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This is going to be a brief report since I am tired, and there honestly is not much to say.

I took the following list:

Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench
Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench

Troops
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 melta guns, rhino
5 CSM, plasma gun,

Elites
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA

Heavy Support
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon


For reasons I do not fully understand, the tournament stated about 90 mins late, and was extremely crowded. In my opinion, the To tried to hold too large a tournament for the given space.



First round was BOLS style kill points, pitched battle deployment. How this works is it is a kill points game, but in addition, you add 1 kill point to your total score for every kill point you have left alive at the end of the game.

First round I played a very nice guy named Justin. he had a very shooty mech Space wolves list with triple Ml long fangs, lots of razorbacks, 2 rhinos, and 3 MM HF land speeders. He had 20 kills points in his list.

he won the roll to go first and set up first.

I reacted to his deployment, and deployed my force in such a way that 1 squad of long fangs could not see me, and I was mainly hidden from the other 2.

Turn 1: Justin was overly aggressive and charged toward me. He then proceed to do absolutely nothing in shooting. It was silly.

My turn 1: I move up rhinos, pop smoke, shoot some stuff. Assault a speeder with 2 princes. Nothing huge.

His turn 2: His shooting totally whiffs again. It was kind of scary.

My turn 2: I kill everything I shoot, and everything I assault.

Rest of the game: I destroy everything I touch, and take minimal casualties. I dominated the table.
Game ended turn 5.

End result: Here is the funny part. We tally up points, and I am way ahead on Kill points, but, since he had so many units to begin with, he still has a lot of units on the board, so we draw. However, he gets a bonus point for still having an HQ alive, and final score is 11 Justin, 10 me.

We talked after the game and thought this is pretty silly. We both acknowledged that his rolls were abdominal and mine were insane, but that because of the mission and his kill point spamming list, we drew. Justin, if you are reading, I am not complaining, I am just explaining how the game went.

Game 2: I fought a daemon player named Ian. I think. I am very tired. Mission was to control the center, control objectives in deployment zones, and table quarters. He had:

herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
Blood thirster
6 fiends, unholy might
6 fiends, unholy might
4 unique blood crushers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze

This was a very close game and while the details are quite intense, I managed to get a massacre and win 21 of 22 points at the end of the game. My opponent made several key mistakes involving deep strike placement, and by keeping all of my walkers and rhinos in a tight circle, I was able to pick his list apart and fight my way onto all three objectives.

A big problem with this game was that the TO shortened the rounds without telling anyone, and then when time was up, did not call time, so people kept playing, and it was very, very confusing.



Going into game 3 I was tied for 3rd. I was very tired at this point. The tournament was way behind schedule and was not well run. Multiple people became so frustrated that they withdrew from the tournament and simply went home. One of my friends actually told me that this tournament actually took away his desire to play 40k competitively. If I was not tied for third at the time, I might have left as well.


Game 3 was simple victory points. you had to win by an 800 Vp margin to get full points.

I played a Space wolf player named Rob. I think. or maybe it was Ian. I am not sure, I am tired. Anyway, whoever you were, this is my report of our game.

His list was something like this:
Njal
Ragnar
4 wolf guard with various weapons dedicated LR crusader
2 units of wolf scouts
2 TL las cannon razorbacks with grey hunters
10 grey hunters
3 vindicators with siege shield.

This list did not scare me. He lacked the guns to kill my DPs and walkers, and Ragnar and friends can't kill 6 walkers in assault.



I could break it down by turn, but I think a summary might be better. Both of us had horrible shooting. His vindicators, and my defilers could not hurt anything. It was kind of funny. You would think 10 battle cannons would kill something. On the bright side, he literally could not deal with my DPs and they got in his face and kills vindicators.
Njal however, became a huge problem, and used some crazy psychic power to make the everything within 24' difficult and dangerous terrain.

Well, this was bad, because it made a rhino immobilize itself in open ground, and a DP go second against 5 grey hunter who did NOT get counter attack, but managed to punch out a DP who had 2 wounds left with 9 attacks. good job DP. We had lots of rules arguments, but I did not argue. I simply calmly stated that we should call a judge or look it up. We did, and I was right. My opponent late thanked me for being calm about these disputes.

