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Well sat down with the new book - tried to come up with something competitive.

Black Orc Warboss, Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm, Shield, Talisman of Preservation - 215 pts
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll - 110
Black Orc Big Boss, BSB, Armor Silvered Steel - 160
Night Goblin Big Boss, GW, Light Armor - 36
Orc Big Boss, Shield - 57
24 Boyz, Shields, Banner, Musician - 188
24 Boyz, Shields, Banner, Musician - 188
50 Night Goblins, Nets, Full Command - 215
50 Night Goblins, Nets, Full Command - 215
3 Wolf Chariots - 150
3 Wolf Chariots - 150
1 Boar Chariot - 85
1 Boar Chariot - 85
18 Black Orcs, Shields, Banner, Musician, Standard of Discipline - 269
Doom Diver - 80
Doom Diver - 80
Rock Lobba - 85
Mangler Squig - 65
Mangler Squig - 65

Gotta love that +1 Str for any weapon!

Magic no longer a game winner for orcses? Heard WAAAGH was dropped, and seeing the reposted spells there looked to be a lack of auto-wins in either lore. Still some impressive stuff IMO, augments and hexes-wise.

Love me some mangler squig, what a crazy beasty! And so cheap, hope it's fairly killable ...

Sadly I just have questions for you:
+ Are the KB goblin skulker things a common goblin upgrade?
+ How are wolf chariots working now? I heard 'squadron' but no details on what that means. Are they simply bought in sets, or are light cav, or have to stay within X" (ala 40k), or ...?
+ Annnnd no arachnarok?

- Salvage

Mattbranb wrote:Well sat down with the new book - tried to come up with something competitive.

What is the new book already out in America?

Its out in the black box at stores already.

1. Yes
2. Work in units of 1-3 per special choice (like TK chariots)
3. That thing is just too expensive for what you get. Plus you have to take it as a mount for a goblin shaman to get the stubborn totem - can get a full unit of black orcs with command and a banner cheaper.

Mattbranb wrote:Its out in the black box at stores already.

1. Yes
2. Work in units of 1-3 per special choice (like TK chariots)
3. That thing is just too expensive for what you get. Plus you have to take it as a mount for a goblin shaman to get the stubborn totem - can get a full unit of black orcs with command and a banner cheaper.

oh I thought that you had a copy not that you were useing the store copy. In my FLGS you have to pick a page number and they let you read that page.

Sad not to see any greenskin magic item, all those characters with generic items.....

I guess that confirms my idea that they're all too expensive for what you get.

Yeah there are 8 items in the book, 3 are banners and the cheapest is like 50 points. All of the weapons and armor are 100-75 points. Fluffy maybe, but not really that effective.

wait...so did O&G get better at all? this is really discouraging for my army im building -_-

Moartiki wrote:wait...so did O&G get better at all? this is really discouraging for my army im building -_-

Animosity-wise, yes.

Otherwise? Predominantly neutral changes, that don't really tip anything. Only real exception is magic defense was nastily dropped, from "Can get +4 DD and -1 to enemy PD" to "You can't do anything for extra DD outside channeling and common magic items".

^^ I still maintain that changes hit all of the OnG strong points without really addressing their weaknesses (except animosity).

Magic, we'll miss the triksy trinket, shaga's screamin' sword, best basha, amulet of protectyness, etc. All good, relatively cheap items that gave an orky (and gobliny) flavour to the army. Plus we'll miss dearly mork totem and the staff.

Now all the big bosses will be equipped with standard items, which certainly doesn't.

I don't really think there was any need to raise the point cost of base boyz or, for the same measure, commands and nets. I think that's what's going to hurt us the most.

Same for the lobba, now it's 10 points more than a mortar, only 5 less than a trebuchet. I can't wait for other army books to address this.

Spell-wise, some new spells look good (so does the new mushroom rule for night gobbos) but overall the better spells have gone.

