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Hey Dakka, I've been browsing through Forgeworld's new model range, and an interesting thought came into my head, who would you rather see run 40k, Forgeworld or Games Workshop? I greatly appreciate Forgeworld's openness in their policy towards experimental rules, and it goes without saying that their model range is absolutely fantastic. That said, they are certainly geared more towards larger games with bigger and more outrageous units, which would seriously shift the focus of 40k today (lots of MSUs, Special Characters and cheesy rules). So, what do you think, Dakka? If Forgeworld had the manpower to take over 40k, would you like them to, or do you appreciate the game where it is now, in the hands of Games Workshop?

Whilst FW do some nice models and books, I don't think they are set up to take on running everything that GW does, even with more manpower.

It would be nice if they had a bigger presence in GW in terms of getting more of their kits in plastic and more of their rules into GW rulesets though.

SilverMK2 wrote:
It would be nice if they had a bigger presence in GW in terms of getting more of their kits in plastic and more of their rules into GW rulesets though.

That is all.

I mean, why the hell doesn't GW even stock FW in their stores? I mean, you don't have to have titans on the shelves, but a little krieg here or there would be nice.

Forgeworld is notorious for having unbalanced rules when compared to GW....

There are some of the units that they made, (Land Raider Achillies, Assault Ram) That were way too good, and a lot of other units that are just kinda useless or too many points to take.

Well to tell the truth I like the Forgeworld models, but all the models I had contact with were either disfigured or warped or having defects. If FW were to take over it would be a pain in the ass to buy anything new...

The option "I like it just the way it is" is missing. Because really, the FW models are great, the books are awesome, and the rules are wonderful for themed armies and the kind of campaigns they present in their books. FW models can easily be incorporated into standard 40k armies, those with special rules are fine for fluff gaming, too.

I really do not see any advantages to stopping GW doing the main game and FW publishing rules and models for less central concepts.

Counterquestion: Should Rolls Royce take over Chevrolet?

Forgeworld, aside from the Lucius Drop Pod, Achilles LR, and Caestus (all rather recent Space Marine units from the last couple years), have generally put out very well balanced rules. Those three units sorta spoil it, but FW overall has a far better track record of designing balanced units and lists than the core design studio has.

EDIT: That said, I'm with others in stating I'd be happy if they just had an actual presence with GW and in events, rather than being relegated to being almost an entirely different game by far too many close minded and ill informed/uneducated (in terms of FW at least) players who have no intention or desire to inform themselves or play anything that won't be seen in the couple tournament events may or may not play each year or that they haven't seen and played against several hundred times.

Fafnir wrote:I mean, why the hell doesn't GW even stock FW in their stores? I mean, you don't have to have titans on the shelves, but a little krieg here or there would be nice.

It's just bizarre. I suppose it's because they focus on the younger customers in the shop and don't want to fill it with stuff they can't actually sell to them.

Or maybe it's because they don't feel they could supply the demand and quality required to stock highstreet shops efficiently. People have come to expect plastic kit quality and availability in all things from a GW store and FW is more specialised and niche than that and carries the compilation of having to work with resin. You have a lot more work to do and that doesn't fit at all with the way they want to play stuff straight out the box. They currently allow unpainted models to be played with but understandably that wouldn't be appropriate with resin and you can't have people working with resin in the shop in the modelling area. They mention new FW products in WD but they've never even done an article that I recall showing people how to work with it as a material, they have a great product and want to keep it niche.

I don't understand why don't they invest more in Forgeworld's operation, they seem determined to keep it as a small operation even though they appear to operate very profitably and could expand a fair bit due to the huge demand on some items.

I like how GW is running 40k so far.

GW isn't perfect, but Forgeworld isn't big enough to run the operation. Even so, some people complain that GW is more about the models than the rules; seeing how Forgeworld is 99% about the models, I don't see them being too happy. GW could stand to adopt some of their policies, however: experimental rules and actually putting previews of minis in newsletters would go a long way.

I'd like some cheap Elysians (the only guard I like really) so I don't mind really if they take over.

FW are GW. FW are meerly a specialist department within GW so you would still have the same fellers running the show. Merely a change of focus.

