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I was looking at the codex today and trying to figure out the perfect build for a nob squad that is:

a) Big, so probably maxed out at 10
b) Durable, but noit meganobz,
c) Able to lay a beating and
d) not overly priced. Though of course it will not be cheap


Here is my draft:

9 Nobz, 1 Painboy
Painboy: Regular stuff
9 Nobz: 6 big choppa/slugga, 3 powerclaw, slugga. 3 attacks each, 4 on the assault
Each one has cybork bodies, 1 bosspole, one Whagh banner

Mount them in either a trukk or battlewagon. If I have Ghazgull, I might add him. Or a Big Mek.

If I have some points leftover, I could consider stikkbombz.

405 points total, plus cost of transport.

Does anyone have a better build they know of?

The optimal 10 man (way overkill) build is something like:
cybork bodies
PK
PK + bp
PK + ssk
BC
BC + runt
BC + ssk
runt
ssk
Waaagh! banner
painboy

3 shoota skorcha kombis can be very handy.
You have two ways to go:
1. Add a Warboss with a pole, cybork, klaw, and squig on a bike and put them on bikes.
2. Add Ghaz and a wagon wif red paint, a big shoota or two for weapon destroyed, and a deff rolla.

Kitted for wound allocation and capable of killing death itself.

Is there some rule about that? If they're all different, you can spread wounds around? I have heard about it.

@ Inigo Montoya: I'd rather drop the two runts to give one bc nob a twin-linked shoota/komib rockit. That's one less point and your nobz are still all different from each other.
Also, no need for a bosspole on your Warboss if you have one in your Unit.

If you don't wan't to put them on bikes you could also add 'eavy armor to some and put the waaghbanner on an acutally useful(PK) nob.

bucheonman wrote:Is there some rule about that? If they're all different, you can spread wounds around? I have heard about it.

Yes Sir there is, it's under the Wound Allocation section in the main rulebook.

My nob build - I prefer rokkits because of their ability to open tanks, and I take ammo runts (3 for the four kombi-rokkits expecting to get 1 hit and 3 rerolls). Kombi-skorchas are dangerous and could leave you out of assault - much prefer rokkits.

Nob Unit:
1. Bosspole
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Powerklaw
4. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
5. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
6. Big Choppa
7. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
8. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
9. Ammo Runt
10. Painboy

Cybork bodies on everyone, and they have a 5++ invulnerable save with a 4+ Feel No Pain.

In terms of wound allocation, you determine wound grounds by wargear. Since each of these 10 models is equipped differently, you have 10 wound groups. So if you take 10 wounds, you assign them equally amongst your wound groups - one to each model, and roll your saves. You can theoretically fail 10 wounds and still not lose a single model.

Additionally, I would *never* recommend putting Ghazghkull Thraka with the nobs. In the same army absolutely, but never with the nobs. They have different strengths that complement each other in an army, but don't fit together. STR8+ weapons (say for example a unit of Thunderhammer/Stormshield terminators) can insta-kill nobs. You definitely don't want your nobs going after TH/SS terminators. Ghazghkull on the other hand has Eternal Warrior and a 2++....he'll play with those terminators all day long (or until they are dead or the Waaaugh! is over). On the flip side, Nobs are great for tearing through MEQs - which Ghazghkull is wasted against. Ghazghkull is a good way to take down Monstrous Creatures that bypass armour saves and feel no pain, nobs are not. Nobs are good for taking on Genestealer mobs because they can shrug off most of the wounds and allocate the rest to not lose any; Ghazghkull can only make so many 2++ saves.

If the enemy has volume of attacks, throw nobs at them.
If the enemy has quality attacks, throw Ghazghkull at them.

Dashofpepper wrote:My nob build - I prefer rokkits because of their ability to open tanks, and I take ammo runts (3 for the four kombi-rokkits expecting to get 1 hit and 3 rerolls). Kombi-skorchas are dangerous and could leave you out of assault - much prefer rokkits.

Nob Unit:
1. Bosspole
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Powerklaw
4. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
5. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
6. Big Choppa
7. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
8. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
9. Ammo Runt
10. Painboy

Cybork bodies on everyone, and they have a 5++ invulnerable save with a 4+ Feel No Pain.

In terms of wound allocation, you determine wound grounds by wargear. Since each of these 10 models is equipped differently, you have 10 wound groups. So if you take 10 wounds, you assign them equally amongst your wound groups - one to each model, and roll your saves. You can theoretically fail 10 wounds and still not lose a single model.

