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I was a bit annoyed on first reading the warhammer 8th edition rules - specifically magic and scenery. I'm going pure Khorne to ignore magic at the moment but scenery/terrain. On first reading I understood it that on entering a forest you roll to see what type of 'mysterious forest' it is. Now I'm thinking that it's only if its a mysterious forest, IE not all forests are mysterious.

Is this the case?

Does it also mean that the wood elf 6" forest is just a forest not a 'mysterious' forest?

From what I can tell by a strict reading of the BRB:

If you are using the random terrain table (pg 142? I think), the only "forest" option is Mysterious Forest.

The forest entry on 119 suggests that all forests are mysterious terrain.

That means that every forest on the map is tested when it is first entered, meaning that there's only a 1 in 6 chance of a forest being made of .. you know... trees.

There may be some special rules in individual scenarios, but I would say that you can never trust a tree.

In fairness, in fantasy settings there are no ordinary set pieces. All forests are mysterious. All caves are cursed and all mountains are enchanted.

That sucks and adds a layer of compexity. Damnit.

Durkon was right!

Not everyone uses the special terrain rules. If you are using them, all forests would be mysterious.

I.e., at the last 'Ard Boyz it was spelled out in the rules: "All hills are normal hills, all forests are mysterious" or very similar wording.

I personally really like mysterious forests, they're one of the easier magical terrain to deal with and not too over the top, imho. It makes it fun! But you certainly don't have to use them- I know Boss_Salvage hates magical terrain.

Also, the wood elf forest question is a whole 'nother can of worms not worth getting into here, since it looks like that's not your army (you mentioned Khorne). My opinion is that it is mysterious if you are using those rules, but people are 50/50 on this. It does suck to have your "own" forest turn against you if it happens to roll up as a blood forest, but imho, them's the breaks! Not that WE need a harder time than they already have...

I have Lizardmen (in ireland sadly) and woodelves (in UK with me) and am starting khorne. I've not played any 8th edition.

I am not a fan of the "mysterious forest" rule, because I think it discourages people from converting some cool forest pieces. Why make a forest look haunted, or mutated, if you might roll that it is instead filled with poisonous creatures, or normal?

On the other hand, I can understand why they did this.

If you know what the Forest is before you enter it, you can make a cost/benefit analysis for your army and your opponent, and only enter woods that seem appropriately safe. This means that no one would ever get surprised by a particularly worrisome type of wood. Also, if your army would benefit from a particular type of forest (say, frenzied plague monks with 2 hand weapons and a venomous thicket), then you are likely to convert and use only that type if given the chance. I think GW went with the random roll to encourage people to include and use different forest rules, but I don't like the way that it was accomplished.

I'm also not clear why it seems fine that warriors can always identify other pieces of terrain ("That's an Acropolis of Heroes!") but they can't suss out whether a Forest is filled with ghosts, or a river is made of boiling blood, until they get inside. Why is one type so obvious and another so hard to determine?

The only real issue I have with it is the frequency. I'm fine with ALL woods being mysterious. I've been in some creepy and mysterious woods myself, and I can only imagine what the Black Forest was like when getting eaten by a bear was not a statistical anomaly, but instead a calculated risk.

But to say that 1/6 of EVERY forest is somehow abnormal is just ... weird. I'd much rather have it be a D6 check. If you get 4+, roll on the "Messed Up Crazy Woods Type Table." I think a 50/50 chance still keeps the fantasy up front and visible without making it so common that it's expected.

The random terrain and you don't know what it is until you go into it is one of the worst rules in 8th edition in my opinion. I typically play without it.

skyth wrote:The random terrain and you don't know what it is until you go into it is one of the worst rules in 8th edition in my opinion. I typically play without it.

Amen. Just say no to Candyland terrain. If you want to play survival horror, you have a lot of fine games that do it far better than WHFB

- Salvage

I think the mystical forests show up too often, but playing without them is rather bland. Unless you have GIGANTIC terrain pieces, most units can march through in a single turn, completely ignoring the woods.

Given the option for 7th edition style or 8th, I'll take my beatings from the trees in exchange for not being taken out of the entire last half of the game for over-running into the woods.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Unless you have GIGANTIC terrain pieces, most units can march through in a single turn, completely ignoring the woods.

This is my stance- that they actually have a much larger psychological impact than actual impact on the game. If you don't like the effect, you can usually try to stay out of the woods... and I kind of like the randomness. Just like I really like the random charge distances, etc that 8th introduced. Makes you have to plan for / factor in the unknown a bit more...

At my FLGS we always treat the Wood Elf forest as a normal forest, and if you roll something dont worry too much. You have tons of special rules to manipulate the forest to your advantage.

streamdragon wrote:Durkon was right!

YES. brilliance. It fits so well