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I hear the statement, most the time at GW that "everyone plays Blood Angels" well yes.you do get a lot of people who bandwagon and jump on the new army. But people who play Blood Angels should get a lot more respect. Look thorough the normal Space Marine boom and all the chapters(Crimson Fists, Salamadors, Raven Guard) all benefit from chapter tactics. Something that will help the army. Blood Angels have no character that helps the whole army. Now on the Space Wolves.case their whole boom allows them to be different to have everything be Space Wolves and have many characters that help out. Blood Angels can not be themselves, they can not fill a list full of Furioso's and Death Company. With out being out numbered. The best they can is be normally marines painted red. And mabye take advantage of the one or two rules they get. But pay a lot more points for it(like fast rhinos being 50 points.) This is just my observation does any other Blood Angels player feel the same?

but they are normal marines painted red, they follow the codex astartes aside from a few deviances, namely the death company and their overall preference for assault. The majority of the Blood Angels chapter (fluffwise) fights like codex space marines.

You're not going to have an army made of death company. They are a special unit that is of some rarity in the chapter. it's not like raven guard who's whole tactical approach to battle is stealth and rapid infiltration, or the salamanders who pride themselves on the quality of their weapons to such a level that they don't require the adeptus mechanicus to craft their armor and weapons for them.

Well, chapter tactics and an entire codex means very different things. What exactly do you feel like BA are missing? The costs are different, but BA are much more than "marines painted red":
- Fast, Scouting Predators in the FA slot
- Dreadnoughts in the Elite Slot
- Flying Librarian Dreadnoughts
- Dreadnoughts in the Troop Slot
- Assault Squads as Troops
- Dreadnoughts with Lightning Claws
- Cheap LasPlas RBs
- Beefed up Apothecaries
- Death Company
- Deepstriking Landraiders
- Stormravens
- Fast Vehicles
- Sanguinary Guard as troops (w/ Dante)
- More accurate deep-striking (DOA)
- Red Thirst

I mean, there are some parts of the codex that are weak. I'm not sure BA libbys are as good as C:SM libbys, and captains are just...they're bad. But look at it this way, if everything in the codex was good, we'd be Space Wolves

As a sidenote, there are definitely SC's that benefit the rest of your army. Astorath gives a huge swathe of your army (basically anything but HQs and vehicles) a 50% chance at Red Thirst. The Sanguinor boosts a sergeant and has a bonus attack bubble. Tycho gives everyone his LD for morale, iirc.

I guess what it comes down to is this: If you try to build a vanilla marine list with the BA codex, it's not going to feel like a strong list - overpriced, less options, etc. But if you build a BA list that focuses on what the BA bring uniquely to the table, then you will understand why our codex is so powerful.

Chapter Tactics and Combat Tactics are there because they're trying to cram some 6 (I think, could be more) different type of codex chapters into one book. If BA was intergrated into the standard marine codex, whoever their main character is (I'm guessing most likely Dante or Mephiston) would exchange the entire army's Combat Tactics for Fast vehicles, Furious charge and give the possibility of Rage (not exactly how it would end up, but giving you an example of how it's done). It's the same as the Space Wolves: their book already has built-in special effects that differentiate them from codex chapters, so additional buff effects other than FoC reorganization is unnecessary.

Tavoittamaton - I just feel like too much is paid you can build a solid list I just don't see a list you can build that takes advantage of Blood Angels without being heavily out numbered.

BloodAngles_Chris wrote:Tavoittamaton - I just feel like too much is paid you can build a solid list I just don't see a list you can build that takes advantage of Blood Angels without being heavily out numbered.

I guess I'm confused. As the IoM's genetically-enhanced elite soldiers, all the SM chapters are heavily outnumbered in virtually every fight they get into. C:SM, SW, DA, BT are no different in this regard, compared to bugs, IG, orks, necrons and their ilk.

