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This is a bit of a n00b question on my part, i'm trying to get into Fantasy so I wanted to ask you guys a very general question.

So, How DO you kit out your Lords/Heroes? It seems in WHFB it is a lot harder to find a "Working" set up for someone new to an Army, I have a look for the O&G, Bret and TK books and I find it hard to give my characters the equipment to deal with anything. I either choose to much that's to expensive OR I choose a lot of little crappy items that don't amount to much of anything.

How do you guys do it?..Do you go into it thinking "I want a Killy/Magic/Defensive" general etc?..Or do you let it flow more naturally?

I had NOWHERE near this much problem outfitting my Marshal for my BT. So i'm wondering how everyone else does it!

Generally it depends on the army. Some, like Greenskins, don't need to outfit their heroes particularly well because they're not important on their own. Then there are armies like VC, where the hero is your priority, in which case, load them up with as much killy as possible.

So it's down to Army-by-Army basis?..Not a person's personal preference?

Or do they both come to play?

These are the two "Main Builds" I have for O&G and VC

Vampire Lord - 405.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 3; Necromancy
The Master: Lord of the Dead
The Arkayne: Master of the Black Arts
Sword of Might
Flayed Hauberk
Talisman of Preservation

and

Black Orc Warboss - 234.0 Pts
General; Choppa; Heavy Armour; Shield
Trickster's Helm
Ironcurse Icon
Ulag's Akk'rit Axe

Part of me can't help but think that neither has a properly "Defined" role and I find it hard to figure out how to use them with the rest of the Army!

For my Dark Elves, they're purpose-driven. The only time I'd bring a Dreadlord is on a dragon, in which case he'd come with either a 4+ ward save or the reverse ward pendant. I'd tack on an appropriate killing weapon and call it a day.

For a Master I generally take them as a BSB or on a Manticore; in either case a ward/regen save and a weapon is usually the way I go since my T3 2W Masters don't stick around long if I don't. Since both the reverse ward and regen armor are 35 points, my weapon is usually the Sword of Might or something mundane if that's already in use. If I weren't so overly concerned with survivability I'd probably play around with other loadouts, but my opponents tend to ignore armor saves when character hunting so I have to invest in alternate methods of survival.

My magic users are pretty easy to take care of. Ward save on the Lv.4 and maybe a dispel scroll. Lv.2 gets a magic-boosting item, either +1 spell or +1 power die. One day I might add in Guiding Eye since I always stick my Lv.2 with a wall of Crossbowmen and a round of re-rolls could be fun.

Here is how I run my dwarf Heroes/Lords

Thane (BSB, MRoGromril,RoResistance,RoPreservation,RotFurnace) - 160
Runelord (RoBalance, RoSpellbreakingx2, RoStone,RoPreservation,RoResistance,Shield) - 238
Runesmith (RoBalance,RoStone,RoPreservation,RotFurnace,Shield) - 147

It really depends on the role of the Lord/Hero, at least for my skaven.

My BSB needs to stick around, so I make sure he ends up with a 4+ ward, either from Armor of Destiny or from a Talisman of Preservation. I'd give him a magic banner, but the re-roll has thusfar been important enough that I'd really rather he was around.

I've run a few warlords, usually kept cheap and stuck in a unit to boost leadership. Halberd, Talisman of Endurance and maybe a magic helm or something.

Grey Seers will get a ward save if they're not on a bell, if they are they usually get Skalm and a Scroll of some sort.

I like:
Trimmed down uber-Slann=380
Lore of Life
BSB+Standard of Discipline
The Focused Rumination
The Becalming Cogitation
Plaque of Tepok
Put in TG enjoy LD 10 coldblooded and lore

Survivor&support Skink Priest=435
Engine of the Gods
Dawnstone
Sispel Scroll
Launch into chaff units, burn stuff up while re-rolling 2+ armor.