The real shenanigans happened on turn 4. I had positioned my walkers such that I was ready to go punch out his LR full of super dudes. I was winning at thins points, or at least, it was looking good. However, he rolled some power for Njal that inflicts D6 S8 HITS on every unengaged model withing 12 inches. So, in one insane swoop, he moved withing 12 of my walkers and proceeded to wreck, immobilize, and weapon drestroy every one. In one turn, with Njal hiding in a Lr he destroyed my army. Whats funny, is that he rolled this power again the next turn, and olbiterated the remaining injured walkers, and rolled it again the next turn and simply annihilated me. Njar, with this crazy super power was able to do more damage to me than entire mech IG armies have done in 6 turns. I found this funny, and rather Silly. My opponent agreed. I conceded the game. There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends, but they did not really matter. Njal beat my whole army in 1 turn. This was rather frustrating.

I went back after the tournament feeling rather down about this magical loss. I looked it up, and saw that Njal needs Line of sight for this power to work. Since Njal was in a Land Radier the whole game, and a Land raider has no fire points, then Njal never had line of sight to any of my army. Thus, it seems in my mind that the brain lightning from the sky Njal shot at my whole army should not actually have happened. Does anyone know about this? It is something I would very much like an answer on.


Overall, I am sorry to say that this tournament was a huge let down, and was honestly the most poory organized event I have ever gone to. Iit was not that I lost or anything, that's fine, but the event was simply not well done, nothing was on time, and the TO was trying to rush us out because he had also scheduled a Yugioh tournament for the same night at 8:00PM, which was before the final round had even ended.

I am sorry to say that I went to this tournament expecting a fun day of rolling dice, but only really met with frustration at every turn. I do no plan to attend any more events hosted by Game theory, and sadly cannot recommend them to anyone else. I hope that if the Meatgrinder TO reads this, then he sees it as an honest critique, and an effort to improve future events.

Hey Extrenm(54)

Thnx for the report. Im impressed with your list. Did you consider dropping the plasma CSM and the 2 PFs from the champion and taking a Greater Daemon for the points in stead?

Too bad the tournament didn't deliver. The missions do indeed impress as strange and imbalanced. I hope you did at least play some nice games with cool opponents. It seems that way, but if I understand correctly then even the fun from that was reduced by the timeframe and TO-harrasment.

Im interested in the details from the game against the Daemons. He plays a tight list and even though you bring a list with 5 Walkers, his list could just be good enough to have a decent chance.

Cheers, Cilithan

Heya
Nice battle rep even though it really sucks you had a bad time. The tournament really sounds unoranized.
I'm actually suprised by Njal's psychic power... Did you ask to see this in the codex when it happend? I ain't no pro on the space wolves codex but this sounds made up :S There's the power living lightning which inflicts d6 S7 wounds on an enemy and the power thunder clap (i think) which hits units in 12' with a couple of S3 hits iirc, but d6 S8 to all units in 12" on turn one? I know Njal has some powers which grow over the game, maybe it's one of them, but I say it again, D6 S8 hits to everything in 12" sounds kinda crazy

lg
FFE

Good report, and its always the worst when the tourney isn't run well. It makes a rough day for everyone there thats a real bummer man.

Looking at the SW codex Njal has a power usable on a +7 rolls (he gets a d3 + round to figure out that number so he couldnt have done it at least untill round 4) that hits all units within 12 with d6 s8 ap5 hits. But he does need line of site, so he couldnt shoot it from inside the LR. Sounds like the guy made a mistake.

Dont let one bad tourny turn you off of them though.

Sorry to read that the tourney was not a good experience. However, I'm relieved as I sent in a request to withdraw from it this past week as I've been neck deep with work.