Are you saying that you feel heavily outnumbered against other MEQ armies?

Wait what are people complaining about today? I can't hear you all the way from where I don't care.

Blood Angels can be alot cheaper than the standard codex.

All you have to do is take assault marines and remove their jump packs.

Meaning you get much cheaper vehicles.

Land Raiders are 215 points
Razorbacks 20
Rhinos 15
All of which are fast.

I'd say advantage goes to the Blood Angels. They're winning all the tourneys. I don't think they are "screwed".

In every codex there will be things the players don't like. It is called "balancing". We could all write a thread about the stuff we hate in our codex. Get over yourself, and go learn to use what you are given. If you think Blood Angels got "screwed" that bad, play a different army. Simple as that.

BloodAngles_Chris wrote:I hear the statement, most the time at GW that "everyone plays Blood Angels" well yes.you do get a lot of people who bandwagon and jump on the new army. But people who play Blood Angels should get a lot more respect. Look thorough the normal Space Marine boom and all the chapters(Crimson Fists, Salamadors, Raven Guard) all benefit from chapter tactics. Something that will help the army.

Combat Tactics on its own is a tiny little thing very rarely used. Chapter Tactics depends on a Character and replaces that. Blood Angles get the Red Thirst rule instead. What's your point?

Blood Angels have no character that helps the whole army.

Not all armies do, your point? BA's have some of the best combat characters in the game instead.

Now on the Space Wolves.case their whole boom allows them to be different to have everything be Space Wolves and have many characters that help out.

What exactly are you saying here?

Blood Angels can not be themselves, they can not fill a list full of Furioso's and Death Company. With out being out numbered.

So because you can't play an army of furioso's and Death Company without being outnumbered, Blood Angels can't be themselves?

Do you realize that never in the history of the game until may 2010 was it even possible to build an army like that? Do you realize these units are very powerful and so of course they are expensive, and thus if you take nothing *but* them you will be outnumbered. It's called *balance*.

Not to mention the fact that these units make up the tiniest minority of the Blood Angels actual forces.

The best they can is be normally marines painted red. And mabye take advantage of the one or two rules they get.

Oh damn, a marine army has to play for the most part like a Marine army! zomg NOOO!!!

Sorry, but "red marines" are 99% of the Blood Angels actual troops. Their chapter isn't filled with Death Company and Furioso's everywhere.

But pay a lot more points for it(like fast rhinos being 50 points.)

Yes you pay more points for things like this because they are clearly superior in capability to non-BA rhino's. And you can get them at a *discount* with your Assault Marine troops.

This is just my observation does any other Blood Angels player feel the same?

I'd wager very few.

Cry more.
To take any sort of chapter tactics you need to shell out for a special character.

BA get 2 meltaguns or 2 flamers in a 10 man assault squad.. not even salamanders get the 2 meltaguns in an assault squad (flamers yes.. but without vulkan :( )

Yeah this pretty much the sound of me not caring. Until you've played with a codex more years out of date than fingers on one hand there's pretty much zero sympathy.

Blood Angels are unquestioningly in the top 3 most powerful codexes (at #3 IMHO).

I agree, they should have been made more distinct from Vanilla SM. But, they should NOT be any more powerful than they currently are.

The problem with C:BA is that it basically includes everything worthwhile from C:SM but then tosses in some free extra stuff. It's effectively made C:SM completely worthless, since you can just toss a coat of red paint on your Ultras and suddenly have a more powerful army.

If you want to play BA, fine. That's your decision, and I certainly can't blame a gamer for wanting to eek out every possible opportunity to win. But, you can't go complaining about how your broken codex isn't powerful enough.

Blood Angels are more than good enough.

Codex: SM have only a few things left making them worth taking at all in comparison to BA and SW.

