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New the game. First match with Eldar tomorrow need sum insight

While I dont play Eldar mainly, I have the codex, and I play Tyranids. EMLs would be superior in this case, as the frag version can decmiate anything from Gaunt to Warriros, while the krak one can go toe-to-toe with any MC you might face.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:While I dont play Eldar mainly, I have the codex, and I play Tyranids. EMLs would be superior in this case, as the frag version can decmiate anything from Gaunt to Warriros, while the krak one can go toe-to-toe with any MC you might face.

Frag (plasma) decimating warriors? ok...
As far as i'm concerned from an Eldar perspective its scatter lasers and shurcan cannons all the way, preferably on a mobile fire base than can keep out of range of nasty tyranid combats. Anything that your not wounding on a 2+... doom it, anything you are wounding on a 2+... doom it too! Just in case.

Scatter lasers without a doubt. Take as many as possible. Three warwalkers with two each is a devastating firebase.

dayve110 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:While I dont play Eldar mainly, I have the codex, and I play Tyranids. EMLs would be superior in this case, as the frag version can decmiate anything from Gaunt to Warriros, while the krak one can go toe-to-toe with any MC you might face.

Frag (plasma) decimating warriors? ok...
As far as i'm concerned from an Eldar perspective its scatter lasers and shurcan cannons all the way, preferably on a mobile fire base than can keep out of range of nasty tyranid combats. Anything that your not wounding on a 2+... doom it, anything you are wounding on a 2+... doom it too! Just in case.

S4 AP4 means that you land one in the middle of a warrior squad it would likely cause many wounds. However the Krak version would probably be better for IDing them. I would only choose the Scatter Laser if you know you're going to face a hellish amount of gaunts, and even then a DA squad can do what the warwalker with Scatter does without taking up a precious HS slot.

Being a nid player, i would laugh at EML's being used against me instead of scatter lasers.

Take the mass shots any time.




Mecha - Thats nice, but what happens when the blaster scatters?
Like it does alot of the time?


Mass shots and doom bring anything down, so no need to waste time and points on the EML's.
Only time to even think of them is against heavy armour, in which they are junk compared to prism's, dragons and lances.



Also, if you get on well with them, take a look at forgeworld afterwards
New wasps are pretty much the same, but faster and a troop choice, so you can take more of them





Edit: Side note that got me thinking.
Against The slower MC's, dragons are pretty nasty.
Throw them in a wave to get when they are going and keep firing once your there.

Ive ignored dragons in the past and been knocked out of a tournie as a result lol.

Didnt know Scatters had S6. I still fear EMLs more than a Scatter laser. With only 4 shots on a Scatter, you'd probably land 2 hits on average per Laser, and anything beyond a gaunt would get an armor save. Doom only affects rerolls to wound. Scatters would wound on a 2+ anyways, meaning Doom is wasted (whereas a EML would benefit more from Doom). The Krak Missile on a EML can bring down Warriors and crack most MC's Armor (as alot of big Nids lack that precious 2+ armor save, and almost nothing bar the Zoan and Swarmlord in the army has an invul save).

Plus, the EML is only 5 points more than a Scatter.

I play Eldar and face tyranids regularly - and I prefer EML, as stated the blast is about as good against small bugs. And krak missiles are a safer bet against big bugs and warriors. Definitely a prime candidate for guide.

Scatter lasers should out-perform EML in most situations...
180 points gets you 24 S6 shots from war walkers, guided, thats alot of hits, enough to worry most units.
If you properly invest in S6 spam you can easily reach 70+ in an 1850 list while still having space to fit in AT units like dragons or take BL on serpents.
With the new wasps you can even reach into the mid 100's comfortably.

I used to use EML alot... and took them on almost everything, so its not like i don't know how well they can do. I find they fit best on a falcon to add to the S8 shots or in a guardian defender squad where the blast helps mitigate their BS3. But if you are taking them its best when used against something that you can pin.

Since switching to Scatter Lasers i find them much more satisfying... the amount of shots you can pump out is just insane. If you concentrate on taking them on walkers/vypers and serpents then your S6 shots are either grouped together for easy guiding or twin linked. Throwing on the underslung shurican cannon on the serpents can also add to your S6 spamming ways...

If your planning for hordes that need to move towards you consider the night spinner and try to clip at least two units with every shot.

I still think EMLs would be better. 3 Warwalkers with 2 EMLs with Guide can easily kill a Trygon in a single volley of Krak Missile. That's 8 shots, with rerolls 6 will hit. Going by statistic, at least 5 will wound. Due to the Trygon's size, he would get no cover save, and th EML ignroes his Armor save. This will either severely wound him, or (due to 2+s being really easy to roll) feasably kill him outright. This is the same for almost all of the MCs as well as any warrior squads (that's 5 dead warriors right there, which means that the Warwalker would have made back it's points in a single volley of shots, and then some). The Plasma Missiles wont do as well as the Scatterlasers vs small units, but since Nids largely rely on their big monsters to do the heavy lifting, it more then compensates.