Cavalry and trolls are cheaper, but cavalry will still struggle with a low I, and you need to build your strategy around trolls to make them work (i.e. keep a BSB nearby).

I need to look at the new rules for wolf chariot units, that might be the one surprise this rulebook has for us.

New big'uns look good, BO's still overcosted. Boars and wolves look increasingly more attractive.

I might have another look to squig hoppers now that they can be joined by a giant squig (which will reroll Mv). Likewise the new mangler squig looks a sure killer.

So far it looks that the all-infantry + warmachines + magic will lose adepts and more people will go for a smaller core of infantry and more fast units (boars, wolves, chariots, hoppers, etc.) to get to CC faster, as the enemy will pound you with warmachines, shooting and magic quite quickly.

To the OP: how does the new snotling ranged weapon work?

Thinking about changing a few things up – here's what I'm thinking:

Black Orc Warboss, Sword of Striking, Glittering Scales, Iron Curse Icon, Shield, Talisman of Preservation – 240 pts
Orc Great Shaman, Lvl 4, Talisman of Endurance – 230
Black Orc Big Boss, BSB, Shield, Dragonhelm, Potion of Speed – 127
24 Boyz, Shields, Banner, Musician – 188
24 Boyz, Shields, Banner, Musician – 188
45 Night Goblins, Nets – 180
45 Night Goblins, Nets – 180
2 Wolf Chariots – 100
2 Wolf Chariots – 100
1 Boar Chariot – 85
1 Boar Chariot – 85
20 Black Orcs, Shields, Banner, Musician, Standard of Discipline – 295
6 Trolls – 210
Doom Diver – 80
Doom Diver – 80
Mangler Squig – 65
Mangler Squig – 65
Total: 2498
Its a little more of a move towards a more elite O&G army, but has enough ranked units and toys to be interesting. I'm really interested to see how the troll unit meshes with everything – if I can keep them within range of my general, looking at LD10 possibly with reroll depending on where the BSB is. Lvl 4 Orc Great Shaman may be switched out with a Night Goblin Great Shaman – really depends on which Lore I like. Dropped the command on the Night Goblins because I really don't see them winning many fights – there just for ranks and to tie up enemy units for flank charges from the big guys.

Im yet to even get a glimpse of the new book :(
On the off chance though, could someone kindly drop me a PM please about the mangler squigs?

I have a bad habbit of designing entire armies around squigs, so something new would be pretty nice. (herds, hoppers, squig-fanatics, squig drawn chariots etc)
I could actually get a new unit that has its own rules for once

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Im yet to even get a glimpse of the new book :(
On the off chance though, could someone kindly drop me a PM please about the mangler squigs?

From what I've read they're kind of fanatics, except that they don't deploy in units.

They move like hoppers until they hit the first (hopefully enemy) unit, from then onwards, they move at random like fanatics.

IIRC they're T4 and W3, and -1 to hit so they can withstand a little shooting.

Now the good part: they deal 2D6 S6 hits, any unit can kill them by finishing movement on top of them (and getting 3D6 S6 hits in the process).

For their point cost, I think they're a steal.

Yeah squig manglers are at 50-80 points a peice for the ablities listed above. I can't remember how many pics per special choice though. Hell they could be rare really can't remember from the black box perusual I had.

I'm pretty sure they're special, so a limit of two / army. However, I also recall them being less than 100pts.

Personally, I wouldn't take them for damage if only because they're pretty frail when it comes to shooting. First magical thing that looks at them is probably going to turn them into a smear. However, what I would take them for is fire-magnet: Most people will focus their shots on the large squigs barreling towards them, especially when they hear they'll cause 2D6 S6 hits on one of their units (or, possibly, more).

Mangler Squigs are Rare and 65 points a model.

And yes, I do have the book. The joy of the stockist.

jouso wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Im yet to even get a glimpse of the new book :(
On the off chance though, could someone kindly drop me a PM please about the mangler squigs?

