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Me and ChrisCP were having a bit of a discussion on squad sizes in another thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/346277.page toward the bottom of the page for reference.


I have checked around various places and many people have agreed that in a squad of Kommandos, which has a maximum unit of 15, you can take 15 kommandos, plus Snikrot (making a squad of 16). I believe the logic behind this is Snikrot is not a Kommando himself, therefore he goes with the unit of 15 Kommandos not as an upgrade, but as "instead of a nob." Though it does say that a Kommando may be upgraded to a Nob, I still contend that in a unit of 15 Kommandos, say you were to take a Nob instead of Snikrot, you can still legally take 15 Kommandos + a nob (as a nob is not a kommando, nor is he a boy). Which also brings me to the next question which I believe works in the same exact way:

A unit of boyz cannot exceed 30. You can upgrade a boy to a nob, and still have 30 boyz + a nob (because again, a nob isn't a boy, right?)

Can someone clarify this rule for me? It has got me thinking and I want to be sure I understand the rule correctly (I'm a fairly new player).

The INAT FAQ agrees with me as well, though as ChrisCP pointed out, it's not actual rules... ((Then what is it? What is the point of the INAT if it doesn't really contribute a clarification at the very least?))

Regarding the Nob questions:

Models in those units are "upgraded" to Nobs. You have to take the Boy/Kommando/Stormboy first, and then upgrade him. If you take 30 Boyz + a Nob, then you've taken 31 Boyz (one of whom was upgraded), which is not allowed. As further proof, the cost of the Nob is an addition to the cost of the regular trooper that had been taken.

As for Snikrot (and Zagstruk and Badrukk), you aren't upgrading any existing model. Those characters are bought in addition to the squad, so you could take a max squad, and THEN add the character.

dude has it exactly right.

The Inat is a set of guidelines that some venues, people and tournaments choose to use.

You should note that Inat tends towards how-people-play-it, rather than hard RAW (which may or may not be what you're looking for). It also has quite a lot of rule changes, not all of them marked as such.

If you're not playing somewhere that uses the Inat then you can't produce it as "proof" but it can offer some perspective sometimes.

You should note that it is not considered official rules for the purposes of this forum. (just the official books and FAQ/Errata)

That would be completely illegal, as far as the nobs go. As stated, you buy a boyz, and THEN you upgrade that boy into a nob. Nobs dont cost 10pts in a mob, they actually cost 16pts. Not only that, but the unit size says right in the codex, that it caps at 30. So taking 31 is illegal.


Id also say thats illegal in a Kommando mob as well. It says
"Instead of a nob, the mob may be lead by Snikrot"
Now my taking of this, as mentioned above, you pay for your Kommandos, and then upgrade one as a nob, like usual. So youve properly paid for the nob. Now instead of a nob, you can take Snikrot. So I see that as, instead of paying to upgrade a boy to a nob again, you skip the whole thing and just take Snikrot for his points cost. Argue that all you want, as long as you dont pull that on my table, I dont care. But in my eyes, thats just trying to be clever and cheat.

No, instead of being allowed to upgrade a Kommando to a Nob, you get to take Snikrot instead. You dont Upgrade anyone to Snikrot, he is an addon and is not a "Kommando"

So you take 15 Kommandos (which is fine) and Snikrot - which does not breach the unit guidelines

Which we already did to death in the other thread....

Yep, but putting the other side across - and without calling anyone a cheater as well..

KingCracker wrote:Id also say thats illegal in a Kommando mob as well. It says
"Instead of a nob, the mob may be lead by Snikrot"
Now my taking of this, as mentioned above, you pay for your Kommandos, and then upgrade one as a nob, like usual. So youve properly paid for the nob. Now instead of a nob, you can take Snikrot. So I see that as, instead of paying to upgrade a boy to a nob again, you skip the whole thing and just take Snikrot for his points cost. Argue that all you want, as long as you dont pull that on my table, I dont care. But in my eyes, thats just trying to be clever and cheat.

I disagree, and I'll note that indirectly calling people cheaters is against the guidelines for YMDC.

You never upgrade a boy to be Snikrot. You pay his flat cost instead of upgrading a boy to a Nob. The way the costs and the options are given is distinctly different from one another.

I didnt mean you upgrade a boy to be Snikrot. I just didnt word it that well

KingCracker wrote:That would be completely illegal, as far as the nobs go. As stated, you buy a boyz, and THEN you upgrade that boy into a nob. Nobs dont cost 10pts in a mob, they actually cost 16pts. Not only that, but the unit size says right in the codex, that it caps at 30. So taking 31 is illegal.


Id also say thats illegal in a Kommando mob as well. It says
"Instead of a nob, the mob may be lead by Snikrot"
Now my taking of this, as mentioned above, you pay for your Kommandos, and then upgrade one as a nob, like usual. So youve properly paid for the nob. Now instead of a nob, you can take Snikrot. So I see that as, instead of paying to upgrade a boy to a nob again, you skip the whole thing and just take Snikrot for his points cost. Argue that all you want, as long as you dont pull that on my table, I dont care. But in my eyes, thats just trying to be clever and cheat.

I had a suspicion I was wrong about the boyz mob, I'm glad that was cleared up and that makes total sense to me now.

The Snikrot thing was a bit more complicated to me, and initially I thought the same thing - that I could only take 14 Kommandos + Snikrot. After asking here and a bunch of people I played with, I found that you can in fact take 15 Kommandos + Snikrot.

I wouldn't try to be "clever and cheat" especially since I'm on these boards trying to find out if I'm wrong about a rule. Cheaters don't usually seek out clarification, especially the clever ones


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Id also say thats illegal in a Kommando mob as well. It says
"Instead of a nob, the mob may be lead by Snikrot"
Now my taking of this, as mentioned above, you pay for your Kommandos, and then upgrade one as a nob, like usual. So youve properly paid for the nob. Now instead of a nob, you can take Snikrot. So I see that as, instead of paying to upgrade a boy to a nob again, you skip the whole thing and just take Snikrot for his points cost. Argue that all you want, as long as you dont pull that on my table, I dont care. But in my eyes, thats just trying to be clever and cheat.

I disagree, and I'll note that indirectly calling people cheaters is against the guidelines for YMDC.

You never upgrade a boy to be Snikrot. You pay his flat cost instead of upgrading a boy to a Nob. The way the costs and the options are given is distinctly different from one another.

So here's where I get confused...by that logic then, shouldn't taking a nob upgrade work the same way? Yes, you are paying for a boy initially, then upgrading it. But it says "instead of" a nob in the 'dex, so that means you have to have paid for a boy, but since a boy =/= Snikrot, the boy remains instead of being removed for the nob? Is that how it works?

No. Read the phrasing again, it's really pretty clear.

You have the option of upgrading a boy to a nob for x additional points. Since this is an upgrade, clearly the old model is lost.

INSTEAD of doing the above, you have the option of ADDING Snikrot to the squad, at x number of points. Since he is added to the unit, not upgraded from an existing model, no model is lost.

If the wording is "upgrade" that model is counted in the unit max. If the wording is "may take" or "may be joined by" then it is in addition to the unit max.

Homer