It appears your last opponent made a huge, huge mistake. But I think that's a common problem....unfamiliarity with other codices. There are many players not completely familiar with their own codices or who misintepret their own rules. Unfortunately, there is no way around it but to get familiar with their rules and challenge them when they make these claims. And if something sounds too good to be true, ask to see the rules for yourself.

jy2 wrote:It appears your last opponent made a huge, huge mistake. But I think that's a common problem....unfamiliarity with other codices. There are many players not completely familiar with their own codices or who misintepret their own rules. Unfortunately, there is no way around it but to get familiar with their rules and challenge them when they make these claims. And if something sounds too good to be true, ask to see the rules for yourself.

I should have noticed that it was too good to be true. He also told me that tempests wrath affects ALL models within 24, not just jump infantry, jet bikes skimmers, and deep striking units. But again, this was my fault for not catching him. It is still frustrating that The guy that beat me placed very well, in fact, I think he won, however, he did it illegally.

If the guy won overall, that would be really disappointing as first place won a fully painted demon army.

I try not to think about it...

But, be that as it may, whats done is done, and I do not think it was intentional. My opponent was a nice guy, I just wish we had not had this little rules mis-understanding.

That first mission sounded screwed up.

Oh well better luck next time. Too bad about Njal ruining your day. Best just to forget about it.

extrenm(54) wrote:This is going to be a brief report since I am tired, and there honestly is not much to say.

I took the following list:

Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench
Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench

Troops
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 melta guns, rhino
5 CSM, plasma gun,

Elites
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA

Heavy Support
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon


For reasons I do not fully understand, the tournament stated about 90 mins late, and was extremely crowded. In my opinion, the To tried to hold too large a tournament for the given space.



First round was BOLS style kill points, pitched battle deployment. How this works is it is a kill points game, but in addition, you add 1 kill point to your total score for every kill point you have left alive at the end of the game.

First round I played a very nice guy named Justin. he had a very shooty mech Space wolves list with triple Ml long fangs, lots of razorbacks, 2 rhinos, and 3 MM HF land speeders. He had 20 kills points in his list.

he won the roll to go first and set up first.

I reacted to his deployment, and deployed my force in such a way that 1 squad of long fangs could not see me, and I was mainly hidden from the other 2.

Turn 1: Justin was overly aggressive and charged toward me. He then proceed to do absolutely nothing in shooting. It was silly.

My turn 1: I move up rhinos, pop smoke, shoot some stuff. Assault a speeder with 2 princes. Nothing huge.

His turn 2: His shooting totally whiffs again. It was kind of scary.

My turn 2: I kill everything I shoot, and everything I assault.

Rest of the game: I destroy everything I touch, and take minimal casualties. I dominated the table.
Game ended turn 5.

End result: Here is the funny part. We tally up points, and I am way ahead on Kill points, but, since he had so many units to begin with, he still has a lot of units on the board, so we draw. However, he gets a bonus point for still having an HQ alive, and final score is 11 Justin, 10 me.

We talked after the game and thought this is pretty silly. We both acknowledged that his rolls were abdominal and mine were insane, but that because of the mission and his kill point spamming list, we drew. Justin, if you are reading, I am not complaining, I am just explaining how the game went.

Game 2: I fought a daemon player named Ian. I think. I am very tired. Mission was to control the center, control objectives in deployment zones, and table quarters. He had:

herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
Blood thirster
6 fiends, unholy might
6 fiends, unholy might
4 unique blood crushers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze

This was a very close game and while the details are quite intense, I managed to get a massacre and win 21 of 22 points at the end of the game. My opponent made several key mistakes involving deep strike placement, and by keeping all of my walkers and rhinos in a tight circle, I was able to pick his list apart and fight my way onto all three objectives.

A big problem with this game was that the TO shortened the rounds without telling anyone, and then when time was up, did not call time, so people kept playing, and it was very, very confusing.



Going into game 3 I was tied for 3rd. I was very tired at this point. The tournament was way behind schedule and was not well run. Multiple people became so frustrated that they withdrew from the tournament and simply went home. One of my friends actually told me that this tournament actually took away his desire to play 40k competitively. If I was not tied for third at the time, I might have left as well.


Game 3 was simple victory points. you had to win by an 800 Vp margin to get full points.

I played a Space wolf player named Rob. I think. or maybe it was Ian. I am not sure, I am tired. Anyway, whoever you were, this is my report of our game.

