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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Perhaps you would have been better served sending that post to NecromundaFAQ@gwplc.com

As for errors in GW 2, this document is fairly clear that it doesn't cover that book yet.

Looking at the bits you've quoted about being Prone and behind cover, the important bit on page 48 of the rulebook is "they are assumed to be out of sight", because the Zone Mortalis rules use a top-down 2D LOS rule. If you're using the Sector Mechanicus rules, then a model lying down behind one of the plastic barricades (or equivalent terrain) is indeed out of sight because of the reduced height of the model.


They use the base to determine LoS in that right? So if they're prone there's no base to use to determine it, so they need that simplification.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think it's more that it doesn't take height of a model or a terrain element into account, so in this particular case, a model being upright or Prone would otherwise mot make any difference to determining LOS.
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






I hadn't considered that that the core rules only apply to the 2D terrain, meaning prone models in cover aren't actually considered to be out of sight on 3D terrain. Good spot.

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Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





What rule says prone in cover can be targeted in 3d?

I see no exception to this rule regardless of 2d/3d.
 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Looking at the bits you've quoted about being Prone and behind cover, the important bit on page 48 of the rulebook is "they are assumed to be out of sight", because the Zone Mortalis rules use a top-down 2D LOS rule. If you're using the Sector Mechanicus rules, then a model lying down behind one of the plastic barricades (or equivalent terrain) is indeed out of sight because of the reduced height of the model.

I don't think I've ever gotten a model out of sight just by laying them down. While it's certainly possible, it never has occured in any games I've played so far. You are inferring the Zone Mortalis bit, and yes, it was written with Zone Mortalis in mind. However, other rules were written with 3d in mind (Gang War 1) and no where have I found any rule there which replaces or removes the original rule in the rulebook. Unless stated otherwise, the core rules in the underhive rulebook applies to any game regardless of 2d/3d (Gang War 1 mentions many of these core rules that does not apply to 3d. I can't see that Fighters In Hiding is one of them).

This was discussed over at Yaktribe, and there was no confusion about this rule applied to any game there.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/03/06 12:24:43


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well you have the situation where the hiding rule makes sense as a work around for 2D / having no base and you have the Faq answer.

The only way they make sense together is if being prone doesn't make you auto hide in cover in the full rules. (Or they've just ballsed up).


About the Juve/Champion max stats. I'm going to have to dig the books out when I get home, but is this not a matter of Juves becoming champions when the campaign ends? So a Juve has a max profile in one campaign, then becomes a fully fledged champion in the next and uses those max stats?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/06 12:52:16


 
   
Made in vn
Regular Dakkanaut




Vorian wrote:

About the Juve/Champion max stats. I'm going to have to dig the books out when I get home, but is this not a matter of Juves becoming champions when the campaign ends? So a Juve has a max profile in one campaign, then becomes a fully fledged champion in the next and uses those max stats?


Juve stat is not changed when they are promoted to champion, they keep their stat and credit value. Only thing that change is their wargear restriction and type, and I assume they also get armor.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm not saying their stats change - only that they now are "Champions" (with their old stats, skills, credit value) and so they now use "Champion" restrictions for equipment, skills tables and max stats
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Baxx wrote:
I don't think I've ever gotten a model out of sight just by laying them down.


The plastic barricade sections in the box (and the larger barricade pieces in the Sector Mechanicus sets) are more than 25mm high; any Escher model laid down behind one will be out of LOS.

In any case, I don't think the rule from page 48 and the FAQ entry contradict each other.

on page 48, Necromunda Underhive wrote:
FIGHTERS IN HIDING

The attacking fighter cannot target an enemy if the enemy is both Prone (see page 43) and in cover (see page 49) - they are assumed to be out of sight.


Necromunda FAQ wrote:
Q. When making a Ranged Attack, can I ignore Prone fighters for the purposes of Target Priority?
A. Good question. When a fighter is Prone, they are either Pinned or Seriously Injured. Often, a
Pinned fighter can be ignored, as they are likely to be behind cover and harder to target, meaning
that another fighter may be easier to hit. However if that is not the case, for instance, if the required
hit roll for a Pinned fighter is the same as a fighter further away, the Pinned fighter takes priority.
When a fighter is Seriously Injured, they do not represent the most obvious threat, therefore they can
be freely ignored.



Taking both into account,
1. Models Prone behind cover are considered to be out of LOS - so they are ignored when choosing a target.
2. There is a Pinned model 12" away and a standing model 14" away, both in the open. I must target the Pinned model.
3. There is a Seriously Injured model in the open 12" away and a standing model in the open 14" away. I can shoot the standing model.

