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Ok a perfect example.. is the ork trucks. The new model is bigger. I have a older truck that has a 2nd trucks bed for a extended bed.

Anyway a buddy of mine bought a new truck and took some parts and put them on his older trucks kinda updating them.. they are the same length and width but not the same height. IS Hieght necessary to be the same model. I know line of site.. but still..

I'm pretty sure anything made with GW parts is legal.

There is no requirement in the rules to use the latest version of the model.

For that matter, there's only a rather vague requirement to use GW models at all.


So long as the model you are using accurately represents what it is supposed to be, you're usually in the clear. There are a very few examples where models have changed significantly enough that using the older model may cause issues (Guard heavy weapons, Eldar Avatars, Chaos Obliterators) but in most instances the changes aren't significant enough to make a huge difference.

For Orks especially, where conversions and scratch-builds are such a huge part of their profile, it's rarely a real problem.

Well I have been told and this may only be for tournament play. The converted model must be the same size or larger than the current gw model..

old trucks are not legal in tournament play..as template weapons are harder to hit the small trucks.

Anyway not sure I dont play in tournaments

There is no such rule in the 40K rulebook. Nor is there a single, set, 'tournament standard'... it would come down to the rules being used in the actual tournament you're wanting to enter... if you were actually doing so.

Whether or not a particular tournament chooses to not allow old models should have absolutely no effect on games outside that tournament.

As Insaniak said. Generally most tournaments just expect you to use GW models, or ones that look close. Most players and tournament organizers are open and sympathetic to players who have older models.

While it's theoretically possible that some tournament somewhere is requiring people to use the current model, it would be the first I've heard of one doing so in 11 years of tournament play. But if your local TO is doing so, that's his call. If you don't like it, I'd say have a friendly chat with him and see if he'll change his mind, and if he won't, and it's a big deal to you, vote with your feet. If you don't attend because he's excluding old models, he's got to think that over and decide if that's really what he wants.

All that being said, in the SPECIFIC case of Ork trukks, there is a BIG game advantage in using the little tiny old ones, and they also don't look nearly as nice as the new ones. This means that by using them, you a) are taking advantage and b) you are giving your opponent a less-enjoyable visual. Most Ork players I know who have the old Trukks have either a) converted them to be more the size of the new ones, or b) replaced them with new Trukks, and turned the old ones into gun buggies.

yea gun buggies.. flakka dakka trucks.. hhaha.. hmmm well thanks for the input gentlemen..

Mannahnin wrote:
All that being said, in the SPECIFIC case of Ork trukks, there is a BIG game advantage in using the little tiny old ones, and they also don't look nearly as nice as the new ones. This means that by using them, you a) are taking advantage and b) you are giving your opponent a less-enjoyable visual. Most Ork players I know who have the old Trukks have either a) converted them to be more the size of the new ones, or b) replaced them with new Trukks, and turned the old ones into gun buggies.

That is very much a matter of taste.

I hate the lame-ass tall-and-narrow look of the new Trukk.

So...

A. Please don't imply that people using the old Trukks are doing so in order to take advantage. It can equally well be a matter of availability and/or taste.

B. Please don't imply that I should, in any way, shape or form, worry about whether my opponent likes the look of my models.
A vocal part of this very community loves to hate on the Tau models. Should Tau players be concerned about them giving their opponents "a less-enjoyable visual"?

So you can add one more to the (apparent) minority of Ork players who are not overly impressed by the new Trukk.

A. I did not in any way intend to do so. Sorry if it seemed so to you. I think I've made reasonably clear in this thread and in the other recent thread discussing old Trukks that I know players who use them are usually just guys who have old models, rather than guys trying to gain an unfair advantage. That being said, whatever your reason for using the model, by using a tiny version of the unit you are gaining a substantial game advantage. Most Ork players I've known over the years have disliked the tiny Trukks and frequently converted them to be bigger and cooler.

B. This is a social game, and IME most gamers paint and creatively model their armies for the enjoyment of others, as well as themselves. You may personally not feel obliged to worry about the visual experience you are providing to your gaming partners, but others do. For example, I prefer never to field an unpainted model in a game with a stranger.

So... With that...

Tau Battlesuit/ Devilfish/ Hammerhead/ Skyray has fly stands of TWO heights. It affects both the LOS of the enemy models and the weapons of themselves. How about rules on that?

Funny thing that happened to me at an RTT. I was using new Trukks and a FW battlewagon. In one game I faced another Ork player who was using the new BW and old trukks. He dinged me on sportsmanship since I was able to block LOS to my trukks with my BW. Of course he saw nothing wrong with claiming his old trukks could get a cover save behind his footsloggers since they are so short.

ryanstartalker wrote:So... With that...

