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Hi guys first of all I'm sorry if you've seen a similar post by me on this topic already, for quite a while I had to put aside many things whilst exams and education took priority, these obviously included Warhammer and in turn this Forum. So to recap, I have a Battalion of Dark Elves and the Sorceress model on foot, finance is tight so I can't afford two War Hydras in one list for example, plastic is my friend in this case. Hopefully this is a good all round list and is economical enough that I don't have to pay an arm and a leg for it.

2,000pts

1x Dreadlord- Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Dawnstone- 215pts
1x Sorceress- Level 2, Tome of Furion, Pendant of Khaeleth- 185pts
1x Assassin- Additional Hand Weapon, Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine, Dark Venom- 161pts
24x Spearmen- Full Command, Shields, Banner of Murder- 208pts
20x Corsairs- Full Command- 225pts
20x Corsairs- Full Command- 225pts
10x Crossbowmen- 100pts
10x Crossbowmen- 100pts
10x Crossbowmen- 100pts
10x Cold One Knights- Full Command- 310pts
10x Shades- Additional Hand Weapons- 170pts

1,999pts

The idea with this list is that the Spearmen form the centre of my battleline with a unit of Corsairs either side, the Cold One Knights would flank on one side whilst the Shades would take the other. The idea with the Assassin is to place him in the unit with the Sorceress, people hoping to kill the Sorceress with a mid-level character or higher for example, would instead find themselves facing an Assassin who has a very real chance of killing them before they can even strike. The Dreadlord would go with the Spearmen so his Leadership can have the best effect and is equipped to deal with something a bit tougher that the Spearmen may have trouble with. I want improvements but don't want a beardy army designed to win every single game, I want it to be fun to play with but of course there will be mistakes or areas of improvement, Thanks

Welcome back!

So, looking at a Battalion box you get 28 Warriors with enough Spears or Crossbows to do as you will with them, 12 shields, 20 Corsairs, and 5 Knights. Obviously you will be extremely troop heavy, but you can still get a decent list out of two boxes + extras.

What about something like this?

Supreme Sorceress - Lv.4, Sacrificial Dagger, 4+ Ward, Lore of Shadow
Master - BSB, Pendant of Khaeleth, Sword of Might
25x Spearmen - Full Command, Shields
10x Crossbows - Musician
10x Crossbows - Musician
20x Corsairs - Musician, Handbows, Banner of Murder
20x Corsairs - Musician, Extra Hand Weapons, Sea Serpent Standard
10x Knights with Banner of Swiftness or Eternal Flame
5x Shades
5x Shades
1x Hydra

Just one Hydra won't set you back too much price-wise; just find a used one or a 20% discount place. There are plenty around. Certainly fairly similar to your posted list, I just think you'd get more overall utility from a Hydra than you would an Assassin.

I think all of that will fit into 2k... I'm at work and going off the top of my head, so you might need to play around a little bit with the numbers. Could drop one of the Shades units or something for points if need be.

Thanks for replying first of all, this is a good list but I really wanted to keep the Dreadlord because of his high Leadership and I like the collectors great weapon model. the assassin is there for the same reason really, i love the model and have some really sneaky plans for him within the game

Plus in my games at the local store not much goes on in the way of magic and id prefer to keep the sorceress level 2.

Out of curiosity why no full command and do you think the banner of murder would go with them better than the spearmen?

secondly i dont think i stated how tight cash is, even with 20% off id find it difficult to raise the money for a Hydra.

sorry if I'm disagreeing with your points because i really dont mean too, all advice is appreciated, please dont take any of these comments in the wrong way but i havent played in a long time

snackajack93 wrote:Thanks for replying first of all, this is a good list but I really wanted to keep the Dreadlord because of his high Leadership and I like the collectors great weapon model. the assassin is there for the same reason really, i love the model and have some really sneaky plans for him within the game

You can use that same model as a Master, there is no rule stating that it must be used as a Dreadlord. I understand enjoying the Ld.10, but a re-rollable Ld.9 or Ld.8 (for those out of the general's bubble) is typically better. Certainly understandable for the Assassin, have fun with it!