I jumped on the BA bandwagon (I'll admit it) and I don't think the codex is lacking at all. If you really think it's unfair to you, go play Space Wolves-then you couldn't possibly have anything to gripe about. Even so, now you're griping about a codex that is second or third strongest (I personally think it's better than IG). Chalk me up as another BA player who thinks you're wrong about the codex not being good enough.

BloodAngles_Chris wrote:they can not fill a list full of Furioso's and Death Company. With out being out numbered. The best they can is be normally marines painted red.

Both unfluffy and utterly ridiculous statement, furioso's and death company are the elite, of the elite, of the elite in close combat of course they are gonna be expensive points wise and outnumbered, thats the point of being 'elite'. If you can't play an over powered list well, i would say maybe you should look at your own skill level instead of the codex.

Blood Angels are unsuprisingly normal marines painted red with a few quirks.

Yeah...

UNDERpowered isn't what I'd call the BA codex.

BloodAngles_Chris wrote:Tavoittamaton - I just feel like too much is paid you can build a solid list I just don't see a list you can build that takes advantage of Blood Angels without being heavily out numbered.

But you gain the ability to determine exactly where your killing power goes and when, without your opponent being able to do much about it.

BA are actually Eldar and dark eldar combined, except they also get marine statlines, and tons of fancy stuff.

If you're having trouble with BA, it's probably not a problem with the codex...

Screwed is your army getting crammed into a book with some human pincushions and freaks from that ridiculous "Van Helsing" movie (see Codex: Witch Hunters).

Blood Angels got a new book, and it is beast. Take the advice above, learn about all your dreads and librarian dreads and whatnot. You'll be fine.

thebaroness wrote:Screwed is your army getting crammed into a book with some human pincushions and freaks from that ridiculous "Van Helsing" movie (see Codex: Witch Hunters).

IIRC the WH book is older than that movie.

Vaktathi wrote:

thebaroness wrote:Screwed is your army getting crammed into a book with some human pincushions and freaks from that ridiculous "Van Helsing" movie (see Codex: Witch Hunters).

IIRC the WH book is older than that movie.

Yes, it is. I wasn't literally saying that it was a product placement.

Before this thread gets beat down further, i feel i have to add my 2 pennies which are old, crusted, and worn (really you should just call them copper flate plates)

Blood angels are indeed screwed! For because of how powerful this new codex is everyone and their uncles dog are playing this codex like space wolves, where they were once unique and fun, and the die hard sons of sanguinuies were the only players of em....now Everyone who has an unpainted and general army is callin em "Blood angels!"

I mean, who dosnt love a commander like dante? he deepstrikes right where he wants! no scatter! NONE! sure he isnt Eternal! but he has great armour a good invul and he has a curse that drops the stats of one IC in the enemy army to CRUD! he drops you a WS, an I, and even a WOUND! you loose a wound from this guy! then he deepstrikes right behind you best vehicle no matter what you do, puts at least 3 melta weapons to its rear, pops it, and when you assualt him he just hits and runs and assualts you back!

Or we could get into the Sanquinor! who dosnt love a being with 5-7 attacks, who makes one seargent rule, and basically points at an enemy HQ and kills it, and rarly does he fail! Sure he is expensive! but what special character isnt now a days? and the sanquinor has a good chance to kill em easy!

Sang priests? okay these guys actually do kinda suck. yeah yeah FNP and Furious charge on a 3+ save model is scary, but honostly they are sooooo easy to kill its silly. and they are an elite slot, soooo you at least know the BA player is paying for his FNP and FC more then just a little

Now lets get to best way the BA's are screwed right? Vehicles! MAAAn their vehicles BLOW! they can move a Vindicator 12 inchs and fire! makeing that STR10 AP2 Large blast go alot farther! Their Rhinos can ONLY move 18inchs! c'mon guys! thats not like your getting a whole lot of marines across the table faster when your rhinos move 18inch then pop smoke! or the fact they can field 6 predators! Yeah 3 heavy ones and 3 fast attack! and the fast attack can have an inferno cannon and outflank! or twin linked assualt cannons which as we all know, are terrible! And of course we got the stormraven gunship! 200 points? Psh! it should be 130 for the fact it can bring about 5 weapons, is a fast skimmer, makes melta not get 2d6 when in "melta" range aaaaaand it can carry a Dreadnaught and a Sqaud! not like thats fair enough! they can drop from it when it moves flat out too!


