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I'm thinking of starting up DE and I want to include some Kabalite Trueborn in my army for some extra firepower. I think MSU in venoms, or coming out of a Webway Portal is a solid strategy, but I'm not sure about weapons loadout.

A couple things I am considering:

x2 Splinter Cannons, x3 Shard Carbines - Lot's of dakka, though not much of a help vs. Vehicles

x2 Splinter Cannons, x2 Blasters - When firing against hordes or tanks, it loese power, but it's good all around

x2 Dark Lances, x3 Shard Carbines - Like the one above, only greater anti-vehicle range (Can't Ravagers do that better anyways?)

I've seen a lot of people advocate the 2x Splinter Cannons and 3x Shard Carbines as the anti-infantry loadout. I agree with this, it's plain nasty.

IMHO, as a DE player, you already have a ton of AT from darklight weaponry.

If you are really paranoid about armor

x4 Blasters in a venom. more than a ravager but packs in an extra shot at short range and can survive after getting shot out of the sky

Anti infantry yea the x3 carbines+x2 cannons if pretty good. If you really want to hurt something add in x4 more carbines and then toss in The Duke for +3 poisons and swap out Venom for Raider (although that may be eggs in a basket syndrome)

Its expensive but I go for a larger squad. 4 blasters, 2 splinter cannons, dracon with blast pistol, and 2 extra troopers for wounds. Put them all in a raider and get them a pain token ASAP.

It melts most squads and can assault to mop up.

Its best if your opponent doesnt know much about DE and doesnt see it as the point sink and threat it is.

Exergy wrote:Its expensive but I go for a larger squad. 4 blasters, 2 splinter cannons, dracon with blast pistol, and 2 extra troopers for wounds. Put them all in a raider and get them a pain token ASAP.

It melts most squads and can assault to mop up.

Its best if your opponent doesnt know much about DE and doesnt see it as the point sink and threat it is.

Ah but then no Venom

kenshin620 wrote:If you are really paranoid about armor

x4 Blasters in a venom. more than a ravager but packs in an extra shot at short range and can survive after getting shot out of the sky

Anti infantry yea the x3 carbines+x2 cannons if pretty good. If you really want to hurt something add in x4 more carbines and then toss in The Duke for +3 poisons and swap out Venom for Raider (although that may be eggs in a basket syndrome)

Hmmm... I never thought of the duke. +3 poision could lay the smackdown out on TWC...

Mustela wrote:
Ah but then no Venom

Yeah I run my 5 man Incubi and another light squad of warroirs in Venoms. I only got around to converting 2. I like the heavier TB squad.

If you have ever faced a mechanized ... anything list, you will feel like DE don't have enough anti tank. I would only entertain options of Blaster x 4 or Dark Lance x 2 configurations + as many extra bodies to soak wounds as you are comfortable with. Give the extra bodies cc weapon and pistol to assist in assault, as they would never be shooting anyways.

I have been running and loving 3 blasters/2 splintercannons in venoms. They have been the MVP in my first two games - check out the batreps. They are gangbusters.

+1 to 3x blaster 2x splintercannon

Very flexible if thats your thing. Perfectly scary to a mech army, but can stay still and shoot like a mini dev squad at targets with a toughness value.

Does the 3 blaster 2 cannon only work in Your list Som? Or are they a "general good lunit"?

I'd say its a general good unit.

I'm not "all about" Venoms and stick to all Raiders instead to make sure that mech lists are fearful.

I use two squads of TB (because I love and have to take Incubi too) in raiders. Being in a raider allows me to add another body, and another blaster.

6xTrueborne w/4xBlaster, 2xSplintercannon, Raider.

Devestating to anything it looks at.

3 Trueborn with two dark lances in a raider gives you a third ravager that can camp at the back of the board.

Ketara wrote:3 Trueborn with two dark lances in a raider gives you a third ravager that can camp at the back of the board.

Ya but that costs 41 points more and con only move 6 inches and fire all the Dark Lances. For those points I'd just take a Razorwing Jetfighter.

When I get back to gaming I plan to try out 3 man TB squads with 2 DL. IMO, it is small enough to be forgotten about in the backfield but it'll pack quite a bit of AT punch.

Also its quite a cheap TB load out coming to 86 pts (IIRC). Stick it in deep cover, maybe pop a tank and watch you opponent fire a full unit on three guys. They'll probably die but if they took out a tank, odds are they've made their points back. I'll admit, its not the most competitive build but it'll be fun to try out...

veritechc wrote:

Ketara wrote:3 Trueborn with two dark lances in a raider gives you a third ravager that can camp at the back of the board.

Ya but that costs 41 points more and con only move 6 inches and fire all the Dark Lances. For those points I'd just take a Razorwing Jetfighter.

Yes. It costs more points.

But if you can't see the ramifications and advantages of having a capacity to field three ravagers, and three ravager equivalents in a mech dominated metagame, you're clearly not used to mathhammering for competitive play.

The Blaster and splinter cannon loadout is nice, but the pseudo-ravager gives you more Long Ranged anti-tank firepower.

In a DE leafblower list, it also means you can run pseudo-ravagers to replace the ravagers that are forced out due to you using up Hvy Support slots with Razorwings/Voidravens with missile loadouts.

The pseudo Ravager also means that even if the tank is destroyed, odds are that the two other dark lances will survive and continue to fire, and weapon destroyed results can only nail one dark lance. Ravagers do not have that advantage.

Shard carbines aren't really worth it for the trueborn, give the extra men ccw and pistols, counter assault tastic. I am glad i am not the only one that advocates this.