His list was something like this:
Njal
Ragnar
4 wolf guard with various weapons dedicated LR crusader
2 units of wolf scouts
2 TL las cannon razorbacks with grey hunters
10 grey hunters
3 vindicators with siege shield.

This list did not scare me. He lacked the guns to kill my DPs and walkers, and Ragnar and friends can't kill 6 walkers in assault.



I could break it down by turn, but I think a summary might be better. Both of us had horrible shooting. His vindicators, and my defilers could not hurt anything. It was kind of funny. You would think 10 battle cannons would kill something. On the bright side, he literally could not deal with my DPs and they got in his face and kills vindicators.
Njal however, became a huge problem, and used some crazy psychic power to make the everything within 24' difficult and dangerous terrain.

Well, this was bad, because it made a rhino immobilize itself in open ground, and a DP go second against 5 grey hunter who did NOT get counter attack, but managed to punch out a DP who had 2 wounds left with 9 attacks. good job DP. We had lots of rules arguments, but I did not argue. I simply calmly stated that we should call a judge or look it up. We did, and I was right. My opponent late thanked me for being calm about these disputes.

The real shenanigans happened on turn 4. I had positioned my walkers such that I was ready to go punch out his LR full of super dudes. I was winning at thins points, or at least, it was looking good. However, he rolled some power for Njal that inflicts D6 S8 HITS on every unengaged model withing 12 inches. So, in one insane swoop, he moved withing 12 of my walkers and proceeded to wreck, immobilize, and weapon drestroy every one. In one turn, with Njal hiding in a Lr he destroyed my army. Whats funny, is that he rolled this power again the next turn, and olbiterated the remaining injured walkers, and rolled it again the next turn and simply annihilated me. Njar, with this crazy super power was able to do more damage to me than entire mech IG armies have done in 6 turns. I found this funny, and rather Silly. My opponent agreed. I conceded the game. There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends, but they did not really matter. Njal beat my whole army in 1 turn. This was rather frustrating.

I went back after the tournament feeling rather down about this magical loss. I looked it up, and saw that Njal needs Line of sight for this power to work. Since Njal was in a Land Radier the whole game, and a Land raider has no fire points, then Njal never had line of sight to any of my army. Thus, it seems in my mind that the brain lightning from the sky Njal shot at my whole army should not actually have happened. Does anyone know about this? It is something I would very much like an answer on.


Overall, I am sorry to say that this tournament was a huge let down, and was honestly the most poory organized event I have ever gone to. Iit was not that I lost or anything, that's fine, but the event was simply not well done, nothing was on time, and the TO was trying to rush us out because he had also scheduled a Yugioh tournament for the same night at 8:00PM, which was before the final round had even ended.

I am sorry to say that I went to this tournament expecting a fun day of rolling dice, but only really met with frustration at every turn. I do no plan to attend any more events hosted by Game theory, and sadly cannot recommend them to anyone else. I hope that if the Meatgrinder TO reads this, then he sees it as an honest critique, and an effort to improve future events.

Im the space wolf guy he played and for the record.. njal's world effect power isnt a psychic shooting attack period
and yes i can be inside any vehicle in my list for it to work if i actually rolled a psychic test to shoot you then you would have a point

and its the number 7 skill lord of tempests world effects

if your going to accuse someone of cheating Horton maybe you should actually know what your talking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nicorex wrote:Looking at the SW codex Njal has a power usable on a +7 rolls (he gets a d3 + round to figure out that number so he couldnt have done it at least untill round 4) that hits all units within 12 with d6 s8 ap5 hits. But he does need line of site, so he couldnt shoot it from inside the LR. Sounds like the guy made a mistake.