And Decent of angels? only scattering d6 is just to rough for the Blood angels. they need to not scatter at all to not suck!



But seriously, if you dont get the whole sarcasm and the fact that another space marine army is now more powerful and almost as fast as all xeno's but better armour/weapons then im sorry man, please dont complain about the army, its now way overplayed and i feel really bad for friends i know who been playing the sons of sanguinius since pdf days.

the codex is probably 3rd in the top 3 spots and is overplayed now. and if played right it can be alot of fun and hard to beat.








.....id still rather fight BA's then the sons of russ though!

Nightrave wrote:


.....id still rather fight BA's then the sons of russ though!

Preach!

BA does have alot of heroes that help buff the entire army, even some non-hero units like the Apothecary. Dante gives one squad he has essentially a free Deathmask (meaning whatever Sang Guard squad he's with wont need to buy one, as there's virtually no reason why Dante should ever leave that squad). Sanguinator debuffs an enemy hero and buffs one of your own. Corbulo and his Priests give you a lot of FnP bubbles a,d you get chaplains out the wazoo. If anything BAs have MORE buffs than other armies.

And get used to being outnumbered, especially when you're running vehicles against enemy infantry. They're not gonna let you field squads of Dreads just because the other guy has more bodies than you. If you dont want to run all elite armies, Blood Angels can Outnumber other marine armies by spamming Assault Squads in Rhinos (by far the cheapest option available in any codex, even cheaper than the Space Wolves by 10 points). Blood Angels are also a codex chapter, so they're not exactly "not" being themselves by taking red marines. Hell, back in the older editions the only thing set them apart was their Baal pred, Furioso and DC, all of which can be cheaply bought and still outnumber anything short of Guard, Orks or Nids (unless you max out all of those options, but then why are you complaining?).

dumb thread

OP, your first post is incomprehensible. Work on your grammar because right now it's a nigh-impenetrable block of poor English.

Oh.. and here's a small note on how "expensive" BA are..
My favorite vanilla devastator squad with 4 plasmacannons and stormbolter on sergeant costs 200pts
Blood Angels counterpart costs 208pts... with fast razorback included.
That's very expensive, right?

And before someone says that my dev-squad sucks.. I just love that squad. It's been with me since the start and that's why I'll field it as much as possible.

Blood Angels are screwed because their depstriking landraiders weren't classified as fast skimmers and given psykic powers too. So lame.

They are also screwed that they have assault marines as troops and don't get the joy of mandatory troop choices of either rigidly restricted tactical squads or weak scouts. Those rigid restrictions are what makes Ultramarines so good. Who would want all their scoring units being that mobile anyway?

Even moreso, they are screwed because Dante wasn't able to make all the vehicles deepstrike right on target, unlike those cool space marine captains who let you um... score with sternguard or take more bikes, or infiltrate a squad or other such game crushing advantages the regular marines get. The only thing they are not screwed with is that they weren't as bad and underpowered as the SW codex.

Yeah you guys have it pretty rough. Don't worry, you can always use Captain-Counts-As so you can get all those superior SM codex rules.

I'd like to thank everyone for being sarcastic as hell. Yes ,I have not been playing 40k for a long time. And to all you veterans of the game that makes me wrong for not being able to see or build an army like you do.

It's not like you need to be an expert to make something deadly out of the BA codex. Sure, it's not as easy to throw something together as Gaurd or Space Wolves, but god damn, it's still pretty damn elementary.

Grab some melta, make it go fast, throw on a bit of FNP, call it a day and go to town.