Consider picking up better survivability for your Dreadlord. Right now he's susceptible to anything that ignores armor saves. You may consider the Armor of Destiny for a flat 4+ ward, or the Armor of Eternal Servitude for 4+ regen if your opponents don't tend to bring flaming attacks against him.

snackajack93 wrote:Plus in my games at the local store not much goes on in the way of magic and id prefer to keep the sorceress level 2.

What do you mean by this? As in you guys typically just skip the magic phase? Or do you not feel magic particularly benefits your list? In either case, run her as a level two a couple of times but take notice on how often the Dreadlord's stat bonuses makes a significant difference over a Master and compare it to how a single Lv.4 compares to a single Lv.2. You can get away with minimal magic but Dark Elves truly benefit from a strong magic phase, particularly with the Lore of Shadow.

snackajack93 wrote:Out of curiosity why no full command and do you think the banner of murder would go with them better than the spearmen?

I'm assuming you're referring to the Corsairs on this one? I typically don't feel spending another ten points on the Champion is worth just one attack as opposed to another body, but they can be useful as challenge fodder if your opponents tend to bring solo characters such as those on monstrous mounts. On the Knights I'd really prefer to put a Musician in there, I just wasn't sure if I'd have points for it with the other things in the list I posted. Heck, I was probably a little over the 2k limit as it was.

snackajack93 wrote:secondly i dont think i stated how tight cash is, even with 20% off id find it difficult to raise the money for a Hydra.

If that's the case, I'm assuming you are kit-bashing your Shades out of Battalion box parts? Otherwise those ten shades will run you more than a $30 Hydra.

I agree about the Ward Save, right about now I want to make him as tough as possible e.g. armour of darkness and dawnstone, but I agree a ward save is probably necessary. The reason I didn't include one is because I was planning of having the Assassin strike the character fighting the Dreadlord first so the ward save wasn't as necessary.

Is shadow better for dark elf magic rather than dark magic? I can see both points because a level 4 sorceress would really run things in the magic phase, I'll have to put my thinking cap on and see what I can come up with, I'm not sure what I'm saying either if that's any consolation. I agree that trying the Dreadlord and level 2 then a Master and a level 4 is probably the best idea and on the contrary I think magic would greatly benefit this list.

Mainly I like having full command in most infantry regiments because it keeps things simple, and having a model that can challenge can prove useful at my club. I like the idea of having the two beneficial banners (murder and sss) in the corsairs units, it makes them a lot better plus the Spearmen are for anchoring the line rather than actually fighting through units. I was thinking of making the points for a standard of slaughter in the knights, does that sounds wise?

finally I don't know whether or not you can post prices so I'm not going to but in the UK two units of shades works out to be about two thirds the price of a hydra, and depending on the points i may only need one unit. Thanks and again your comments are definitely welcome

Hello, just dropping my two cents (pence?)... I think a hydra would fill a crucial role in this army, from a competitive standpoint. I tend to make my armies in a similar fashion, so I couldn't help but notice you are going to have 11 warrior bodies not included into the second list (which are xbows in the first), these could easily be converted into the shades you want, saving all that £. I would suggest trading a wood elf player for extra cloaked heads (which they all have TONS of extras on sprues), and some capes (or you can make them SUPER easy with greenstuff or a cheaper equivalent). With that savings, and a little bit more of an investment you can have the best of both worlds: variety to use the units that your next battle could use.
Past that I would do a horde of 40 corsairs, supreme sorc/bsb combo, and consider the black dragon egg on him instead of a weapon (6T and a breath weapon is much better in combat than a sword)... Your first list isn't bad, but it doesn't take advantages of the changes in 8th that really benifit delves.

Without being rude I have pointed out that I can't afford a Hydra but I agree that they are great, I'm basing the force on two battalion sets so I want to make as much use of those models as possible, the black dragon egg only lasts for one turn and I'd prefer to stick with the armour etc. I am contemplating a new list however which I shall be uploading soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Right here's another list in which I've upgraded the sorceress to a level 4 supreme and swapped the dreadlord for a master instead.

