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jumping in 40k doesn't seem to happen, if a squad of eldar want to jump from a building to another one, they'd have to climb down the 6 inches side of a building, go towards the building, and climb up it. why don't they just jump? here is a set of rules i think that might work, let me know what you think.

If a unit would like to jump across a gap. mesure the gap between the edge of the building your unit is on, and the other edge of the desired jump area. divide the measurement by 3 (if itis only one inch they automatically make the jump and round numbers to the nearest inch) and roll the same number of dice for every troop in your unit. if a die rolls under the gap, it fails and the troop suffers a hit wich is calculable by the height of the building divided by 3 (once again, rounded to the nearest inch). The unit cannot move once it has jumped, although it can shoot and engage in close combat.

for example, a squad of 9 orks attempt to jump from a ruin to another. the gap beween them is 7inches, divide the 7inches by three, leaving 3. the squad jumps. the player rolls 3,4,6,6,4,1,2,2,3. three orks fail the jump, falling to the ground. they fell from 6inches up, divide it by 3, leaving a normal strength 2 hit. all orks survive, and hurry too there comrades, all orks got across without a wound.

DAWARBOSS wrote: the gap beween them is 7inches,

But you can only move 6 in a normal movement phase. And if you can move farther than that you are jump infantry anyway. So by your rule the highest it could ever be is 2. Could just make it a dangerous terrain test and if you roll a 1 or 2 you fall. And maybe instead for the falling just make it floor your on = str of hit, 5th floor str 5 hit.

But you can only move 6 in a normal movement phase. And if you can move farther than that you are jump infantry anyway. So by your rule the highest it could ever be is 2

alright, I agree with you on that, i made an mistake. But i think the should be able to jump 6inches if they wanted to, it would just be more dangerous.

Knives721 wrote:

DAWARBOSS wrote: the gap beween them is 7inches,

But you can only move 6 in a normal movement phase. And if you can move farther than that you are jump infantry anyway. So by your rule the highest it could ever be is 2. Could just make it a dangerous terrain test and if you roll a 1 or 2 you fall. And maybe instead for the falling just make it floor your on = str of hit, 5th floor str 5 hit.

I reckon 2 str for each floor. So second floor is 4 str. First floor you cant fall from so ignore that. 3rd floor is str 6, 4th floor and space marines are going to start splattering. None the less there isnt many situations where buildings are within 6 inches of each other.

Might wanna add some other modifyer in there as well... prehaps using initiative or something? because eldar banshees would probably jump with more grace and accuracy than guardsmen right?

I'd just take the rule straight from Necromunda. As long as the distance of the gap is equal to the amount you can still move, make an initiative test for each model moving across the gap.

Of course, the idea of a model "falling" doesn't work so well in 40k. Since falling would likely cause the unit to move out of coherency when it lands a few levels down, you'd have to spend turns moving back into coherency, which is no fun.

From there, our options are either that the unit the fell dies, or that it's simply one initiative test for the whole unit.

Think about it for a minute. Tabletop isn't to scale, far from it; what is only a few inches apart on the table might represent several metres or larger. Those two buildings might look close together now, but in actuality they're actually a good few metres apart.

Now, some units might be able to jump that (tyranids, space marines due to genetic enhancements, eldar) but others will not (imperial guard, sisters of battle, necrons), so to make it easier, I think assuming that the building is just out of reach is and was always the better option than to make rules that would only make sense to some armies.

I think the 'movement' part of the movement phase was named to be a catch-all term, assuming units will walk/hop/skip/jump to reach their destination; for example, moving down through a building might be using stairs or ladders for IG, but for Nids it might be a series of leaps from wall to wall.

Unless you had a really kickass table, this would happen too rarely to be worth mentioning.

Although, if you absolutely had to have it, I'd have it like this:

A unit can jump over small gaps if the other side of the gap is within their movement range. To do so, take an initiative test. If it is passed, place all models in the unit on the other side of the gap, either touching the edge of the gap, or in base contact with a model touching the gap. If you cannot fit a model on the edge of the gap or in base contact with a model on the edge of the gap, it counts as a casualty.
Any surviving models must then take a dangerous terrain test.

Avatar 720 wrote:Think about it for a minute. Tabletop isn't to scale, far from it; what is only a few inches apart on the table might represent several metres or larger. Those two buildings might look close together now, but in actuality they're actually a good few metres apart.

Now, some units might be able to jump that (tyranids, space marines due to genetic enhancements, eldar) but others will not (imperial guard, sisters of battle, necrons), so to make it easier, I think assuming that the building is just out of reach is and was always the better option than to make rules that would only make sense to some armies.

Right on. If a pistol can shoot something 12" away, 12" scales to be 100-150meters. Rapid fire weapons reach out to 24" thats 300+meters. Looking at that 1" is about 10m. Less than 1" and you are in Hth. At about 5 meters or such you surely dont want to be holding a rifle at someone charging you, its time for pistols and knives. But you still couldnt jump all the way to where they stand so you close the distance.

Ummm... I think you're having a problem imagining scale.

These are people (or Orks or whatever) of approximately human capabilities. They're carrying large guns, giant axes, extra ammo, grenades, etc and weighed down by lots of armor.

They're not going to be jumping very far.

Your math results in a model being able to jump 18" 1/6 of the time. That's just crazy.