Additionally, I would *never* recommend putting Ghazghkull Thraka with the nobs. In the same army absolutely, but never with the nobs. They have different strengths that complement each other in an army, but don't fit together. STR8+ weapons (say for example a unit of Thunderhammer/Stormshield terminators) can insta-kill nobs. You definitely don't want your nobs going after TH/SS terminators. Ghazghkull on the other hand has Eternal Warrior and a 2++....he'll play with those terminators all day long (or until they are dead or the Waaaugh! is over). On the flip side, Nobs are great for tearing through MEQs - which Ghazghkull is wasted against. Ghazghkull is a good way to take down Monstrous Creatures that bypass armour saves and feel no pain, nobs are not. Nobs are good for taking on Genestealer mobs because they can shrug off most of the wounds and allocate the rest to not lose any; Ghazghkull can only make so many 2++ saves.

If the enemy has volume of attacks, throw nobs at them.
If the enemy has quality attacks, throw Ghazghkull at them.

So does your Ghazzie go solo then?

Yup, I absolutely run ghaz with the nobs. He breaks off for units that would trash the nobs and handles them alone. They are different, but their unique properties and abilities complement one another.

I also prefer the skorcha to the rokkit. Sure, rokkits open armor. Very poorly. Skorchas are your salvation against horde trying to tarpit you. My nobs are not shooty anti armor units, and I do not equip them as such.

In my 2k list, I have:

Ghazghkull with Burnas in one battlewagon
Nobs by themselves in a second wagon
KFF Mek + Boyz in a third wagon

The point of this is so that every wagon has a powerklaw that my boarding planks can utilize. Splitting Ghazghkull off from Nobs only works if there are ideal targets for each next to each other - and since they'd be splitting *anyway* I'd rather just not put him in there in the first place.

By the same token, I have 18 boyz in a wagon that will find their own target;

Burna Boyz are awesome, but are fragile and expensive to charge, so I want to make *very* sure that I spend them wisely - Ghazghkull is best used either supporting my Burnas (I'd absolutely assault burnas into TH/SS terminators or monstrous creatures - the same targets Ghazghkull has), or split him off to attack something else if the burnas have it covered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inigo Montoya wrote:Yup, I absolutely run ghaz with the nobs. He breaks off for units that would trash the nobs and handles them alone. They are different, but their unique properties and abilities complement one another.

I also prefer the skorcha to the rokkit. Sure, rokkits open armor. Very poorly. Skorchas are your salvation against horde trying to tarpit you. My nobs are not shooty anti armor units, and I do not equip them as such.

That depends on your list. I have a unit of 15 burna boyz; I'm not going to risk not being able to get my nobs into assault because I kill a model or three, and if I need template action, I have 15 of them. To each their own. *shrugs*

Dashofpepper wrote:My nob build - I prefer rokkits because of their ability to open tanks, and I take ammo runts (3 for the four kombi-rokkits expecting to get 1 hit and 3 rerolls). Kombi-skorchas are dangerous and could leave you out of assault - much prefer rokkits.

Nob Unit:
1. Bosspole
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Powerklaw
4. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
5. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
6. Big Choppa
7. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
8. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
9. Ammo Runt
10. Painboy

Cybork bodies on everyone, and they have a 5++ invulnerable save with a 4+ Feel No Pain.

In terms of wound allocation, you determine wound grounds by wargear. Since each of these 10 models is equipped differently, you have 10 wound groups. So if you take 10 wounds, you assign them equally amongst your wound groups - one to each model, and roll your saves. You can theoretically fail 10 wounds and still not lose a single model.

Additionally, I would *never* recommend putting Ghazghkull Thraka with the nobs. In the same army absolutely, but never with the nobs. They have different strengths that complement each other in an army, but don't fit together. STR8+ weapons (say for example a unit of Thunderhammer/Stormshield terminators) can insta-kill nobs. You definitely don't want your nobs going after TH/SS terminators. Ghazghkull on the other hand has Eternal Warrior and a 2++....he'll play with those terminators all day long (or until they are dead or the Waaaugh! is over). On the flip side, Nobs are great for tearing through MEQs - which Ghazghkull is wasted against. Ghazghkull is a good way to take down Monstrous Creatures that bypass armour saves and feel no pain, nobs are not. Nobs are good for taking on Genestealer mobs because they can shrug off most of the wounds and allocate the rest to not lose any; Ghazghkull can only make so many 2++ saves.