Dont let one bad tourny turn you off of them though.

no he does not need line of site, hes not doing the shooting its a storm effect hes not shooting anything its auto hits period and it didnt happen till turn 4 then turn 5 and turn 6


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The real shenanigans happened on turn 4. I had positioned my walkers such that I was ready to go punch out his LR full of super dudes. I was winning at thins points, or at least, it was looking good. However, he rolled some power for Njal that inflicts D6 S8 HITS on every unengaged model withing 12 inches. So, in one insane swoop, he moved withing 12 of my walkers and proceeded to wreck, immobilize, and weapon drestroy every one. In one turn, with Njal hiding in a Lr he destroyed my army. Whats funny, is that he rolled this power again the next turn, and olbiterated the remaining injured walkers, and rolled it again the next turn and simply annihilated me. Njar, with this crazy super power was able to do more damage to me than entire mech IG armies have done in 6 turns. I found this funny, and rather Silly. My opponent agreed. I conceded the game. There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends, but they did not really matter. Njal beat my whole army in 1 turn. This was rather frustrating.

and id really like to know what shennanigans you thought occurred during your multi charge it was worked out exactly as it was intended are you about to try and tell everyone here on this board that the second squad you assaulted with didnt get any hits on ragnar as they werent in base to base with him ever?

and yes that is exactly how the tempest storm works

and i use the quote from the sw faq on another world effect power

Q. Is a vehicle hit by a Vengeful Tornado result literally hit
on its side armour, and therefore does it get the Obscured
cover save if Njal cannot see one of its sides? (p53)
A. No – Vengeful Tornado is not a shooting attack and
therefore allows no cover save. Essentially the tornado
strikes from directly directly above; the side armour is used to
represent this.

the number 7 power is not a psychic shooting attack no cover saves not line of site needed, and since the faq did not address this i even gave you front armor as it didnt say side armor i wouldnt get side

i really hate sunday morning quarterbacks if you had any question when this happened you had every right to call gordy in to verify what i was doing. i have every confidence in what happened on turns 4-6 and as i was going second i intentionally moved him up into position for max effect i took a gamble and it worked

the event is no where near as bad as this guy said it was did it have some issues yeah sure but 29 people showed up you can expect a few issues to arise

and no i didnt win overall i placed second

Rle68 wrote:

extrenm(54) wrote:This is going to be a brief report since I am tired, and there honestly is not much to say.

I took the following list:

Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench
Daemon Prince, Wings, Mark of Tzeench

Troops
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Berzerkers, Champ, PF, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 melta guns, rhino
5 CSM, plasma gun,

Elites
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA
Dreadnought, Missile Launcher, EA

Heavy Support
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon
Defiler, TL-Reaper Auto Cannon


For reasons I do not fully understand, the tournament stated about 90 mins late, and was extremely crowded. In my opinion, the To tried to hold too large a tournament for the given space.



First round was BOLS style kill points, pitched battle deployment. How this works is it is a kill points game, but in addition, you add 1 kill point to your total score for every kill point you have left alive at the end of the game.

First round I played a very nice guy named Justin. he had a very shooty mech Space wolves list with triple Ml long fangs, lots of razorbacks, 2 rhinos, and 3 MM HF land speeders. He had 20 kills points in his list.

he won the roll to go first and set up first.

I reacted to his deployment, and deployed my force in such a way that 1 squad of long fangs could not see me, and I was mainly hidden from the other 2.

Turn 1: Justin was overly aggressive and charged toward me. He then proceed to do absolutely nothing in shooting. It was silly.

My turn 1: I move up rhinos, pop smoke, shoot some stuff. Assault a speeder with 2 princes. Nothing huge.

His turn 2: His shooting totally whiffs again. It was kind of scary.

My turn 2: I kill everything I shoot, and everything I assault.

Rest of the game: I destroy everything I touch, and take minimal casualties. I dominated the table.
Game ended turn 5.

End result: Here is the funny part. We tally up points, and I am way ahead on Kill points, but, since he had so many units to begin with, he still has a lot of units on the board, so we draw. However, he gets a bonus point for still having an HQ alive, and final score is 11 Justin, 10 me.

We talked after the game and thought this is pretty silly. We both acknowledged that his rolls were abdominal and mine were insane, but that because of the mission and his kill point spamming list, we drew. Justin, if you are reading, I am not complaining, I am just explaining how the game went.