Tau Battlesuit/ Devilfish/ Hammerhead/ Skyray has fly stands of TWO heights. It affects both the LOS of the enemy models and the weapons of themselves. How about rules on that?

Use whichever you like, as the only requirement is that you use what the model's supplied with.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Funny thing that happened to me at an RTT. I was using new Trukks and a FW battlewagon. In one game I faced another Ork player who was using the new BW and old trukks. He dinged me on sportsmanship since I was able to block LOS to my trukks with my BW. Of course he saw nothing wrong with claiming his old trukks could get a cover save behind his footsloggers since they are so short.

Well, that is just lame.

if you have the GW produced model for something then it should be legal to play. Personally i have never seen a tournament that said you cant use an old model if you have it. personally i do have the old first edition eldar avatar, and 9 of the first obliterators, how about half a dozen of the original space marine dreads, and speeders.

in the case of the dark eldar i have i get a disadvantage because the footprint of my raiders is larger than the current model.

ok back on topic.so you dont have to convert the old models to similiar size of the current model . Even though it affects LOS and templates. Well this is confusing. Another example would be Space Marine Terminators as they no longer use the small base they use the larger base now. You may use the smaller Terminator Model but the base has to be the current size?

There are no rules that require you to do so.

Whether or not it's a good idea anyway really comes down to the people you play with and whether or not they think it's an issue that the model that you are using is smaller than the current one.

ryanstartalker wrote:So... With that...

Tau Battlesuit/ Devilfish/ Hammerhead/ Skyray has fly stands of TWO heights. It affects both the LOS of the enemy models and the weapons of themselves. How about rules on that?

The rule in the book says you have to glue the model to the base with which it was supplied before you use it in a game. It doesn't cover what pose, or what happens if there are three different bases, or if you can put the model on a base from another kit which is identical.

If you want to follow this to the letter, you can choose any base/stand that came with the model.

Personally, I modelled all my battlesuits standing on the ground. I replaced the thin, weak plastic flight stands of my Hammerheads with removable wire stands of various heights. These are not abuses of the spirit of the rules. I haven't made these replacement stands much taller or shorter than the ineffective plastic stands.

If I even take them to a tournament, I will check in advance if they will be OK. If they aren't, I will use a different army, or not go.

Some people take these rules too literally. If you arrange a game with someone and they turn up with variant models, it is your decision whether to play them or not.

If you refuse to play because the models have been given minor modifications that have no effect on game play, the other guy isn't suddenly going instantly to remodel his whole army to suit you, so you will just be missing out on a game.

If the other guy has modelled all his suits lying down for cover, you can still refuse to play, even though he has obeyed the letter of the rules,

Speaking as someone who uses old trukks (since I can't afford the newer ones although they are extended slightly) their size isn't always useful, you can't use them for screening as well and the lower placement of the gun means that it doesn't have such a wide view of targets. Some days their smaller size is useful sometimes it's not.

But yes, as everyone has said, there is no requirement to update old models, if it's a GW model is should be legal in most places.

I have an old trukk... but I use it as a buggy. My trukk is a converted Chimera.

KilKrazy: Thanks for the suggestions.

here is how to determine if a model is legal.


Question 1: is the producer of the model Citadel Miniatures?

Question 2: is the model the same as the unit it is representing?


if the answer to both is Yes then it is legal.

this rule can be found on the first page of the main rule book.


you are perfectly within your rights to use the older versions of a model, even if it gives you some sort of disadvantage/advantage, and their is no grounds which anyone can refuse to play you(well, they can, but their reason will be irrational)

TO's are able to not allow you to use older models because it's their tournament, hell, they could drop you for wearing purple socks, but you can also say they are being douche and walk out(or respectfully ask to use the models you payed good money for)

Only exceptions to the rule in most of the tournies i have played in (and won a couple) in the last couple of years is my deathwing army i use (and to an extent) prfer the older metal termin ators but i have had to rebase them on 40mm bases as is the new excepted base size fro terminators even though they come with the smaller infantry base this again has both pros and cons such as smaller deepstrike footprint so less chance of mishap but then the smaller footprint allows more models under a template were as my newer format 40mm bases look much better and make the metal termies i use really stand out and some people do not even know from the other side of the board they are the older models but agian thats just torniment play and ( GW rules fro there tornements) as well as my local tourny rules

BEST ADVISE FOR ANY ONE WITH ANY ARMY IS ALWAYS CHECK WITH THE TO BEFORE THE DAY TO AVOID PROBS AND POS DISAPOINTMENT IF THE TO SAYS YES NOBODY CAN ARGUE FOR THE DAY/WEEKEND HE IS GOD !!!

Technically you can use the old bases per the 5th edition rules, but a lot of players prefer to see people use the current ones, so I'm not totally surprised to hear of a local tournament requiring it.