From what I've read they're kind of fanatics, except that they don't deploy in units.

They move like hoppers until they hit the first (hopefully enemy) unit, from then onwards, they move at random like fanatics.

IIRC they're T4 and W3, and -1 to hit so they can withstand a little shooting.

Now the good part: they deal 2D6 S6 hits, any unit can kill them by finishing movement on top of them (and getting 3D6 S6 hits in the process).

For their point cost, I think they're a steal.

I'm pretty darn sure that it is 4d6 S6 hits if a unit ends it's move on top of the Mangler. The first 2d6 occurs as soon as the unit touches the Mangler; the other 2d6 for ending on top of them.

It's just like the regular Fanatics; 1d6 hits normally, and twice that many for ending on top of them.

No, Manglers just cause a single D6 in addition if you end overtop 'em.

Hmmm...pretty sure it's an extra 2. Who's got a quote?

Here's what I'll say about the list: I'd like to see a Ward on that BSB (Death magic...). Night Goblins...with...no fanatics? Nets are cool, but...I dunno.You could nab three skulkers for some common goblins and save yourself 30pts from the two units. I'd also be a little wary about those Manglers + chariots.

Here's what I'll say about the army: neutral changes, yeah. But a shift in focus. Everything seems to be about hurting the other guy more than he hurts you. And not only is that the greenskin way, it's the way of 8th edition, where shields are one of the worst pieces of equipment to be hand in close combat.

The goblin lore attribute is terrifying, at least in concept. Get a spell off, steal a dispel die and turn it into a power die. Coupled with Night Goblin mushrooms and...pretty neat, in my opinion.

The Foot is just a monster of a spell, now. Especially since it's S7 as long as more of your units are in CC than fleeing.

Other stuff seems like a lot of fun, and decently competitive. Up to four Pump Wagons that can roll 4d6 movement and do 2d6 S5 impact hits for a measly 70pts each? Maybe 75. Either way, I like it.

Fun stuff, I say. Final point: savage orcs with battering-ram spears. Awesome.

It is 3d6 total for the mangler Squig when it dies. There is another worry I have, but I think consulting the book will clarify it.

A ward save won't save you vs most death magic.

Losing the Waagh ability and spell will be terrible, but unstoppable orc magic is scarier. IE: two NG shamans, each throws one die plus their freebie at each of their four spells. Stop the spells with your dice, or watch your dice get turned into power, which the Orc Shaman uses to do whatever he wants.

Oh goody. :laughs: Looks like the orcs tortured some Dark Elf Sorceresses and learned.

I'm actually debating about the BOrc unit now - buddy brought up about running a huge squig herd in a horde formation, with gobbos filling the front rank, followed by 2-3 ranks of squigs, then gobbos. Somewhere around a 30 Squig, 20 handler ratio would cost the same as the BOrcs, have more ranks, have a crap load of attacks back (10 wide squigs = 20 WS4, Str 5 attacks), plus gobbos to soak up wounds.

Only drawback - lose the gobbos and the unit blows up. Hate to lose that many points.

The advantage is, with 30 Squigs, keep just 2/3 when it explodes and you'll get +4 to the roll, so you'll cause 5-10 hits instead of 1-6.

Though yes, that is an issue. Especially since 20 WS2 T3 no-save models can be killed in only 2-3 player turns.

I think you should try to find the points to put at least 1 fanatic in each NG unit. Even 1 fanatic can be quite annoying for cav / monsters. While it won't always do lots of wounds, it forces the enemy to be cautious. Moreover, a lot of enemies will throw away a fast cav / flying unit to trigger your fanatics which is a good trade for 25 points.

Also, put a scroll on your Lvl 4. There is literally no reason to ever not take a scroll, unless you are playing super low points value.

Yeah if something has to go, it'll probably be a mangler squig or a doom diver. With so little shooting and all infantry advancing, I really don't see the doom divers doing a whole lot past turn 2 or 3. Manglers I'll have to see how they do.