Slann guard Scar-vet=123
Light Armour
Shield
Burning Blade of Chotec
Dragonhelm
That bret lord has a flaming lance you say, how interesting.
Oh noes a hydra! If only there was someone with a higher initiative than my temple guards to (hopefully) flame wound it first

Hargus56 wrote:Here is how I run my dwarf Heroes/Lords

Thane (BSB, MRoGromril,RoResistance,RoPreservation,RotFurnace) - 160
Runelord (RoBalance, RoSpellbreakingx2, RoStone,RoPreservation,RoResistance,Shield) - 238
Runesmith (RoBalance,RoStone,RoPreservation,RotFurnace,Shield) - 147

Hey mate, if those are in the same army you can't duplicate the Master rune of balance.

But for my Dwarfs it's mostly defensive, especially for my BSB I don't want my guys dying. So pretty much Great weapons all round, cause if I'm going last I may as well hit at S6, and defensive runes.

For my Lizards, it varies. With the new common magic items list my BSB scar vet finally gets a decent armour and ward save together, skink priests, not really a set idea, just a couple of cheap items to boost their casting a little bit. Although for my Slann I tend to give him the works.

How did you guys find these builds though?..Was it through a lot of trail and error?

Am I as a new player expecting to much?..That I should instantly know how to run my army and make the best lord set-up?

When i started i just copied the uberslaan builds i saw on the web, over time however i decided he costs to much and started to trim down the excess. The priest comes from my realisation that 2+ re-rollable is a great way to get stuck in some skavenslaves and then burning alignment the heck out of everything nearby. The reason for the vet is that i sometimes found the TG needed help so i added some, plus i find that having flaming protection in a generally regenerating unit is epic lulz.

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:How did you guys find these builds though?..Was it through a lot of trail and error?

Am I as a new player expecting to much?..That I should instantly know how to run my army and make the best lord set-up?

I don't know about everyone else, but definatly trial and error for me. Although I am quite a defensivly minded player as well, especially in computer games and the like, I tend to weather the storm then counter attack.

While it can be a bit overwhelming to see the amount of options/magic weapons etc, your best bet would be to have a think about what you want the character in question to do.

eg: I want my scar-vet BSB to live for as long as possible to give me cold-blooded re-rolls, so thinking about that I want a good armour and ward save. So I give him the Armour of Destiny and a shield, so combined with his scaly skin save he gets a 2+ AS and a 4+ Ward, he's S5 already so doesn't really need another weapon, and the rules now say if I take a GW I can't use the shield in CC anymore.

But if I had the same scar-vet in an army with a Slann BSB, then I might give him some killy weapons, as it's not as important that he survives all the time.

perplexiti wrote:

Hargus56 wrote:Here is how I run my dwarf Heroes/Lords

Thane (BSB, MRoGromril,RoResistance,RoPreservation,RotFurnace) - 160
Runelord (RoBalance, RoSpellbreakingx2, RoStone,RoPreservation,RoResistance,Shield) - 238
Runesmith (RoBalance,RoStone,RoPreservation,RotFurnace,Shield) - 147

Hey mate, if those are in the same army you can't duplicate the Master rune of balance.

But for my Dwarfs it's mostly defensive, especially for my BSB I don't want my guys dying. So pretty much Great weapons all round, cause if I'm going last I may as well hit at S6, and defensive runes.

For my Lizards, it varies. With the new common magic items list my BSB scar vet finally gets a decent armour and ward save together, skink priests, not really a set idea, just a couple of cheap items to boost their casting a little bit. Although for my Slann I tend to give him the works.

Affirmative, I'll run one or the other depending on how many points. Typically the Runelord at or above 2k, anything lower is the Runesmith.

@Hargus56:

Cool as mate, just checking. I know I miss loads of little rules all the time...;P

Ill change the rest of the characters about alot (most games) but my old blood stays pretty much the same every time.


Old blood: scimitar, maiming shield, carnosaur.
8 S5 attacks from him, plus 4 more and frenzy on the saur.
Makes a nice unit killer character.

Or if im against alot of monsters / monsterous infantry ill take piranha blade instead of the scimitar for the double unsaved wounds.