As a Demons and Tyranids player there is nothing I fear more from Eldar than seeing 9 double scatter laser war walkers across the table from me. They will absolutely wreak havok upon my swarms and chew my MCs to mince meat. They are my number one priority target.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I still think EMLs would be better. 3 Warwalkers with 2 EMLs with Guide can easily kill a Trygon in a single volley of Krak Missile. That's 8 shots, with rerolls 6 will hit. Going by statistic, at least 5 will wound. Due to the Trygon's size, he would get no cover save, and th EML ignroes his Armor save. This will either severely wound him, or (due to 2+s being really easy to roll) feasably kill him outright. This is the same for almost all of the MCs as well as any warrior squads (that's 5 dead warriors right there, which means that the Warwalker would have made back it's points in a single volley of shots, and then some). The Plasma Missiles wont do as well as the Scatterlasers vs small units, but since Nids largely rely on their big monsters to do the heavy lifting, it more then compensates.

Odd... i was pretty sure 3x2 was 6, not 8.
so those 6 shots hit 4.5 times (guided) and wound 4.38 times (doomed).
If your going to throw on another unit to generate guide then why not calculate shadow in the warp into the equation or the fact nids can generate cover?
So thats only what?
2.92 wounds taken with a 5+ cover
2.19 wounds tajen with a 4+ cover

As for the lasers... 3 walkers pump out 24 shots, 18 hit (guided), 13.5 wound (doomed)...
4.5 wounds taken, weather your in cover or not.
4.5 is still higher than the EML's 4.38 when out of cover.

And to top it all off the scatter laser unit is 30 points cheaper.

augustus5 wrote:As a Demons and Tyranids player there is nothing I fear more from Eldar than seeing 9 double scatter laser war walkers across the table from me. They will absolutely wreak havok upon my swarms and chew my MCs to mince meat. They are my number one priority target.

And so you should be!!! Although I'd advise eating the Farseer as a number one priorit target then switching to walkers.

Touche. Also, sorry about the little math booboo. I want to see the effectiveness of the Plasma Missile towards Gaunts though, however I dont know how to calculate that one due to the template being completely dependant on the battle situation.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Touche. Also, sorry about the little math booboo. I want to see the effectiveness of the Plasma Missile towards Gaunts though, however I dont know how to calculate that one due to the template being completely dependant on the battle situation.

Bit harder to work that one out...
For the lasers it's easy enough throwing in guide/doom/4+cover to work out.
24 shots, 18 hits , 17.5 wounds, 8.75 dead gaunts.

For plasma blasts... well your firing 6 so assume 4.5 hit or scatter small enough to "hit" with each blast getting 3 or 4, so call it 3.5. The other 1.5 might get 2 or 3, so call it 2.5.
That results in 23.25 hits, and 20.67 wounds, resulting in 10.34 failed saves.

but... that is with a rather clustered gaunt group. If your opponent sees a unit of EML walkers i'm assuming s/he would spread out just a little bit more at least... meaning you could end up getting 2 or 3 with a hit, and 1 or 2 with a bad scatter (or even less than that)

So IMO EML would perform better against hordes that are either:
a) Controlled by a player who has never been pwned by multiple blasts.
b) Controlled by a player who doesn't care if his gaunts die in droves.
c) Recently consolodated 1" after combat.

All in all, i'd still go with scatter lasers on units like walkers. Unless you think you'll be facing lots of high AV vehicles, making your lasers useless (but this thread is about nids... so...)

Good thing my own eldar opponent favours EMLs then.

One bit of advice I'll offer the OP: Watch out for Trygons popping out behind your lines. No matter how much damage Scatters can do, Trygons have their own ranged weapon. The T.Prime in particular has a 12-shot weapon. Even if only 6 of those hit, they can cause quite a bit of damage (especially since a simple Imobilized can destroy a vehicle in a squadron). To say nothing of the thing charging in the following turn.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Good thing my own eldar opponent favours EMLs then.

One bit of advice I'll offer the OP: Watch out for Trygons popping out behind your lines. No matter how much damage Scatters can do, Trygons have their own ranged weapon. The T.Prime in particular has a 12-shot weapon. Even if only 6 of those hit, they can cause quite a bit of damage (especially since a simple Imobilized can destroy a vehicle in a squadron). To say nothing of the thing charging in the following turn.

He will convert as i did, then your in trouble
But generally speaking, anything near a war walker (espesially a t-prime) should kill it, with that your pretty much spot on! Best bet is to hunker down in cover and hope for a scatter with the prime.

That's the perk of the prime though, you can prettymuch DS it smack dab in the middle of your opponent's army, his surrounding troops preventing you from mishaping and you can land as close as possible. He basically has a built-in drop pod. This is really painful for any vehicles in the vicinity, as anything with a AV10 facing the Trygon P. is basically screwed.