If the enemy has volume of attacks, throw nobs at them.
If the enemy has quality attacks, throw Ghazghkull at them.

I feel vindicated by the kombi rockets in your deathstar nob squad I do the same thing and have copped heaps of flak about it from my gaming fiends, I knew it was the right thing to do damnit!! =)

Stick to your gunz...er, rokkits.

Besides, if those nobs *need* to assault a monstrous creature, rokkits are going to prepare your way far better than template weapons.

Im gonna chime in for rokkits as well for the same reasons dash gave!

I switched between both rokkits and skorchas for a while and found the rokkits were better for me simply because it made my nobz potentially useful at range for a while. I dont usually fire off my nobz rokkits...but they are usually around targets that rokkits are far better at taking out then skorchas...if my nobz are about to get swarmed by a horde of guys, then Ive already probably done something wrong...or my opponent got lucky and took out that BW a bit too early...

Also with the sheer number of attacks nobz get combined with their insane durability they shouldnt remain tarpitted for long!

A debate you need to sort out in your head is the value of big choppas versus choppa + slugga. i.e. Is +2 S at +5 cost really worth it versus +1 attack? Do a little mathhammer and sort it out 6 uge choppa nobs at 150 pts for 18 attacks versus 6 choppa nobs at 120 for 24 attacks. Frankly your killing power is probably going to come out of the PK nobz so 5 uge choppas = 1 more PK and then you can live with the wound allocation to the large number of choppa nobz.

DAaddict wrote:A debate you need to sort out in your head is the value of big choppas versus choppa + slugga. i.e. Is +2 S at +5 cost really worth it versus +1 attack? Do a little mathhammer and sort it out 6 uge choppa nobs at 150 pts for 18 attacks versus 6 choppa nobs at 120 for 24 attacks. Frankly your killing power is probably going to come out of the PK nobz so 5 uge choppas = 1 more PK and then you can live with the wound allocation to the large number of choppa nobz.

I dont think too many people take 5 BCs though (I dont)...you take the BCs to allow the nobz to better engage vehicles and high toughness models...i consider it insurance to make sure that vehicle dies...and if you are taking combi weapons you have already sacrificed your slugga on those models so why shouldnt you take a BC?

None of my nobz ever keeps his slugga (excluding my PK nobz...the slugga is basically moot w them), well maybe one might, but out of 6 or 7 guys only one of them keeps his slugga (not counting those who have PKs)

Shake Zoola wrote:

DAaddict wrote:A debate you need to sort out in your head is the value of big choppas versus choppa + slugga. i.e. Is +2 S at +5 cost really worth it versus +1 attack? Do a little mathhammer and sort it out 6 uge choppa nobs at 150 pts for 18 attacks versus 6 choppa nobs at 120 for 24 attacks. Frankly your killing power is probably going to come out of the PK nobz so 5 uge choppas = 1 more PK and then you can live with the wound allocation to the large number of choppa nobz.

I dont think too many people take 5 BCs though (I dont)...you take the BCs to allow the nobz to better engage vehicles and high toughness models...i consider it insurance to make sure that vehicle dies...and if you are taking combi weapons you have already sacrificed your slugga on those models so why shouldnt you take a BC?

None of my nobz ever keeps his slugga (excluding my PK nobz...the slugga is basically moot w them), well maybe one might, but out of 6 or 7 guys only one of them keeps his slugga (not counting those who have PKs)

Exactly.

I understand now why dash does what he does - I don't use burna wagons. I absolutely would put ghaz with them over nobs, I just have none of them. I have nothing against them and think they are awesome, I just go a little different way. I think i will try them out in my build and see how it works.

BC are very good at what they do. They aren't there to kill more muhreens, they are there to finish vehicles and high toughness creatures off - power klaw assistors if you will.

Burna wagons are aweosme dude!!

But they can be very hit and miss...or they have been for me! Some games they will wipe out a unit a turn 4 turns in a row and some other games they get knocked out turn 1 and the burnas get wiped before I can get them another wagon...

Point is it gives my opponent a difficult choice to make:
Do I try to knock out the burna wagon?
Do I try to knock out the Nob wagon?
Do I knock out the scoring potentially back up wagon w da boyz in it?

Ok so option number 3 really may not be most people first choice...but when you have 2 really heavy hitters down that they know are going to be in their face in 2 turns you force them to make tough decisions...and should they fail in their attempt or make the wrong one, you have them in a real bad spot!!

