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Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

Does taking a 20 man unit of kroot with shaper, nothing else, work as a power blob? My only concern is it getting chewed up before it actually does anything, as a 6+ armour save isnt anything to be proud of. At about 180 points, is it too expensive to be a power blob?

And also, this will probably be mostly using kroot merc rules: http://trobarts.customer.netspace.net.au/5th_ed_kroot_mercenaries_army_list_by_kompletely_kroot_V5.85.pdf Page 20 for carnivores

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/21 19:44:51



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

They don't have stubborn, so no.


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Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

No stubborn pretty much immediately rules them out. A max of one hidden power weapon, too, IIRC.

A large unit Kroot with no upgrades can be a nice utility piece. It can Infiltrate to block off a table edge from Outflankers. It can Infiltrate to bubblewrap all or most of your army from first turn alpha strikes from Scouting units like Deffcoptas or Baals. It can be pretty durable sitting on an objective in cover, particularly a wood with their +1; their LD is bad, though, so it's usually better to use small squads for that. With a pile of S4 shots or attacks in HtH, they can be quite respectable against light-medium infantry units in assault, particularly if the Kroot are in terrain and the assaulting unit lacks grenades, like most Tyranids.

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Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

What if I add an evicerator? (basically a chainfist)


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not really. If they can't tarpit (IE Stubborn) then they are fairly useless as a power blob.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Yeah, the reason a power blob is good is because it gets a lot of attacks in OVER TIME. Without stubborn, good leadership, or a reroll to morale tests, the kroot aren't going to be able to stick around long enough to get enough attacks in.

The only real alternative is if you do so much damage up front, that you don't need the morale quite as much, but that only works for things like IoCG CSM or ork boyz (who kill stuff before they loose fearless).

Otherwise, you need fearless or some other morale booster in order to have the turn after turn of combat that gives you enough attacks to make it all possible.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

What if I add an HQ for 75p, which grants fearless, and allows the squad to reroll misses? Would that make it a potent force? He is Unique though, so it cant be at all widespread


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

It's getting better, but your source of fearless is still on an independent character.

With temporary fearless you've got like a half-blob. It can do some of the things, but not all things (like no tarpitting, and with much greater difficulty against high-damage units).


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

Well, this blob is putting out about 40 S4 attacks a turn, with several power fist attacks too, is fearless, and can re-roll attacks, this is now at 280p, I don't think there is anything else I can really add, would krootox/hounds make much difference, or does the fact that it isnt stubborn, and independent character is giving them fearless, make it so that they just don't work as a power blob?


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

What you're talking about is more like a howling banshee squad. They charge in, and do terrible carnage, but then they die horribly.

I'm not saying what you're proposing is necessarily bad, so much as it's not blob-like.

Because you may be arriving with 20 dudes and two eviscerators, but your source of fearless will disappear in a real dang hurry, meaning breaking and running. Plus, their armor save is half as good as a regular blob.

That and it's considerably more expensive, as in, it costs as much for 1 kroot "blob" as 1 and 2/3ds of a guard blob.

Their real strength is that they can get good cover saves, and they can infiltrate in for a good strong charge, after that, though, I question their staying power.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

I really can't find anything that might help them. Well, it looks like it was never destined to be, thanks for your help!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/21 21:34:00



 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre





Richmond, VA

Kroot aren't CC powerhouses, and their armor is technically a waste of points. You should outflank or infiltate with kroot and just hit the enemy with maxed out squads if your trying to do CC with them. Even then, going at int 1 and having T 3 with no (worthwhile) armor save AND no power weapon/fist means you just can't do much besides assault shooting focused units.

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Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

juraigamer wrote:Kroot aren't CC powerhouses, and their armor is technically a waste of points. You should outflank or infiltate with kroot and just hit the enemy with maxed out squads if your trying to do CC with them. Even then, going at int 1 and having T 3 with no (worthwhile) armor save AND no power weapon/fist means you just can't do much besides assault shooting focused units.


I am using kroot merc list, at the top, so shapers can take chain fists


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Sharjah

Just FYI, I don't believe the Kroot Merc list is still legal. I wouldn't have a problem with it, but others may.

Otherwise, one problem is that Kroot have a big problem against many MEQ units. Suppose you have 20 Kroot and 1 Shaper with a chainfist, and charge 10 Tac Marines. The marines get 11 attacks, hit with 5.5, wound with about 4, 4 dead Kroot. The shaper has 3 wounds, so he probably survives to attack. The Kroot get at least 48 regular attacks, depending on allocation towards the shaper, and 4 chainfist attacks, which is 24 regular hits, 12 regular wounds and 4 dead marines. The chainfist hits twice, probably wounds twice for 6 total dead marines.

But, at least in a competitive setting, you're likely to encounter Space Wolves or Blood Angels, neither of which is likely to use Tac Marines. Against GH, you're facing around 30 attacks, which is about 10 wounds, which likely means the Shaper is toast. So, assume 4 wounds on the Shaper, so 14 Kroot survive to attack, which is 42 attacks, 21 hits around 11 wounds or about 4 dead GH. You've just lost the combat 9 to 4, and you're leadership is what, 7 or 8? So, your "Kroot Power Blob" just broke and ran when getting the charge against a pretty basic troops unit. With the ubiquitous Wolf Standard involved, it would be even worse. Note that an IG power blob would do much better here, since the PW attacks can't be singled out and the unit is Stubborn. The IG blob gets about the same result, but it's Stubborn and will probably win the battle of attrition.

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Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre





Richmond, VA

Yea the merc list isn't legal. You have to get your opponent to agree to your usage of it and most if not all tourneys will ban you from playing it.

Your better off trying to do melee guard blobs.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





That particular list is illegal (well you need your opponents permission to use it anyway). It's a fan-made list, not the original GW one. I would not play a game against you if you used that list. I would be fine with the GW one, but never a fandex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/23 07:04:17


 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

Oh yeah, I know that, my friends let me play it, as do some people at my club.


 
   
 
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