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I cant beat a guys imperial guard with my vulkan spce marines, i try everything, but it just dosent work out in my favor.
I usaully take 2 landraiders and 10 assault terminators,then maby a few dreads and thunder fire.

he has a swarm of infantry he blocks his tanks with and then has 3 leman russ and a basalisk, and mortars up the ying yang.
I have a game against him today. HOW DO I BEAT HIM!!!!

Drop the land raiders and drop pod a crap ton of melta on him in the form of tact squads, stern, make sure all your assault termies are TH/SS and drop pod your dreads too.

Assault terminates, though epic, can't kill guard fast enough. You want flamers for the blobs and you want fast meltas for the russ. LandSpeeders would be nice for both.

oh yeah...and that, lol

hmm I see your point about the landraiders, and lascannons never hit with me, cause im cursed. I do have 4 speeders with multi-meltas, and 10 sternguard with meltas. I could teleport the termies behind the sternguard and have the tanks focus on the more pressing problem, then next turn i salvage them.. problem is I dont have any droppods:(

ouch, what do you have transport wise? actually can we see a current list that you were running against him, and then at the end put in what all you have that you arent using, we'll be able to help you more then

Well ill go down my whole army and you pick, i really dont have any transports cept the landraiders.
vulkan
chapter master
librarian
chaplin
lysander
commander
17 assault termies
20 normal termies
9 full tactical squads
2 assault sqauds
14 scout snipers
telion
2 multimelta bikes
4 multimelta landspeeders
10 melta sternguard
10 flamer/plasma sternguard
4 dreadnoughts
venerable dread
ironclad dread
thunderfire cannon
5 devastator squads
vindicator
3 preds
2 whirlwinds
3 land raiders
land raider achilles
wheeew.... think thats it.

The others have it covered for this game. I'd say your next purchase has to be drop pods and then rhinos. Vulkan is a short to medium range army and you need more than Raiders to get you there.

A footslogging Marine list? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that kinda rare? (No offense).

Two quibbles:
1.) Vulcan is the head of the Salamanders chapter. So, you have "Salamanders," or "Space Marines from the Salamanders Chapter." You do not have "Vulkans." Mr. Spock is not in 40k.
2.) Please try to use proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar. It makes it a lot easier for you to get your point across, and enables us to take you seriously.

That said, I think you're on the right track with the Thunderfire. That weapon can throw out an obscene amount of templates, some of which can ignore cover. I'm somewhat frightened of it as a Guardsman, and frankly, I'd probably try to counterbattery (I'll explain later) it fairly quickly. Who do you go after with it?

Now, I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the Space Marines list (Sorry, you all are "Power Armored Freaks" to me.), but how many of your infantry squads can deep strike? Any Guardsman worth his salt has his 'Lisk behind cover. If it really blows holes in your line, can you deep strike a unit close by and zot it with something?

Another thing is that your Land Raiders are a wee bit overrated. Sure, they can carry loads of guys, and have some BS multitargeting special rule, but....between Bring It Down on Lascannon squads, suicidal Vets with Meltas, and (my personal favorite) the Vanquisher (oh, and also the Basilisk), well....the Guard can put out a good amount of anti-vehicle firepower. Edit: Anybody else is free to contradict me on this point, though.

Now, what is your concern about mortars? Really, they shouldn't concern you. S4 AP6 isn't exactly likely to cause any casualties, and if there aren't any casualties, then you don't need to take a pinning test. (Right?)

Anyways. The last thing is what I mentioned earlier, counterbattery. Now, the viability of this in 40k is somewhat questionable (as are most tactics), but the premise is that you kill enemy artillery with your own artillery. For example, if there is a Mortar squad hanging out behind cover, hit it with your Whirlwind.

Hopefully something will help. I'll check back in a bit, but....not gonna lie, still rooting for the Guardsman. Not a fan of the Power Armored Freaks of any color.

edit2: Wildstorm covered the point I was trying to get at with my diatribe on Guard AT firepower. If you have only two tanks, guess what will attract all the AT firepower? If you have only two tanks that are ALSO transporting all sorts of nasty....well, what would you do in his shoes?

The best way to beat IG is to have loads of tacticals in rinos with flamers and RL. thunderfires are awesome but usualy get desroyed prity quickly so put in in cover(remember "bolster defensis")
Landspeeders with MM are amasing at anti armer if you deep strike them behind tanks and hit there rear armer then not much survives. Do any of your landspeeders have tyfoon ML? How ever deepstriking them is usualy suicidal as they dont survive.

You know what, i dont need any more advice. I have vowed to never play a game with him again. I just played him 2 hours ago. I have been trying to beat his army for half a year and have never even come close. I used 2 attack bikes 4 landspeeders 2, 5 man tactical squads, vulkan, lysander, 5 man lc assault terminators and 10 man th/ss terminators. I was DESTROYING him, as I was having the most fun in my life rrecking his presious little tanks and slaughtering his infantry he quit on turn 2 I hate his guts with a passion. He complains aout the slightest thing in every game he plays, and he wins 75% of time. No im destroying his army and he cant take it so he quits. I had the urge to snap his neck.