Game 2: I fought a daemon player named Ian. I think. I am very tired. Mission was to control the center, control objectives in deployment zones, and table quarters. He had:

herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
herald of tzeench, chariot, bolt, gaze
Blood thirster
6 fiends, unholy might
6 fiends, unholy might
4 unique blood crushers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
5 plague bearers
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze
Daemon prince, Mark of tzeench, bolt, gaze

This was a very close game and while the details are quite intense, I managed to get a massacre and win 21 of 22 points at the end of the game. My opponent made several key mistakes involving deep strike placement, and by keeping all of my walkers and rhinos in a tight circle, I was able to pick his list apart and fight my way onto all three objectives.

A big problem with this game was that the TO shortened the rounds without telling anyone, and then when time was up, did not call time, so people kept playing, and it was very, very confusing.



Going into game 3 I was tied for 3rd. I was very tired at this point. The tournament was way behind schedule and was not well run. Multiple people became so frustrated that they withdrew from the tournament and simply went home. One of my friends actually told me that this tournament actually took away his desire to play 40k competitively. If I was not tied for third at the time, I might have left as well.


Game 3 was simple victory points. you had to win by an 800 Vp margin to get full points.

I played a Space wolf player named Rob. I think. or maybe it was Ian. I am not sure, I am tired. Anyway, whoever you were, this is my report of our game.

His list was something like this:
Njal
Ragnar
4 wolf guard with various weapons dedicated LR crusader
2 units of wolf scouts
2 TL las cannon razorbacks with grey hunters
10 grey hunters
3 vindicators with siege shield.

This list did not scare me. He lacked the guns to kill my DPs and walkers, and Ragnar and friends can't kill 6 walkers in assault.



I could break it down by turn, but I think a summary might be better. Both of us had horrible shooting. His vindicators, and my defilers could not hurt anything. It was kind of funny. You would think 10 battle cannons would kill something. On the bright side, he literally could not deal with my DPs and they got in his face and kills vindicators.
Njal however, became a huge problem, and used some crazy psychic power to make the everything within 24' difficult and dangerous terrain.

Well, this was bad, because it made a rhino immobilize itself in open ground, and a DP go second against 5 grey hunter who did NOT get counter attack, but managed to punch out a DP who had 2 wounds left with 9 attacks. good job DP. We had lots of rules arguments, but I did not argue. I simply calmly stated that we should call a judge or look it up. We did, and I was right. My opponent late thanked me for being calm about these disputes.

The real shenanigans happened on turn 4. I had positioned my walkers such that I was ready to go punch out his LR full of super dudes. I was winning at thins points, or at least, it was looking good. However, he rolled some power for Njal that inflicts D6 S8 HITS on every unengaged model withing 12 inches. So, in one insane swoop, he moved withing 12 of my walkers and proceeded to wreck, immobilize, and weapon drestroy every one. In one turn, with Njal hiding in a Lr he destroyed my army. Whats funny, is that he rolled this power again the next turn, and olbiterated the remaining injured walkers, and rolled it again the next turn and simply annihilated me. Njar, with this crazy super power was able to do more damage to me than entire mech IG armies have done in 6 turns. I found this funny, and rather Silly. My opponent agreed. I conceded the game. There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends, but they did not really matter. Njal beat my whole army in 1 turn. This was rather frustrating.

I went back after the tournament feeling rather down about this magical loss. I looked it up, and saw that Njal needs Line of sight for this power to work. Since Njal was in a Land Radier the whole game, and a Land raider has no fire points, then Njal never had line of sight to any of my army. Thus, it seems in my mind that the brain lightning from the sky Njal shot at my whole army should not actually have happened. Does anyone know about this? It is something I would very much like an answer on.


Overall, I am sorry to say that this tournament was a huge let down, and was honestly the most poory organized event I have ever gone to. Iit was not that I lost or anything, that's fine, but the event was simply not well done, nothing was on time, and the TO was trying to rush us out because he had also scheduled a Yugioh tournament for the same night at 8:00PM, which was before the final round had even ended.

I am sorry to say that I went to this tournament expecting a fun day of rolling dice, but only really met with frustration at every turn. I do no plan to attend any more events hosted by Game theory, and sadly cannot recommend them to anyone else. I hope that if the Meatgrinder TO reads this, then he sees it as an honest critique, and an effort to improve future events.

