as far as I know so I won't touch on that.

I have to say, how many times have you known an IC taken out by S3 attacks. It can happen with luck but chances are your soul trap will rarely be triggered.

Just a thought.

PS: how is that a question?

Djinn blades themselves are screwy.

The Implied intent seems that they are not actually Special CCWs themselves, but instead are wargear that allow their own special bonus power weapon attacks.

However as worded they are themselves special CCWs and therefore can be used(and must if you only have normal weapons) by themselves as PW attacks with the bonus attacks, and if paired with a second different special CCW then no 2-weapon bonus attacks could ever be gained. Also note that only the bonus attacks provided by the djinn blades need worry about the doubles issue(I suggest different colored dice).

It is something that could be worked out with your opponent pre-game: RAW or Implied intent.

As for the taking 2 of them on the same guy; strictly forbidden. You can only take 1 each of the items on that list.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Djinn blades themselves are screwy.

The Implied intent seems that they are not actually Special CCWs themselves, but instead are wargear that allow their own special bonus power weapon attacks.

However as worded they are themselves special CCWs and therefore can be used(and must if you only have normal weapons) by themselves as PW attacks with the bonus attacks, and if paired with a second different special CCW then no 2-weapon bonus attacks could ever be gained. Also note that only the bonus attacks provided by the djinn blades need worry about the doubles issue(I suggest different colored dice).

It is something that could be worked out with your opponent pre-game: RAW or Implied intent.

As for the taking 2 of them on the same guy; strictly forbidden. You can only take 1 each of the items on that list.

what the current load out does allow is that the Djinn Blade doe snot replace the CCW.
SO you can take a Djinn Blade and a blaster and still count as having 2 weapons(a Djinn Blade and a CCW). Thus you can have the blaster, instead of a blast pistol. Ends up giving you triple the range.

If you have a soul trap you can power it up with the blaster and then overkill yourself with the Djinn Blade in the first CC. Very useful when you want to make a DE detachment ally for some orkz.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Djinn blades themselves are screwy.

The Implied intent seems that they are not actually Special CCWs themselves, but instead are wargear that allow their own special bonus power weapon attacks.

There is absolutely no such implied intent.

The Huskblade is a special close combat weapon and therefore you do not get to use its special rules in combat unless you actually use it to fight. There is no implication anywhere that the bonus attacks provided by the Huskblade aren't part of this basic rule.

In fact, GW's ruling regarding a model wieiding an animus viate and a Huskblade makes this crystal clear. The animus vitae is defined as a special close combat, but just like the Djinn Blade's bonus attacks, its special rules do not clearly indicate that it has to be used in close combat to benefit. However, GW's makes it clear in the FAQ that this is not the case.

If you don't utilize a special weapon in combat then you don't benefit from any of its special rules.

So if you're not fighting with a Djinn Blade then you're not getting *any* of its special rules.

Yak: my meaning is that if you look at the Djinn blade's rules the bearer makes 2 bonus attacks with the blade no matter what weapon they are using in CC. Let's take your huskblade as an example.

RAW an Archon with huskblade, Blast pistol, and Djinn blade makes 4 attacks(5 on the charge) with either the huskblade or the Djinn Blade; while simultaneously making 2 bonus attacks with the Djinn Blade(even if that archon chose to use the huskblade in combat) but can never gain the fighting with 2 weapons bonus attack(as this archon has 2 special CCWs).

If the Djinn blade was worded slightly differently(having the bonus attacks count as power weapon attacks and not specifying it is a power weapon in and of itself); then it's placement in the extra optional gear would make more sense and allow for it's use along with the 2 weapon bonus.

The reason I said Implied intent is the fact that the bearer of the djinn blade always makes the 2 bonus power weapon attacks that have the chance to bite back; no matter what weapon is being used.

Basically my point is that the bearer of the djinn blade makes the bonus attacks, not the user. Of course with the FAQ changing the Animus to not count when not used, I am probably very wrong on this. but then, GW should have also clarified the Djinn Blade while they were clarifying the Animus; which would have taken all of 1 sentence added to the Animus question's answer.

So my point is the Archon has burned the points to take two Djinn blades. 1. I don't see where this is prohibitied.
2. Albeit two special weapons, that to me qualifies for +1 bonus attack for using 2 CCW.