Midnightdeathblade wrote:You know what, i dont need any more advice. I have vowed to never play a game with him again. I just played him 2 hours ago. I have been trying to beat his army for half a year and have never even come close. I used 2 attack bikes 4 landspeeders 2, 5 man tactical squads, vulkan, lysander, 5 man lc assault terminators and 10 man th/ss terminators. I was DESTROYING him, as I was having the most fun in my life rrecking his presious little tanks and slaughtering his infantry he quit on turn 2 I hate his guts with a passion. He complains aout the slightest thing in every game he plays, and he wins 75% of time. No im destroying his army and he cant take it so he quits. I had the urge to snap his neck.

What a bastard.

Do listen to this advice though. He's definitely not the only mech IG player out there.

Why do you have regular Land Raiders and not Redeemers? As far as I've seen Redeemers are superior in every way. When are you ever going to need twin-linked lascannons when you should be moving full speed the first could turns and firing either a multi-melta or a STR 6 flamer.

i have had alot of success lately with my list of salamanders. basicly i drop pod alot of melta first turn and pop off transports and tanks if possible.

turn one:

drop pod with ironclad dread (hvy flamer and melta)
drop pod two: dreadnaught with multimelta (hvy flamer)
drop pod three: tactical squad: multimelta/meltagun/combi melta
drop pod four: meltagun/combimelta

successive turns:

drop pod five: sternguard squad with 4 combimeltas
drop pod six: tacitcal squd three: meltagun/ combimelta
drop pod seven: cpt with command squd (two melta gun)
vanguard vet squad (ten stron) with two thunder hammers/three power weapons/ sgt with lightning claw/ one plasma pistol

this is out of my 2500 point list. there is other stuff, though, not much. i play ig too, alot of tanks, that why i went drop pod crazy with salamanders, no tanks. you have to blow stuff up turn one or you will be hurting quickly. if he throws alot of pie plates around, just start with nothing on the board if he has the first turn, negate his turn.

your advantage is twin linked melta and flamers. meltas to blow up tanks, flamers to get his troops.

Why not try out The Casteus Assault Ram, insteed of using Land Raiders, with your terminators?

Midnightdeathblade wrote:You know what, i dont need any more advice. I have vowed to never play a game with him again. I just played him 2 hours ago. I have been trying to beat his army for half a year and have never even come close. I used 2 attack bikes 4 landspeeders 2, 5 man tactical squads, vulkan, lysander, 5 man lc assault terminators and 10 man th/ss terminators. I was DESTROYING him, as I was having the most fun in my life rrecking his presious little tanks and slaughtering his infantry he quit on turn 2 I hate his guts with a passion. He complains aout the slightest thing in every game he plays, and he wins 75% of time. No im destroying his army and he cant take it so he quits. I had the urge to snap his neck.

Again, painfully bad spelling and grammar is making it hard to understand what you're saying, but if I'm reading this right, in the past you haven't been able to do much damage to him, but when you switched army list and tactics, you were able to start whomping on him.

Good! You have learned! Granted, I think its a wee bit of crap that any army is capable of dealing craploads of damage on turn 2. Unless you were doing it with the attack bikes and 'speeders. They trade survivability for speed.

Nevertheless, perhaps you can go over what changes you made, why you changed them, and how you employed them. Also, please remember that proper spelling, grammar and punctuation will enable us to learn, and you to learn from our comments, whereas your usual nigh-illiterate posting just kinda wastes our time.

Last, asshat players are everywhere. They'll gloat, strut, and brag while they're winning, and they'll turn into whining, puling children when they aren't. Some of them will also pull out jaw-droppingly crazy rules interpretations, "forget" things, or outright cheat to win. The trick is to not play them, and find fun opponents to play against. Though, I have to ask, were you gloating, bragging, rubbing it in his face when you were stomping on him? I'm not saying that he didn't deserve a good face-rub, I'm saying that you're better than that.

Sorry about spelling/grammer, I was pretty pissed so I didn't bother with spelling. No I was more surprised that i was destroying him, and since he quit on turn two, I didn't have time to think about rubbing it in. I did most the damage with the landspeeders, I deepstriked and multi-meltaed his rear armour. This destroyed all his tanks except a chimera and a basilisk. I also deepstriked Lysander and 10 th/ss terminators infront of his infantry swarm, every model would have survived the following shooting phase and would have wiped them in assault, I would then help out the terminators with Vulkan and his combat squad. Too bad I didn't get too. Yeah that guys a jackass, he'll complain about everylitle thing even if he's winning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The advice you guys have given me is sweet, so thanks for that. I guess my army isn't built like vulkan, I call it Vulkan because they're painted lie salamanders.