Im the space wolf guy he played and for the record.. njal's world effect power isnt a psychic shooting attack period
and yes i can be inside any vehicle in my list for it to work if i actually rolled a psychic test to shoot you then you would have a point

and its the number 7 skill lord of tempests world effects

if your going to accuse someone of cheating Horton maybe you should actually know what your talking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nicorex wrote:Looking at the SW codex Njal has a power usable on a +7 rolls (he gets a d3 + round to figure out that number so he couldnt have done it at least untill round 4) that hits all units within 12 with d6 s8 ap5 hits. But he does need line of site, so he couldnt shoot it from inside the LR. Sounds like the guy made a mistake.

Dont let one bad tourny turn you off of them though.

no he does not need line of site, hes not doing the shooting its a storm effect hes not shooting anything its auto hits period and it didnt happen till turn 4 then turn 5 and turn 6


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The real shenanigans happened on turn 4. I had positioned my walkers such that I was ready to go punch out his LR full of super dudes. I was winning at thins points, or at least, it was looking good. However, he rolled some power for Njal that inflicts D6 S8 HITS on every unengaged model withing 12 inches. So, in one insane swoop, he moved withing 12 of my walkers and proceeded to wreck, immobilize, and weapon drestroy every one. In one turn, with Njal hiding in a Lr he destroyed my army. Whats funny, is that he rolled this power again the next turn, and olbiterated the remaining injured walkers, and rolled it again the next turn and simply annihilated me. Njar, with this crazy super power was able to do more damage to me than entire mech IG armies have done in 6 turns. I found this funny, and rather Silly. My opponent agreed. I conceded the game. There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends, but they did not really matter. Njal beat my whole army in 1 turn. This was rather frustrating.

and id really like to know what shennanigans you thought occurred during your multi charge it was worked out exactly as it was intended are you about to try and tell everyone here on this board that the second squad you assaulted with didnt get any hits on ragnar as they werent in base to base with him ever?

and yes that is exactly how the tempest storm works

and i use the quote from the sw faq on another world effect power

Q. Is a vehicle hit by a Vengeful Tornado result literally hit
on its side armour, and therefore does it get the Obscured
cover save if Njal cannot see one of its sides? (p53)
A. No – Vengeful Tornado is not a shooting attack and
therefore allows no cover save. Essentially the tornado
strikes from directly directly above; the side armour is used to
represent this.

the number 7 power is not a psychic shooting attack no cover saves not line of site needed, and since the faq did not address this i even gave you front armor as it didnt say side armor i wouldnt get side

i really hate sunday morning quarterbacks if you had any question when this happened you had every right to call gordy in to verify what i was doing. i have every confidence in what happened on turns 4-6 and as i was going second i intentionally moved him up into position for max effect i took a gamble and it worked

the event is no where near as bad as this guy said it was did it have some issues yeah sure but 29 people showed up you can expect a few issues to arise

and no i didnt win overall i placed second

I was concerned this would happen. I am being honest when I say that I am not upset about this. I do NOT think you were cheating. I do not want this to turn into something where, if you see my at a tournament in the future then I bring up a feeling of rage. You beat me. Its over. I don't want to make an enemy out of you, and I will honestly be sad if I have already done so.

During our game, I did not have any question. You explained everything to me. There was no problem.

And I am sorry, I had heard from someone else that you had won the tournament.

I know that Njal's power is an area effect, but the sentence I am talking about, and have discussed with friends simply to better understand an army that soundly beat me is on page 53 of the space wolves codex. Under the "Lord of Tempest" Special rule for Njal, the last sentence of the paragraph reads "Only enemy models in Njal's line of sight can be affected by the tempest's effects."

If I have misinterpreted this please explain it to me, and I will apologize.


As for Ragnar, I am not sure what you mean. I merely meant that my berzerkers didnt do anything in the sense that they all died, and it was a VP advantage for you.

why don't you guys take it to the YMDC forum and see what the community at large has to say?

Perhaps the Njal special rules are best left for YMDC? It appears to me that requiring LOS means you need a fire point if you're in a transport to be able to use it, whether it is a psychic shooting attack or not.