Expanding on point 1., I'll need to check the rules for the definition of "in cover". Is "in cover" a different situation to "partial cover" (or whatever it's called? if so, a model that is Prone and in partial cover will NOT be out of LOS, and merely have a to-hit penalty applied to shots targeting that model as usual.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/06 13:22:22


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Baxx wrote:
I don't think I've ever gotten a model out of sight just by laying them down.


The plastic barricade sections in the box (and the larger barricade pieces in the Sector Mechanicus sets) are more than 25mm high; any Escher model laid down behind one will be out of LOS.

It's not only the height, it's most of all the width. How tall are the escher models? How wide are the barricade pieces?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/06 14:51:22


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






The height of the Escher model is irrelevant if they're placed lying back from the barricade. In any case, they're about 2" wide.

You should know this, surely? They come in the game.
   
Made in es
Capable VF-1J Valkyrie Junior Officer






 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The height of the Escher model is irrelevant if they're placed lying back from the barricade. In any case, they're about 2" wide.

You should know this, surely? They come in the game.


Well, he wouldn't be the first guy I know that bought the book from an ebay splitter, so...

That's part of the reason why I have 30 Goliaths now, after all
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The height of the Escher model is irrelevant if they're placed lying back from the barricade. In any case, they're about 2" wide.

You should know this, surely? They come in the game.

Depends on the angle, don't it? Not sure if I ever measured them, or it is a long time ago. Mostly played with 3d terrain too (still used some barricades, but mostly on ground level).
   
Made in vn
Regular Dakkanaut




All barricade are wider than a lying down escher.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





I just made a test and literally the first barricade I picked up was less than the width of a lying down model.

It was possible to 100% obscure a lying down model if the model was centered on the middle of the barricade before being Prone. However, this haven't come up any time I've played so far.
   
Made in vn
Regular Dakkanaut




You pick the only "standing" barricade that is shorter than a lying Escher, but it still cover the model enough to count as being in cover

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/06 15:58:36


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





I'm not sure what we're discussing here.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







Trying to drag this somewhere near on topic - how much has the FAQ really cleared up? What should people be sending to the FAQ email address first when it comes to getting more stuff cleared up - weapon profile inconsistencies?

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Made in us
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Affton, MO. USA

 Dysartes wrote:
Trying to drag this somewhere near on topic - how much has the FAQ really cleared up? What should people be sending to the FAQ email address first when it comes to getting more stuff cleared up - weapon profile inconsistencies?

Not sure of answer for your first question, sorry. As for what people should send, I think we should all send them part of a question, but not the whole question, then send the rest of the question in a few weeks. You should let them know that the questions will be released in quarterly amounts but their will be a compilation at the end of the year.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






 Theophony wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Trying to drag this somewhere near on topic - how much has the FAQ really cleared up? What should people be sending to the FAQ email address first when it comes to getting more stuff cleared up - weapon profile inconsistencies?

Not sure of answer for your first question, sorry. As for what people should send, I think we should all send them part of a question, but not the whole question, then send the rest of the question in a few weeks. You should let them know that the questions will be released in quarterly amounts but their will be a compilation at the end of the year.


My thanks for the best post on dakka all week.
Exalted.


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Currently most played: Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action, X-Wing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






i'm waiting to play necromunda in 2019 is this a good plan?

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Made in us
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LA

 axisofentropy wrote:
i'm waiting to play necromunda in 2019 is this a good plan?


It couldn't hurt, the game is still playable right now and there are now four modernized functional gangs released. But if you are more interested in gangs like Van Saar/Delaque/Cawdor then it's worth waiting. The only thing you might be able to get out of waiting is hopefully a compilation book, a full lineup of gangs and a well established playerbase locally. The latter of which is questionable though.

 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor



UK

^^^ this. Is what I am waiting for.
I don’t want current 3 gang and gun for hire, but I own genestealers cult which are bonus. Core rule book are in wrong book at the moment.

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The toxin fix is huge. Not just in power levels (Eschers vs Goliaths has been incredibly frustrating as I struggle to cause injuries) but also just to be able to play fluffy. They retcon Eschers to have all this cool toxin stuff but people are forced to avoid all forms of poison. The only frustrating thing is none of my Eschers are built to utilize toxins.
   
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot




San Jose, CA

 Thargrim wrote:
 axisofentropy wrote:
i'm waiting to play necromunda in 2019 is this a good plan?


It couldn't hurt, the game is still playable right now and there are now four modernized functional gangs released. But if you are more interested in gangs like Van Saar/Delaque/Cawdor then it's worth waiting. The only thing you might be able to get out of waiting is hopefully a compilation book, a full lineup of gangs and a well established playerbase locally. The latter of which is questionable though.