EDIT: stupid spelling!

Shake Zoola wrote:Burna wagons are aweosme dude!!

But they can be very hit and miss...or they have been for me! Some games they will wipe out a unit a turn 4 turns in a row and some other games they get knocked out turn 1 and the burnas get wiped before I can get them another wagon...

Point is it gives my opponent a difficult choice to make:
Do I try to knock out the burna wagon?
Do I try to knock out the Nob wagon?
Do I knock out the scoring potentially back up wagon w da boyz in it?

Ok so option number 3 really may not be most people first choice...but when you have 2 really heavy hitters down that they know are going to be in their face in 2 turns you force them to make tough decisions...and should they fail in their attempt or make the wrong one, you have them in a real bad spot!!

EDIT: stupid spelling!

Kill the nobs, as they tend to be scoring. Warbosses & Ghazzy ya' know.

Yeah. Just an FYI. There is a guy in my community that used to run the assorted Nob list a lot. He would tend to allocate incorrectly and choose which one got wounded instead of declaring who he was rolling for. Me and another guy watched him play and we would point out that he was allocating incorrectly, forcing him to do it right, and he was getting very ticked off at us. Because of us he had to lose his painboy. Something that would not have happened if we weren't watching him.

So... yeah. Watch for that.

I also 2nd or 3rd or 12th the recommendation of the rokkits. I used to play a very similar build to Dash but with more trukks. Now I have switched to more a kan wall/horde type deal. But I mainly focus on spamming rokkits. Every boyz mob has them, I use rokkit buggies you name it they got it. Rokkits are friggin badass, they seem to handle almost anything on the table. And since every mob I run has rokkits + pks (mostly) they are all high threats to transports/MC/MEQs

Infact when I play against a Tyranid army, I actually take Tankbustas, and they perform awesomely. Not having any tanks to abuse my tankbustas is fantastic, and they can just lay down some rokkit fire.

You know, that's something I never thought of! Tankbustas would be absolute Murder against a Nid list!.

Careful with those tankbustas though. They *are* murder against nids, but nids don't need much help getting murdered, and tankbustas aren't so hot against other armies.

Dashofpepper wrote:My nob build - I prefer rokkits because of their ability to open tanks, and I take ammo runts (3 for the four kombi-rokkits expecting to get 1 hit and 3 rerolls). Kombi-skorchas are dangerous and could leave you out of assault - much prefer rokkits.

Nob Unit:
1. Bosspole
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Powerklaw
4. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
5. Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
6. Big Choppa
7. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
8. Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit / Ammo Runt
9. Ammo Runt
10. Painboy

Cybork bodies on everyone, and they have a 5++ invulnerable save with a 4+ Feel No Pain.

In terms of wound allocation, you determine wound grounds by wargear. Since each of these 10 models is equipped differently, you have 10 wound groups. So if you take 10 wounds, you assign them equally amongst your wound groups - one to each model, and roll your saves. You can theoretically fail 10 wounds and still not lose a single model.

Additionally, I would *never* recommend putting Ghazghkull Thraka with the nobs. In the same army absolutely, but never with the nobs. They have different strengths that complement each other in an army, but don't fit together. STR8+ weapons (say for example a unit of Thunderhammer/Stormshield terminators) can insta-kill nobs. You definitely don't want your nobs going after TH/SS terminators. Ghazghkull on the other hand has Eternal Warrior and a 2++....he'll play with those terminators all day long (or until they are dead or the Waaaugh! is over). On the flip side, Nobs are great for tearing through MEQs - which Ghazghkull is wasted against. Ghazghkull is a good way to take down Monstrous Creatures that bypass armour saves and feel no pain, nobs are not. Nobs are good for taking on Genestealer mobs because they can shrug off most of the wounds and allocate the rest to not lose any; Ghazghkull can only make so many 2++ saves.

If the enemy has volume of attacks, throw nobs at them.
If the enemy has quality attacks, throw Ghazghkull at them.

Would you add any thing more such as 'Eavy Armor or Putting the Nobz on Bikes?

The painboy pretty much acts as eavy armor for your entire unit...you get a 4+ FNP save. And a squad as big as the one dash made would just be stupidly expensive on bikes!

Dashofpepper wrote:Careful with those tankbustas though. They *are* murder against nids, but nids don't need much help getting murdered, and tankbustas aren't so hot against other armies.