A better proposal:

Jumping
A model may attempt to jump across a gap. To do so, measure the distance of the gap. Multiply that result by 3, this is your target number. Roll a d6, and if the result is less than or equal to the target number, place your model on the other side of the gap. Congratulations! He's made the jump. If you roll more than the target number, the model has not made the jump. Measure the height of the gap they are attempting to jump. The model takes a hit with strength equal to the square of the measured height. This hit does not allow saves of any kind, and if the model has Eternal Warrior, it loses all resistance to Instant Death from this wound. Anything with a S of more than 10 counts as killing the model instantly, without having to roll to wound.

Clearly, jumping between buildings is a rather suicidal idea. The first model to attempt it does so without fear, as they too have seen too many actions movies. Every soldier that is killed due to trying to jump, the squad loses confidence in their commander's sanity. To represent this, every time a model suffers a wound due to jumping, every member of the squad loses 1 Ld permanently, and the squad must take a moral check. If the squad is fearless, they must still make a leadership check, but if they fail, they simply stop trying to jump across buildings.

How does that scale bewteen armies though? Naturally, tyranids are far better at traversing terrain that your average joe guardsman, but that doesn't translate to the rule, which goes back to my point of having rules that make absolutely no sense for some armies.

The bit about losing EW also doesn't make sense, a Daemon Prince dies from smacking his face on the corner of a building but survives 3 demolishers shells to the face previously?

Avatar 720 wrote:How does that scale bewteen armies though? Naturally, tyranids are far better at traversing terrain that your average joe guardsman, but that doesn't translate to the rule, which goes back to my point of having rules that make absolutely no sense for some armies.

The bit about losing EW also doesn't make sense, a Daemon Prince dies from smacking his face on the corner of a building but survives 3 demolishers shells to the face previously?

A Daemon Prince dying from a fall actually makes more sense. Sure, he can survive lots of really powerful weapons, but that's because he's so big and tough.

In terms of falling, being big and tough is the OPPOSITE of what you want. Since mass scales with volume, a Daemon Prince will weight much much much more than a human. Your main resistance to fall damage is bone strength. And, bone strength only scales with cross sectional area. So, if you double the size of something (in terms of height), it's 8 times as massive and only 4 times as resistant to falling.

This means that a Daemon Prince will be killed by a much SHORTER fall than a human.

There is plenty of analog in RL as well. Take an elephant. It can survive a bullet wound much better than a human can. But, an elephant is killed from a fall of only a few feet. On the other end of the spectrum, take a mouse. A mouse is not going to stand a chance at surviving a bullet wound. But, it can survive falls of heights that seem to defy logic. In fact, you get small enough (say a spider), and it's terminal velocity is actually too slow to kill it. So, a spider could theoretically fall from an infinite distance and still survive.

You're looking at this like a Daemon Prince isn't partly a warp manifestation; for all we know, daemon prince bones could be unbreakable, or they might even have no bones, just a psychic interior, in which case there is nothing to break.

There's also the height factor; what would be a leap to a guardsman might be a tiny step to a Daemon Prince or Hive Tyrant, similarly, they would be able to cross gaps in one long step that a guardsman would have trouble covering in a leap. The building might just be a simple hop to the ground.

You can jump...but you need a jump pack.

Grakmar wrote:A model may attempt to jump across a gap. To do so, measure the distance of the gap. Multiply that result by 3, this is your target number. Roll a d6, and if the result is less than or equal to the target number, place your model on the other side of the gap. Congratulations! He's made the jump. If you roll more than the target number, the model has not made the jump.

that means that they will have a harder time jumping over a 1inch gap than a 6inch gap

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Grakmar wrote:A model may attempt to jump across a gap. To do so, measure the distance of the gap. Multiply that result by 3, this is your target number. Roll a d6, and if the result is less than or equal to the target number, place your model on the other side of the gap. Congratulations! He's made the jump. If you roll more than the target number, the model has not made the jump.

that means that they will have a harder time jumping over a 1inch gap than a 6inch gap

You're right. I wrote the opposite of what I meant.

If you roll equal to or greater than your target, you make the jump. If you roll less than, you fall.

So, 2" jump is the maximum distance you can do (and that only 1/6 of the time)

DakkaDakka wrote:

just roll a dangerous terrain test for every gap op 1" and never let them jump more than that... It isn't a helicopter extraction scene from MW2...

The idea is good but severly flawed because it would really change from race to race. Imo, initiative or strength should be taken into account. For example, more agile creatures like Eldar can surely jump further than guard? Then again, wouldn't a stronger creature like a Space Marine be able to jump further than a guard?

It could be fit in for agile and swift races like eldar have fleet, so you could let units with fleet jump 2 inch .

But then Tyranids (hormies and genestealers mainly) are able to jump a lot further than Eldar, so what then?

But it's the same as running, I'm sure an tyrinid can run faster than a gaurdsman. It's obvious in warhammer fantasy that the troops move diferently. But in 40k all troops move at the same speed, unless they have a larger base. So why should jumping be any different?

A tyranid can run faster than a guardsman, but the movement phase doesn't say how long the moves would take in a real fight. If it said "You may move 6", this represents 1 minute of movement in real time" then fair enough, but it doesn't say that, so we just assume that units take different amounts of time to move the same distance.

It's like how the whole game works, one General doesn't shoot and then shout "Your turn!" in the middle of a war do they? We just assume that any shooting that goes on between what each player does is of no importance to the fight or that they targetted enemies outside the scenario you're playing (remember that you are not fighting the war, you're fighting part of it).

TL;DR - We assume that each unit takes different amounts of time to move in the movement phase. Because jumping would be a specific type of movement, we';d have to factor in each army's atheletic ability as opposed to the moves in the movement phase, where exactly how they move is not specified at all.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Yeah that is totaly realistic, he would probably help them over one by one with his jump pack