He started off simply because i loved the model.
Once i'd had a few games and got used to what he could do ive never left him behind.




Rest of the characters usually consist of a BSB vet and priests though, or if i have points to spare, a chief on terradon for solo machine hunting.

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:How did you guys find these builds though?..Was it through a lot of trail and error?

Am I as a new player expecting to much?..That I should instantly know how to run my army and make the best lord set-up?

I wouldn't say trial and error so much as looking at what you want out of your character, and after a few games you'll see how your opponent tends to react to them. For instance, my Lv.4 Sorceress is either completely ignored (rarely) or she is the target of at least one war machine per turn trying to kill her. As such, she typically gets my Reverse Ward save, relatively inexpensive and fantastic for survival purposes. She needs this more than she needs more magic ability since a Lv.4 Dark Elf wizard is already a stronger caster than most standard Lv.4's thanks to Power of Darkness.

My Lv.2's on the other hand are nearly always ignored and benefit greatly from having another spell or an extra power die. For them, survival isn't as important for me since they're either ignored or they go poof quickly enough to not bother with.

While my Dark Elves can get decent armor saves with mundane gear and a mount, they have a rough time against anything that can ignore armor and are not sturdy enough (T3 W2) and aren't cheap enough (105pts base for a naked BSB, ouch!) for me to be comfortable leaving their survival to being ignored or not. People don't ignore BSBs and they don't often ignore generals, especially squishy ones that they can catch.

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:How did you guys find these builds though?..Was it through a lot of trail and error?

Am I as a new player expecting to much?..That I should instantly know how to run my army and make the best lord set-up?

Well, my design for my Slann went something like this:

Postulate 1: the strongest magic lores are heavy on force multiplyers and backed up by some offensive spells. Therefore, My Slann shall fulfill the roll of a force multiplyer.

Postulate 2: A Slann is expensive, therefore I must take Items to maximize the offence, and protect it from danger.

Postulate 3: A Slann is expensive, Therefore I must maximize it's magical ability.

To fulfill the terms of my first postulate, I added a Battle Standard and Standard of Discipline. I also chose Lore of Light.

To adress the second postulate, I gave it the becalming Cogitation, to protect it from enemy wazards, and the Cupped Hands of the old ones, to protect it from itself.

The final postulate was adressed by giving it the focused Rumination and the Focus of Mystery.

So, that is my Slann.

In my 2500 brett list I found a way to put in a 2nd lord because a pally couldn't take all the equipment I wanted.
He now gets 4 attacks, at WS6, S5, ignore armour, are flaming and has heroic killing blow.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Old blood: scimitar, maiming shield, carnosaur.
8 S5 attacks from him, plus 4 more and frenzy on the saur.
Makes a nice unit killer character.

Did you know you'd get the same effect with a sword of bloodshed (BRB) and a regular shield for 14 pts less, more than enough for a light armour and the 1+ save that comes with it

Im yet to get into the new edition, so this i must look into


However, it does mean i can now run both layouts in the same army
Just minus a saur lol.

Ahh i see, try and get the minibook from the starter set if you can it's golden

Carni, that Slann sounds like an absolute monster. CHotOO is amazing, really.

But yeah, make your lord's equipment relative to what you want them to do. If you want to keep them alive, stick as much armour and ward saves as you can on them, conversely, if you want offensive power, you can do that.

I'm curious, what army are you planning to go with?

Well, part of me want's to go Bretonnian, I have a fantastic Idea for a "King Arthur" based army us Valten the Exalted as Arthur with some minor converting! Also would have the "Champion" of each unit as a knight from the round table! (Lancelot, Gawain etc.)

I just LOVE the tomb kings though, "The Casket" and massed poison arrow shooting makes me love them, also the tomb scorpions and the WHFB version of "Deep Striking", plus the Egyptian feel is intense!

O&G are an unknown to me, I love the models and the rules and the general "feel" of "Da boyz", I love the idea of huge blocks of "boyz" charging into enemies and chopping them up.