Notice I said Nids. Any other post regarding Tankbustas and Ill tell people this "take em if you want, but even a first timer can figure out that the gloryhog rule is an EASY way to lure them everywhere but where you want"

Seriously, why would Phil Kelly make some awesome units in the codex, only to completely hoe them with stupid rules? Theres a couple units in the dex that are just cool as cool, but no one takes them because theres a rule or something small that just nerfs the hell out of them.


Anvildude - Yup, I like spamming rokkits, and obviously tankbustas are in my head ALOT, but they are almost always usless, unless I play them just for the sake of playin them. But against nids, there isnt a tank in sight. Its a guilty pleasure after that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shake Zoola wrote:The painboy pretty much acts as eavy armor for your entire unit...you get a 4+ FNP save. And a squad as big as the one dash made would just be stupidly expensive on bikes!

Agreed as well. Infact if you play around with them from game to game, youll find you NEVER need a maxed out nobs squad. Its just a HUGE waste of points and a serious over kill. You can pretty much get the same outcome with a squad of 5 or 6 as you can with 10, and that saves you a fair amount of points. And personally, unless Im playing a bike heavy build, I wouldnt take nob bikers. They take an already costly mob, and make it even more costly. Not to mention alot of armies can spam something similar to the missile launcher, and those ID nobs all day. Thats a huge point sink for something like SW to laugh at and murder in a couple turns.

KingCracker wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shake Zoola wrote:The painboy pretty much acts as eavy armor for your entire unit...you get a 4+ FNP save. And a squad as big as the one dash made would just be stupidly expensive on bikes!

Agreed as well. Infact if you play around with them from game to game, youll find you NEVER need a maxed out nobs squad. Its just a HUGE waste of points and a serious over kill. You can pretty much get the same outcome with a squad of 5 or 6 as you can with 10, and that saves you a fair amount of points. And personally, unless Im playing a bike heavy build, I wouldnt take nob bikers. They take an already costly mob, and make it even more costly. Not to mention alot of armies can spam something similar to the missile launcher, and those ID nobs all day. Thats a huge point sink for something like SW to laugh at and murder in a couple turns.

Hear Hear! my good man!

I never field more than 6 nobz to a unit any more! My first couple games I was fielding 10 but as I got more orks my lists needed to be trimmed down, by playing TONS of games with them I have come upon the following load out that works perfect for me!

1. PK/Waaagh!
2. PK/Pole
3. BC/Rokkit
4. BC/Rokkit/Runt
5. BC/runt
6. Painboy

Throw a warboss it with PK/squiggy/and optional rokkit and you gotz yourself a git bashin party!!

Yea mine usually top out at 6 as well. But I dont/wouldnt stick a warboss with the nobs. Thats too many points, as well as pretty much the core ass whopping of your army. If they are in a transport, they will be shot down, and then walking the rest of the way. Not good. If they are slogging, they WILL become priority #1.

Basically doing that your giving your opponent a VERY simple choice. Shoot that unit, its the scary one. But if you have the nobs over there, and your boss w/burna boyz or in a 20mob of boyz, well then, your opponent has to make a tougher choice, the nobs, who will kick my ass, or the Warboss in the Burnas/boyz blob, that will not only kick my ass, but (the boyz one anyways) will tie me up something fierce. Never make it too easy for the enemy. Besides we were just talking about over kill, and you stick a boss in their mob, making them just as over kill again

I see your point...I usually run my KFF mek with my burnas though as I like to give him a burna as well if I can afford it (which is rare).

Its funny I run my wagons almost identical to yours (Im assuming these are the wagons you typically run?)...Ill put my boss in w the nobz mainly so he gets FNP and can take str8 wounds if my nobz wagon gets knocked down...my opponents also have a nasty habit of hiding in cover when I get near by...extra PKs are always good when everyone you are assaulting with is striking last anyway! Sticking the boss in also lets me really deal with the multiple scary MCs my regular tyranid opponent likes to throw at me!

I use the KFF mek to make my burna wagon a jucier target and if they dont want to shoot that one thats fine with me as I am happy to BBQ them when I get close enough!

As for sticking him in w da boyz? I try to take 2x BS if can (again points can be an issue...i try to change a bit up every game) so I dont really have room in that wagon then!

Again I see your point good sir! I just like my boss riding with his drinking cronies!