1x supreme sorceress- level 4, armour of darkness, pendant of khaeleth, tome of furion- 335pts
1x master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, cold one, lance, ring of darkness- 154pts
1x assassin- additional hand weapon, touch of death, rune of kaine, manbane- 171pts
20x corsairs- command- 225pts
20x corsairs- command- 225pts
24x spearmen- command, shields, banner of murder- 208pts
16x crossbowmen- command- 180pts
16x crossbowmen- command- 180pts
10x cold one knights- command, banner of swiftness- 325pts

the idea here is the master accompanies the knights and makes that unit very dangerous and more resilient, the assassin can lurk in the sorceresses unit ready to stop any character engaging her while the rest of the army advances together with the crossbowmen supporting them.

No worries about the Hydra, it's out. As you can tell, we sure love our lizards around here!

As a heads up, the Sorceress cannot take the Armor of Darkness because she cannot wear mundane armor. Without the ability to wear mundane, she can't upgrade to magic. If you're taking her as a Level 2, as in the original list, the Lore of Darkness is very strong thanks to its general mix of utility spells and direct damage spells combined with its low casting costs. This means that since a Lv.2 can only get up to three spells, you'll generally still have a decent magic phase either way. On a Lv.4, she can get away with the Lore of Shadow or Death thanks to a stronger casting bonus (+4 vs. +2) and a fourth spell. I generally wouldn't put the Tome of Furion on a Lv.4 since getting any four of the Lore of Shadow will benefit you, but if you have 15 points left over it couldn't hurt.

Shadow is our preferred lore because its hexes that lower enemy movement, strength, and toughness all directly improve our strengths (maneuverability) and alleviate our weaknesses (low toughness, low strength). Combining the Signature Spell followed up by the Pit of Shades is a nasty combo (helped me get rid of a Grey Seer on Bell) and Occam's Mindrazor turns those Corsairs into a huge threat.

On the Master/Dreadlord (whichever you go with, both can work), the ward save is also very handy against Lore of Death sniping spells, ranged attacks that ignore armor, and things of that ilk. Even if you put him on a Cold One I'd make him a BSB, that way you can re-roll that fateful 10+ roll on your Stupidity check.

Your assassin looks strange, is he over his Gift point limit? I can see the value of having both Manbane and Touch of Death on an assassin since it makes him equally good at killing characters and infantry, but you're generally best serviced by saving points and just picking one or the other. Keep in mind that 5-7 attacks with just Manbane is still devastating to most characters in addition to infantry in case you don't want to rely on that Killing Blow shot to get through.

I've noticed, I wish I had the cash because I'd be purchasing one straight away , I didn't know that actually, in that case I will probably drop her back to a level 2 and the master back to a dreadlord, maybe the manbane isn't necessary, the extra attacks and killing blow with ASF and hatred etc should kill off most characters so maybe manbane is overkill.

If I'm reverting back to a dreadlord I'll drop the cold one and get some magic armour instead because I want his Ld to affect everything. Are there any specific spells on certain units that are killer combo's so to speak?

If you go with killing blow, be sure to get another poison. You don't want to roll a 6 to hit, and do an auto wound that has no shot at killing blow.

I'd make the Master a BSB, keep the level 4 as a level 4, so you have a Ld 9 general.
Also on the Master, I'd take a halberd instead of a lance. You already have plenty of S6 lances in that unit, and 3S5's (most likely with re-rolls to hit every round) would be really nice if you get stuck in combat.

The only thing I'd worry about is you only have a single unit to hammer the enemy with. Should the cold ones get wacked, redirected, or bogged down, you're left with only S3 attacks.

My cheap fix to that would be picking up some tomb king chariots, and swapping out the mounts for cold ones, and crewing them with plastic warriors (all fairly cheap to do).
2x chariots would give you a little more punch that you are missing. (which I would pay for with 20 corsairs, and use the leftover 25 points for the BSB upgrade).

Tomb King Chariot Frame, pulled by new cold ones looks pretty hot.

-Matt

I hadn't thought of the killing blow point but that is a very astute point :p Black Lotus seems the best idea. can you use a halberd whilst mounted? I like the idea of the chariots but prefer big blocks of men, do you have any other alternatives?