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Ok, when a vehicle explodes, the models embarked upon it and within d6 inches of it take a certain number of S3/4 hits.

Can cover saves be taken? If so, how are they determined? Also if so, could one opt to GtG?

Apologize for what is probably a simple question. The thought just came to me, and I'm at work without any of my books.

Check the FAQ, it might be there. My gaming group plays that cover saves apply as like barrage weapons, but as far as I can tell there is nothing specifying in the book that those hits are a shooting attack. By RAW, probably not.

I normally allow cover saves, treating the vehicle as the firing model. TO disallow cover saves would be odd, given Doom of Malantai allows saves.

The rulebook says that the hits the unit receives are treated just like hits from shooting, and there is nothing in there that says cover saves couldn't be taken.
My only question is what cover save would be used?
When the vehicle explodes, it is replaced by an area of difficult ground or a crater which should give a 4+ save, but the hits against the passengers are resolved first, before they are placed on the table "The surviving passengers are placed...".
So since the hits are resolved and then the passengers are placed in the area of cover, what cover save would they get against the hits from the vehicle exploding?

For the users around: you get a cover save based on whatever cover is between them and the vehicle, as normal

For the occupants: no cover save is possible, as there is no cover between them and the vehicle. Every model is congruent with the vehicle hull

Venomthrope provides a cover save to all nids within a certain radius yes? I imagine cover saves from similar sources would apply.

True, area effects such as KFF would provide a cover save to the unit IN the vehicle.

The models outside the vehicle being hit may take cover if they are in cover or if there is intervening terrain to provide cover. The models inside the vehicle do not get cover, except for a few rare cases - for example, if an ork battlewagon gets exploded, and there is a Big Mek with a KFF inside, the boyz can take a 5+ cover save instead of a 6+ armour save - the cover save is provided by a special rule.

@Dash: Would you then think that those Boyz could go to ground to improve that cover save? I can't think of a reason why not, but was looking for other opinions.

Part of my curiosity came from some discussion about how Haywire Grenade Wyches always seem to get themselves blown up; I was thinking they might be able to at least GtG hoping to minimize casualties from the explosion if the situation warranted it.

Saldiven wrote:@Dash: Would you then think that those Boyz could go to ground to improve that cover save? I can't think of a reason why not, but was looking for other opinions.

Part of my curiosity came from some discussion about how Haywire Grenade Wyches always seem to get themselves blown up; I was thinking they might be able to at least GtG hoping to minimize casualties from the explosion if the situation warranted it.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to go to ground....boyz would then get a 4+ cover save. Not sure how it would help wyches though? They have a 6+ armour save, and going to ground out of an exploding vehicle would give them a 6+ cover save.

@Dash: Sorry for being unclear; I was operating under the assumption that there was nearby cover to make GtG worthwhile. For example, if you multi-assault a group of nearby vehicles, the hulls of the other vehicles might block LOS to enough wyches to grant a cover save.

I know it's not an ideal situation, but sometimes it might be worth it to try to save a Troops unit that might be in a position to contest an objective late game, for example.

I thought that the wounds were resolved and THEN the models were placed on the table...thus how can they GTG? The ground for them would be the floor of the tank, which is exploding on them.

I would argue, at least until GW clears it up, that models inside a vehicle do not benefit from cover saves, as they are INSIDE the vehicle blowing up. Yes, everyone can argue RAW that nothing seems to prevent cover saves from being taken...but that's a misstep on GW's part, and not RAI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus, you can't shoot at models when they are embarked...thus if they can't be shot at they can't possibly take saves.

Because you can GtG against any wound you suffer, with no exceptions.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because you can GtG against any wound you suffer, with no exceptions.

Just shooting wounds...right? You don't get a cover save against CC.

Saldiven wrote:@Dash: Sorry for being unclear; I was operating under the assumption that there was nearby cover to make GtG worthwhile. For example, if you multi-assault a group of nearby vehicles, the hulls of the other vehicles might block LOS to enough wyches to grant a cover save.

I know it's not an ideal situation, but sometimes it might be worth it to try to save a Troops unit that might be in a position to contest an objective late game, for example.

I understand now.

I do this all the time where possible - using my own or enemy vehicles to grant myself a cover save. In terms of whether you can go to ground WHILE assaulting something that doesn't have a weapon skill, thereby leaving you unengaged with them - no idea.

Correct you never get Cover saves vs CC wounds.

As for your addendum to your previous post the models inside the transport still get their armor saves, and any cover saves generated via special rules/wargear. You are correct that they would not get the cover save for being inside a wreck/crater, since they are not inside a wreck/crater while the vehicle is exploding; but wargear/special rules can/will be taken(and stealth/other special rules that boost cover saves will also apply, such as going to ground).

nosferatu1001 wrote:For the users around: you get a cover save based on whatever cover is between them and the vehicle, as normal

For the occupants: no cover save is possible, as there is no cover between them and the vehicle. Every model is congruent with the vehicle hull

This. Except that occupants could still get one from special rules/wargear currently in play, as others have noted.