Horton

sometimes when reading type written words it is difficult to discern a persons meaning. from the mass emails i recived from my friends they had got the idea i was being called a cheater .. that being said...

Ill start with a simple one.. the ragnar issue

"There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends"

i read this and took it to meant that i pulled something fishy in this cc? again read intent and true meaning two different things

ok there is no feeling of rage.. initially i was upset about it but as we tried to work things out during the game i have fallen back to this position

if we were to meet again i would be honored to play you again

"""" forgot the reason for this altogether"""
as it is not a shooting attack from where he was located did the vehicle he was in have clear line of site to all that i hit yes.. there is no issue as far as i can see

"""EDIT 2ND TIME""""
I have taken the issue to GW and have asked for a rules clarification now knowing that we can get 5 different answers on 5 different days, they have been updating faq's more often as of late maybe they will address this.

Rle68 wrote:Horton

sometimes when reading type written words it is difficult to discern a persons meaning. from the mass emails i recived from my friends they had got the idea i was being called a cheater .. that being said...

Ill start with a simple one.. the ragnar issue

"There were some other interesting details involving mass berzerker charges on Ragnar and friends"

i read this and took it to meant that i pulled something fishy in this cc? again read intent and true meaning two different things

ok there is no feeling of rage.. initially i was upset about it but as we tried to work things out during the game i have fallen back to this position

if we were to meet again i would be honored to play you again

"""" forgot the reason for this altogether"""
as it is not a shooting attack from where he was located did the vehicle he was in have clear line of site to all that i hit yes.. there is no issue as far as i can see

"""EDIT 2ND TIME""""
I have taken the issue to GW and have asked for a rules clarification now knowing that we can get 5 different answers on 5 different days, they have been updating faq's more often as of late maybe they will address this.

As long as you can possibly see where I am coming from then I am ok with it. If we still disagree, then I am happy to just agree to disagree. I am not out to make any enemies. I only brought it up because when I found this rule in the codex then I thought it was counter to what we had played. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, and there is nothing else to say.

Dont know whos right or wrong right now ...does a psychic in a transport that is not shooting a psychic power not have any line of site while in a vehicle that does have a line of site? dont know.. cant say for sure i can simply go by the fact he wasnt shooting and the vehicle he was riding in at that moment did have line of site to those targets.

now if we go back to that round if he cant see then i would have easily put him and the grey hunters out of that side of the raider and sent ragnar by himself after the demon prince which is what in effect happened

now taking into account that i destroyed one dread stunned a second and immobilized the third and thats not counting any meltas or anything else i dare say the results would have been the same

Hey Rob. You are a good friend to me, so don't be upset with what I found.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030054_FAQ_40Krulebook_Feb2010.pdf

"Q. Can a model use a psychic power that is not a Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport vehicle?
A. Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will count as one model shooting through that fire point if the power is used in the Shooting phase). If the psychic power does not require line of sight and has a range or an area of effect that is normally measured from the model using it, these are measured from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking section on page 66."

So based on that FAQ, sounds like line of site anything still requires firepoints. Only powers that do not require line of site can be measured from the hull of a vehicle. Sorry dude, but sounds like you all had a really great game none the less.

SuTech wrote:Hey Rob. You are a good friend to me, so don't be upset with what I found.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030054_FAQ_40Krulebook_Feb2010.pdf

"Q. Can a model use a psychic power that is not a Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport vehicle?
A. Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will count as one model shooting through that fire point if the power is used in the Shooting phase). If the psychic power does not require line of sight and has a range or an area of effect that is normally measured from the model using it, these are measured from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking section on page 66."

So based on that FAQ, sounds like line of site anything still requires firepoints. Only powers that do not require line of site can be measured from the hull of a vehicle. Sorry dude, but sounds like you all had a really great game none the less.

Njal's Tempest power(s) are not a psychic attack of any sort. There are no psychic tests to use them. It is a Njal specific special rule that according to the codex, requires line of sight to affected targets. As far as the above rules goes, we are basically saying the same thing, however. Gotta have a fire point to have line of sight.

Twitch