In essence what im trying to say is, I'm undecided!

For O&G the new book is coming out in March so you can see how they change them.
TK are scedualed for an update somewhere around May-July so things are getting shuffeled there too.
Brets are a bit old but can still pull some pretty unique tricks and tactics.
Either way whatever army you finally settle on make sure you enjoy all aspects of it to the fullest (models, playstile, background, etc), since you'll be stuck with it for a while.

Usually depends on the army, but here are a few principles:

Sorcerer Lord (L4) - Normally run with a good Ward Save to keep him save (the 4+ one if possible), possibly an arcane item but not much else. Mounts depend on the rest of the army (or Mark). Sometimes take things like the Screaming Blade, as it adds fear to an infantry unit he joins if he's on foot.

BSB - Load up with protective gear, and if I have points a weapon (which usually ends up mundane); I need this guy to live normally.

Chaos Lord - I have an annoying build I used: MoT, Disc, Crown of Command, 4+ Ward; add weapons and gifts for spice. What he does is fly around and tie up huge units with stubborn Ld9 while being hard to kill.

Hero Wizard - Usually go with Tzeentch here, as it's easier to cast. Generally take a disc and have them shooting missiles or just staying out of the way and using Pandamonium. Blood curdling roar for a disc wizard is quite handy if you're up against 1+ saves.

One thing I have learnt from this thread is ALWAYS get a good save on your Wizard.

Your BSB also needs some good armour on it!

So I'm learning, slowly but surely!

Heres how I equip my orc shaman:
Skal ‘ead zapper: Great orc shaman: L4, power scroll, talisman of preservation, nibbla’s itty ring. Total 290

Empire Captain with typical Knightly armour and mount
Sword of Righteous Steel and a Potion of strength
basically lets me Hit on a 2+ and Wound on a 2+ with -4Armour, works as a one hit wonder to cause more damage than he's worth. hitting on a 2+ and having a +1Sv means he can still kill things if he lasts.

ooh, how about a Griffon, Meteoric Iron, Dawn Stone (combine for re-roll +1Sv because a Griffon won't boost my armour), Holy Relic(++4Sv) and Greatsword? now that's a point sink-hole that won't get its moneys worth. that's like 400 points.

I personally make them for fun and have learned nothing over the years as every choice I make for my heroes work out pretty much how I expect them to. it's the damn soldiers that confuse me.

well, I have learnt to always bring a Crystal Ball to find the enemies hidden surprises...

Lotet wrote:because a Griffon won't boost my armour

Yes he will, but by one point less than a barded steed.

For my Lords & Heroes, I tend to either kit them light or with a purpose.

For example, my Night Goblin Warbosses only had either anti-armor equipment, kamikaze equipment (Though that was often saved for a Big Boss), or magical supplementary equipment (Rings, Wizarding Hat, etcetera).

For my Orcs, I either focused on durability or offensive power. Durability is relatively simple, taking Heavy Armor, Shield / Enchanted Shield, a Dragon Helm (if taking a mundane shield), and either a Talisman of Endurance or Preservation. 3+ / 5+ or 3+ / 4+ is sufficiently decent for an infantry lord to have as a save when going for durability, at least when combined with T5 and WS7.

For offense, last edition I would focus on stuff like Ulag's Akrit Axe (for re-rolls) or Shaga's Screamin' Sword (For the bubble effect). With those going in the new book, saving the points and instead keeping regular weapons, and thus potentially using two choppas, is about as sufficient, as you don't need that much to increase a S5-S6 Lord's offensive capability if they can get 5 or more attacks at that level. Extra strength past 5-6 is usually spared for either anti-armor, or Dura-Character hunting.

HoverBoy wrote:

Lotet wrote:because a Griffon won't boost my armour

Yes he will, but by one point less than a barded steed.

oh? hmm... so it's true, was that the case in older editions? I suppose that comes from fighting small scale battles on rare occasions with only a few people. I use other peoples minis for big fights and there's even less planning going on there.