Ah, thank you oodles. i have a thing about spelling and grammar on the internet, which makes surfing it....problematic. On the various dating sites, no matter *how* hot the girl may be, if her profile "iz writn liek THS" or something similar, I vomit, and then look elsewhere.

Right, having Landspeeders deep-strike behind his tanks and zot them would definitely eliminate them. Seeing as tanks (Leman Russes specifically) are the Guard's strong point, that was a huge chunk of his strength right there. Having Lysander and the Termies (hah, sounds like a band name) deep strike in the face of the infantry also deprives them of the ability to put fire on them over a few turns. Drastically increases survivability, and allows you to deliver their combat power very early in the match.

This type of deep-striking assault is a nightmare scenario for the Guard, especially a Guard force that relies on staying still and putting out as much fire as possible. I'm thinking that this is what your opponent was running?

Now, hypothetically, could a Mechanized or Airmoble (Valkyrie-borne) Guard force have ran away from your DZ (Drop Zones)? I'm getting back in, so my experience with this kind of mass Deep Striking assault is limited, as is my experience with Mechanized Guard.

Nevertheless, congrats on your win. I'm fairly sure he was depending on you to never change tactics, which is extraordinarily narrow-minded. Coming in second-place in a two-person game has a tendency to make Mr. Second Place try to get better, and Mr. First Place cannot sit on his laurels. Your opponent sat on his laurels, and got curb-stomped. So, kudos for improving (drastically!) your performance, and more kudos for kicking an asshat's head up between his shoulders. Good luck finding more, and better, opponents.

Yeah, to bad I could ream him out completly, it was fun to watch him squirm. Oh yeah, he runs 3 leman russ, a basilisk, a bunch of guard, and some storm troopers. No he can't manuover out of mass deepstrike. And an earlier comment suggested casteus assult ram, those things can transport 10 terminators into close combat, and no-scatter 10 more right next to it. Great guard killer!

Midnightdeathblade wrote:You know what, i dont need any more advice. I have vowed to never play a game with him again. I just played him 2 hours ago. I have been trying to beat his army for half a year and have never even come close. I used 2 attack bikes 4 landspeeders 2, 5 man tactical squads, vulkan, lysander, 5 man lc assault terminators and 10 man th/ss terminators. I was DESTROYING him, as I was having the most fun in my life rrecking his presious little tanks and slaughtering his infantry he quit on turn 2 I hate his guts with a passion. He complains aout the slightest thing in every game he plays, and he wins 75% of time. No im destroying his army and he cant take it so he quits. I had the urge to snap his neck.

Now don't get me wrong, this guy deserved a right good beat down. However, it looks to me like you took a pretty tough list.

Vulkan
Lysander
10 TH/SS terminators
5 LC Terminators
5 tactical marines
5 tactical marines
2 attack bikes
2 landspeeders
2 landspeeders
(I broke it up by groups, to make sure I read it right)

And you drop podded this all in?
I don't know about anyone else in here, but that seems like overkill to me. You took two of the single most powerful characters in the entire vanilla book. You took 15 terminators (10 is usually a lot). You ran a total of 4 land speeders, presumably all with TL MM. And you ran the smallest amount of troops possible, probably all sitting in cover, or waiting to pod in. That is a serious amount of firepower, and I'm not surprised you whooped him so soundly. However, I'm also not surprised he walked away. I would almost call this tailoring.

I agree with what you did, but I don't agree with the way you went about it. You took an extremely mean list, and the manner you played it with is nigh unbeatable.

If you actually both want to improve at the game (i.e. you want to play this guy again at some point in the future) you should discuss each others lists after as well as things you both could have done differently.

Of course this guy shouldn't have just quit turn 2, but if you want to get decent games in you can make the experience a lot more pleasant by just discussing stuff in a non-condescending manner.

There's a local IG vet in our area too and I have never beaten him with my nids. That said I'm always trying new tactics and coming up with new lists as well as getting feedback from him on what I could have done differently. I personally like the challenge.

Just a question. I read in the codex that all units lose the Combat Tactics special rule and get the twin-linked MMs, meltaguns, heavy flamers and flamers and master crafted thunder hammers Chapter Tactics.

Does this mean that those units that don't have Combat Tactics, like all vehicles, don't the twin-linked goodness for their meltas and flamers, or was this FAQed or something?

L_Dawg wrote:Just a question. I read in the codex that all units lose the Combat Tactics special rule and get the twin-linked MMs, meltaguns, heavy flamers and flamers and master crafted thunder hammers Chapter Tactics.

Does this mean that those units that don't have Combat Tactics, like all vehicles, don't the twin-linked goodness for their meltas and flamers, or was this FAQed or something?

Normally for the rules models swaps combat tactics for X rule. Not vulkan you loose combat tactics but the entire army gets TL-flamers,meltas ect. Its the reason that so many builds focus on him.

That' good. Now I know my list idea will work.

Thanks.