Ketara wrote:

veritechc wrote:

Ketara wrote:3 Trueborn with two dark lances in a raider gives you a third ravager that can camp at the back of the board.

Ya but that costs 41 points more and con only move 6 inches and fire all the Dark Lances. For those points I'd just take a Razorwing Jetfighter.

Yes. It costs more points.

But if you can't see the ramifications and advantages of having a capacity to field three ravagers, and three ravager equivalents in a mech dominated metagame, you're clearly not used to mathhammering for competitive play.

The Blaster and splinter cannon loadout is nice, but the pseudo-ravager gives you more Long Ranged anti-tank firepower.

In a DE leafblower list, it also means you can run pseudo-ravagers to replace the ravagers that are forced out due to you using up Hvy Support slots with Razorwings/Voidravens with missile loadouts.

The pseudo Ravager also means that even if the tank is destroyed, odds are that the two other dark lances will survive and continue to fire, and weapon destroyed results can only nail one dark lance. Ravagers do not have that advantage.

I see where you are going with this and I like it. Still think I would use the Trueborn/ Blaster combo as it is more versatile. Plus you get Nightshields for free if you use a venom oh and two splinter cannons.

If ANY Dark Eldar vehicle blows up, kiss your Trueborn/ Wych butt goodbye. I have had whole squads bite the dust in an explosion. A 5+ save sucks, hard. So odds are that your Dark Lance wielding Trueborn are going to have those lances stuck where the stolen suns don't shine.

Now I just have to see how many Razorwing Jetfighters and Truborn/ Blaster/ Venom squads I can cram in a list!

veritechc wrote:

Ketara wrote:

veritechc wrote:

Ketara wrote:3 Trueborn with two dark lances in a raider gives you a third ravager that can camp at the back of the board.

Ya but that costs 41 points more and con only move 6 inches and fire all the Dark Lances. For those points I'd just take a Razorwing Jetfighter.

Yes. It costs more points.

But if you can't see the ramifications and advantages of having a capacity to field three ravagers, and three ravager equivalents in a mech dominated metagame, you're clearly not used to mathhammering for competitive play.

The Blaster and splinter cannon loadout is nice, but the pseudo-ravager gives you more Long Ranged anti-tank firepower.

In a DE leafblower list, it also means you can run pseudo-ravagers to replace the ravagers that are forced out due to you using up Hvy Support slots with Razorwings/Voidravens with missile loadouts.

The pseudo Ravager also means that even if the tank is destroyed, odds are that the two other dark lances will survive and continue to fire, and weapon destroyed results can only nail one dark lance. Ravagers do not have that advantage.

I see where you are going with this and I like it. Still think I would use the Trueborn/ Blaster combo as it is more versatile. Plus you get Nightshields for free if you use a venom oh and two splinter cannons.

If ANY Dark Eldar vehicle blows up, kiss your Trueborn/ Wych butt goodbye. I have had whole squads bite the dust in an explosion. A 5+ save sucks, hard. So odds are that your Dark Lance wielding Trueborn are going to have those lances stuck where the stolen suns don't shine.

Now I just have to see how many Razorwing Jetfighters and Truborn/ Blaster/ Venom squads I can cram in a list!

The squad only takes damage if the vehicle explodes. Since you'll want to shoot with the squad inside, you won't be moving it flat out to be in a position to crash. Open topped vehichles that explode also subtract 1 from the strength of the hit on the chaps inside, meaning the trueborn will get a 4+ to wound, and then a 5+ save. If they have feel no pain from a token as well, odds are, the two with dark lances will survive the blast.

I'm not making out here that its some sort of broken combo, but it is effective at supplementing your long range anti-tank firepower. Against mech Guard, it can be an excellent choice.

What I do personally is run two of these chaps, and then a squad with three blasters/two splinter cannons. Possibly swapping one Trueborn sniper boat for another blastboat as the situation demands.

Plus dark lances are heavy so the passengers can't shoot at all if it moves, right?

The build I like is good vs both mech and no mech and is cheap enough to just throw away. And at 5 dark eldar my foes hate to shoot at it because it is a bit of a waste of their shooting. win/win/win :-)

I tried the 3 blaster 2 cannon combo this weekend and enjoyed it. It was a 1500pt tournament and to save points I made it 3 blasters and 1 cannon. However, in bigger games I'm definitely 3 X 2 with those weapons. I don't think I'll field 3 units of them though as it sucks away your other elite options.

Glad you liked it. Can't wait to read about the tourney.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to do proper batreps as I had dinner reservations and needed to speed things along. However, I can give you a brief run down of how my games went.

First game vs. genestealer heavy bugs in multi objectives. I tabled him.
Second game vs. Deathwing in quasi multi objectives (only three with one in the center). I left him with one speeder.
Third game vs. Kan wall orks +9 meganobs with grotsnik in a KP game playing for 1st place. I lost. Badly. I conceded turn three as he went up 8KPs to 0KPs. His army gives up only 9KPs and mine gives up 16KPs. I may have made the mistake of deploying badly, but I still think that game was a kobayashi maru for me. I don't have the assault punch to kill that many 2+/5+ fearless nobs...and he crippled my shooting where it made getting KPs back impossible. Losing that badly took me out of the runnings. So 2-1. Not too shabby as I took a different build than normal and used a character I never have used before. There is a narrative tournament this weekend. I'll do some batreps with those as I'll be attempting another interesting build to see how it works. Stay tuned.

Nice. What list did you take?

edit: actually, go over here - rather than take this ot I created a list thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/347045.page