So Arachon (A4) with 2 CCW (+1A) charges (+1A) and gets 6 CC attacts. Then having two djinn blades must roll 2 sets of dice for additional hits with doubles resulting in two attacks on the archon. So potentially 10 attacks.

The Spirit Rack would potentially increase the strength of this mass number of attacks to S7 or S10. *of course one successful hit on the archon would result in instant death*

Several special close combat weapons in 40k use or use the word "bearer" or refer to a "model with" the weapon rather than its "user". You still don't gain the abilities unless you're actually wielding that weapon.

1) It isnt allowed, as you can only select an item from the list once

Thank you Nos I was waiting for someone to bring that up:

Tell that to Ork players. Battle wagon, same basic wording, may take up to 4 from the following list. That list: Rokit Launcha, Big shoota. There are not more than 2 options and permission to take up to 4 items from the list of 2; therefore you may take 4 Big shootas without issue. This has only come up as a "problem" with the advent of the DE Codex and the same wording but limited to 2 items from a list of many.

DE characters can take duplicates of the Arcane wargear(or at least those items that duplicates within the army are allowed).

Kommissar Kel wrote:Thank you Nos I was waiting for someone to bring that up:

Tell that to Ork players. Battle wagon, same basic wording, may take up to 4 from the following list. That list: Rokit Launcha, Big shoota. There are not more than 2 options and permission to take up to 4 items from the list of 2; therefore you may take 4 Big shootas without issue. This has only come up as a "problem" with the advent of the DE Codex and the same wording but limited to 2 items from a list of many.

The difference is that the Battlewagon specifies points per gun.

Or do you want to claim that a Battlewagon can have 20 boarding planks?

"Any of the following" is assumed as "any of the following, once each" So, no.

"Up to X of the following" would be "up to X selections from the following" not necessarily "Up to X individual selections from the following, but only 1 of each"

If I really need to; due to the points per gun, I can change the battle wagon to a Deff dread; which would mean no more Quad DCCW deff dreads

Kommissar Kel wrote:If I really need to; due to the points per gun, I can change the battle wagon to a Deff dread; which would mean no more Quad DCCW deff dreads

And I can counter with the Chaos Daemons codex and the Herald entries with "May have three of the following:".

Shall we then proceed to argue about what a model does when it has three icons of chaos or three 3+ armor saves?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a better idea. How about we ask why we didn't hear GW talking about the massive damage that a 130 point Herald of Khorne on a chariot could do with S8 a power weapon and furious charge? Or the 95 point Herald of Slaanesh on Chariot. You'd think a beast with S6, Rending and Furious Charge might have gotten mentioned. To say nothing of the dual Bolt of Tzeentch chariots of doom for a bargain price of 130 points.

Or there's the alternate hypothesis that GW's simply never bothered to correct the Deff Dread entry to make the quad dccw configuration mentioned in the FAQ possible.

The same thing that it does when it has just 1?

the only thing on the herald list that would have any contention when taken twice(or more) is unholy might; every thing else would do nothing if taken twice, excepting Master of Sorcery and a double of one of the ranged weapon gifts.

Requia wrote:No, typically you can only get the benefits of one special weapon at a time (GW sometimes reverses this in FAQs for specific cases).

Marine players only.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Thank you Nos I was waiting for someone to bring that up:

Tell that to Ork players. Battle wagon, same basic wording, may take up to 4 from the following list. That list: Rokit Launcha, Big shoota. There are not more than 2 options and permission to take up to 4 items from the list of 2; therefore you may take 4 Big shootas without issue. This has only come up as a "problem" with the advent of the DE Codex and the same wording but limited to 2 items from a list of many.

DE characters can take duplicates of the Arcane wargear(or at least those items that duplicates within the army are allowed).

"May take any of the following:
...X Points...
May take a single big:
...X Points...
May take up to 4 of the following:
...X points per gun...." Wagon

"The Deff Dread must take two of the following:
...X Points...
...X Points...
...X Points..." DD obv

"Take up to two of the following pieces...."
Hame

"Take any of the following:...
*May not have both SF and CF"
Archon

So upon re-re-re-reading all of the above I've come to the following conclusions.
'Any' means one may selecet 1 of everything.
'May take up to X' is permission to purchase duplicate copies.
'Must take two of the following' Means that one is requierd to take two of each item in the list.
'Take up to two of the following pieces' Means that one is allowed to take - up to two - of each item.