I actually really dislike Kombi-weapons on my Nobz, for the sole reason that they rarely get to shoot. I tend to pull off turn 2 charges, with the 26-27" assault from Ghazghkull's Waaagh! I don't like having my Battlewagons driving around with cargo in them for more than 2 turns, as I don't trust their ability to survive shooting for that long. By turn 2, I've typically lost at least 1 Battlewagon.

This means that my Nobz are either doing one of two things, either Waaagh!-ing into assault, or slogging it towards their target. Either way, there's typically very little time for shooting. Anti-tank is the job of my Rokkit Buggies, Deffkoptas, and Lootas.

Instead, I use 'eavy armor.

It makes my Nobz much more survivable through the build of:

1. Klaw
2. Klaw/'eavy Armor
3. Klaw/'eavy Armor/Waaagh! Banner
4. Painboy
5. Big Choppa
6. Big Choppa/'eavy Armor
7. Big Choppa/Bosspole
8. Big Choppa/Bosspole/'eavy Armor
9. 'eavy Armor
10. Standard

This gives me 'eavy armor on 5 of my Nobz. I put melee non-power weapon wounds on them, and shooting non-AP4 on them. This has noticeably increased the survivability of my Nobz. I also like having 'eavy armor on some important models, namely, 'eavy armor on 2 of my 3 Klaws, as well as 'eavy armor on my Waaagh! Banner and on 1 of my bosspoles. Also, I run 2 bosspoles because I need something to diversify them, and the extra bosspole comes in handy once they start taking losses.

With this setup, I haven't lost all of my Nobz in forever. Not since the last time they got charged by the Sanguinor and a DC Dread with Blood Talons (/shudder).

When it comes down to it, there are few units this squad can't take. I'll always try to avoid getting them in combat with stuff like Assault Termies (of either variant), TWC, and Incubi, but they can take these units on if they need to, and will often come out on top.

Edit: Oh, and Nobz are the one unit I'll take Stikkbombz on. I4 on the charge means I'm striking at the same time as Marines, and before Thunder Hammers and Fists in cover, which definitely helps.

I don't have my Ork Codex in front of me here...but isn't 'Eavy Armor a "whole unit or none" upgrade for Nobs? Is it an individual wargear upgrade, or a "The unit may take 'Eavy Armor at the cost of 5 points per model?"

Additionally, to counterpoint shealyr on kombi-weapons, more often than not my Nob squad isn't firing before it gets into combat. I wouldn't want to fire my kombi-rokkits off at marines anyway. However, after that first combat, when they win and consolidate out, they usually have an opportunity to fire those rokkits at something. I remember a few poignant games against Daemons in particular where my nobs and burnas were staring down a Skulltaker and the Great Unclean One.

In this particular game, I wanted my burnas to go after Skulltaker because he was STR8 or STR9, and I wanted my nobs to go after the Great Unclean one because he couldn't insta-kill my nobs. However, doing the math in my head said that my burnas weren't going to be able to take down Skulltaker by themselves. Best alternative I could come up with was to drop 3 rokkits into him (caused two wounds), then multi-assault the nobs into both (only dropping one nob into Skulltaker), and the burnas all into Skulltaker. I ended up winning that combat by a *very* narrow margin, being stuck in with the Great Unclean one for a turn or two, but the surviving burnas walking free because I had already wounded Skulltaker and made their job easier.

There have also been times when a Deffrolla doesn't get the job done, so my nobs get out 1" away from the tank, then try shooting it down before assaulting the contents. Or assaulting the tank. One way or the other I'm gonna get it. This is especially true against skimmers. They dodge a ram on a 3+, so sometimes you just have to do it the hard way. Deffkoptas aren't going to do better than an entire nob unit in this case, and if we're talking about mechdar or Dark Eldar, there are probably more skimmer targets than your Lootas could shoot down in 2-3 turns if every unit exploded a skimmer every turn.

I hate having to assault my nobs into MCs, but if I do....they're going to take 4 attempted rokkits in the face first.

As for Stikkbombs....I've just never been able to justify the points. Even if nobs strike before the fists with their own choppas....chances are, those fists are going to take the least wound allocations possible to make sure they strike back - and probability is on the side of the powerfist living. I wouldn't stake any games on stikkbombs letting my nobs kill powerfists or thunderhammers before they get to attack back, and when you couple that with all the things that are better than I4 anyway, its just not worth it to me.

'eavy armor is "any mob may take any of the following" along with bosspole, waagh! banner and ammo runt.