I'm patiently awaiting Delaque.........glad I'm not playing with all these issues.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Slightly OT... but slightly not, since the FAQ just dropped... what is currently the best place for Necro 17 rules discussion? I can't find anywhere that's very active.

The biggest rules concern in my group wasn't touched in the FAQ, and I've never really seen any discussion of it online:

It relates to the targeting rules for templates. To me, they seem like a mess. You aim at a point, not a model. You're left to interpret whether that covers the vertical 3D space in the gameplay area. If it does then someone can legally fire a template at a spot 10" above the board and possibly*** hit models under it who are hidden behind an 8" wall and completely obscured to the shooter. Basically, it turns templates into indirect fire weapons.

The alternative interpretation is that the targeted spot must be on the surface of the board, and this interpretation is just as crappy. It means that a model can stand behind a 0.5" barricade and be untargetable by a template fired from the same height, because the firer will not be able to see the point on the board behind the barricade.


*** I say possibly because the rules for who is hit by a template are also somewhat unclear. It says models "touched" by the template are hit, whereas I believe most past editions of GW games stated models "under" a template were hit. You can get some weirdness using the "touched" interpretation (ie. say a model is standing with its head 0.0005" below the feet of an adjacent ally... "touched" means only one of them could be hit by it. Unless you can place the template canted... god, it gets messier the more I think about it....
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






 Altruizine wrote:
Slightly OT... but slightly not, since the FAQ just dropped... what is currently the best place for Necro 17 rules discussion? I can't find anywhere that's very active.

The biggest rules concern in my group wasn't touched in the FAQ, and I've never really seen any discussion of it online:

It relates to the targeting rules for templates. To me, they seem like a mess. You aim at a point, not a model. You're left to interpret whether that covers the vertical 3D space in the gameplay area. If it does then someone can legally fire a template at a spot 10" above the board and possibly*** hit models under it who are hidden behind an 8" wall and completely obscured to the shooter. Basically, it turns templates into indirect fire weapons.

The alternative interpretation is that the targeted spot must be on the surface of the board, and this interpretation is just as crappy. It means that a model can stand behind a 0.5" barricade and be untargetable by a template fired from the same height, because the firer will not be able to see the point on the board behind the barricade.


*** I say possibly because the rules for who is hit by a template are also somewhat unclear. It says models "touched" by the template are hit, whereas I believe most past editions of GW games stated models "under" a template were hit. You can get some weirdness using the "touched" interpretation (ie. say a model is standing with its head 0.0005" below the feet of an adjacent ally... "touched" means only one of them could be hit by it. Unless you can place the template canted... god, it gets messier the more I think about it....


Facebook groups are the most active. For example The Underhive or Necromunda 2017 (not Necromunda Worldwide, it’s a cesspool).

Mym's hobby blog - March 29th Gaunt Summoner - painting level up!
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It is?

   
Made in vn
Regular Dakkanaut




 Altruizine wrote:


The alternative interpretation is that the targeted spot must be on the surface of the board, and this interpretation is just as crappy. It means that a model can stand behind a 0.5" barricade and be untargetable by a template fired from the same height, because the firer will not be able to see the point on the board behind the barricade.

*** I say possibly because the rules for who is hit by a template are also somewhat unclear. It says models "touched" by the template are hit, whereas I believe most past editions of GW games stated models "under" a template were hit. You can get some weirdness using the "touched" interpretation (ie. say a model is standing with its head 0.0005" below the feet of an adjacent ally... "touched" means only one of them could be hit by it. Unless you can place the template canted... god, it gets messier the more I think about it....


Barricade do not protect a model from blast marker, only wall and closed door. Barricade also do not stop a grenade from scattering. You cannot target the feet of a model hugging a barricade but you can target the barricade, and the area around

Ofc if the opponent is feeling cheeky they can chose to move X radius away from the barricade, in that case their fighter are more exposed from other angle, unless you have a 10 miles long barricade, in that case, try moving to higher ground (and stop making horrible terrain set up like this)

Blast marker don't expand vertically, but if you're feeling like that's being unfair to you, you can use the "smoke" rule for blast marker. They expand X radius away from the center. Then go and spam the faq team, facebook team until you got answer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 07:25:34


 
   
Made in nl
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.



It's not. There was about two days of OTT reaction there when the mass of non-obsessive folk first found out about the whole Underhive/Gang War-per-quarter rules carve up around release time, but it's been perfectly fine since. By which I mean, it's a normal Warhammer group - if you're using The Underhive as your yardstick it would indeed be considered a "cesspool" since it permits such monstrous activities as "not thinking the rules are very good(in terms of quality/proofreading etc)" or "expressing mild dissatisfaction with the Specialist Games business model", which generally get the INQ28-run parts of the Facebook community fetching their burning brands and pitchforks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 09:37:38


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