I would suggest what the OP opines is that really he would like to see 40K more imbalanced that it is already perceived to be.

GW used to behave like this (2nd/3rd edition) and sometimes you didn't know if you were coming or going with main rulebooks, codices, articles/lists in WD and Journals etc.

I don't think a return to those days would be very good. But GW doo seem to have noticed that there is a market for this ergo large models, Apoc and the continued existence of FW.

Skylifter wrote:The option "I like it just the way it is" is missing. Because really, the FW models are great, the books are awesome, and the rules are wonderful for themed armies and the kind of campaigns they present in their books. FW models can easily be incorporated into standard 40k armies, those with special rules are fine for fluff gaming, too.

I really do not see any advantages to stopping GW doing the main game and FW publishing rules and models for less central concepts.

I think that choice would be 'Games Workshop', since they still hold final sway over everything in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, keep in mind, I did mention that FW would have to obtain more manpower in this scenario, but I'm mostly asking what people think about where either of these companies are headed, and if they had a preference. I'll add in a 'I like it where it is', and a 'I'd like a hybrid' option.

Personally I think that Forgeworld is fairly dry in flavor, which Games Workshop has in spades. I'd be more interested in seeing a hybrid of the positive qualities of both companies, both doing things I like.

I was reading some of the Imperial Armor books last night in class, and I was struck about how the IA books, written by Forgeworld, are surprisingly literate in the area of military affairs. This stands in stark contrast to GW, which.....well, I'm fairly sure their only exposure to military affairs is by watching episodes of G.I. Joe.

It staggers me that the same company that can write a ruleset that actually has tactics (Fantasy) can also write one that's really a joke (40k), or that the subsection that's just supposed to make resin models has better backstory, and arguably, rule creation than the main entity, in addition to making models that are just better.

Maybe if forgeworld dind't bend the models it shipped to me than I wouldn't have as much as a problem with them running it.

I mean forgeworld is putting out new stuff all the time, but that's because its there job too. Not everyone has constant access to to the internet, so it wouldn't be fair for people to get to use the brand new things in tournaments that haven't been play tested well enough.

The problem with playtesting a particular model, is that you're specifically playing to see how good a certain thing is. That means you're doing things you might not ever do, and it can ruin the chance for a model to get the rules it needs. They can't dedicate the time to creating new models and making balance rules at the same time.

Soulx wrote:Maybe if forgeworld dind't bend the models it shipped to me than I wouldn't have as much as a problem with them running it.

It's the nature of large resin models, FW isn't the only one with this issue, and it generally isn't all that hard to fix with about 3 minutes and some hot water.

I mean forgeworld is putting out new stuff all the time, but that's because its there job too. Not everyone has constant access to to the internet, so it wouldn't be fair for people to get to use the brand new things in tournaments that haven't been play tested well enough.

Lets be honest, lack of internet access amongst GW's markets is not an issue at all. I've had consistent internet access since I was in elementary school, and I'm out of graduate school now. Between the proliferation of smart phones, wireless internet, cheap broadband, and publicly available access in libraries, cafes, and many gaming stores/clubs, it's a non-issue. I can walk into my store on any given night and probably half the store could get online to any site from their phones.

This also assumes that events always use the latest rules for anything without any time adjustment like they do for codecies (e.g. generally give them a month or so to switch over).

They can't dedicate the time to creating new models and making balance rules at the same time.

Those two things should be the responsibility of different staff, shouldn't be an issue.

My issue with forgeworld is that the models are nice but you can't use a lot of the expensive models(such as the Marauder bomber) at Official GW tournaments

But the good thing is that many forge world models get translated to plastic within the next few years to complement the release of a new codex

I like forgeworld models more but I wish they were plastic but I like how things are

svendrex wrote:Forgeworld is notorious for having unbalanced rules when compared to GW....

There are some of the units that they made, (Land Raider Achillies, Assault Ram) That were way too good, and a lot of other units that are just kinda useless or too many points to take.

Their rules are so notriously unbalanced that no one has a clue how balanced they are.

Seriously, the 3 units you listed are the only standard units they've released with bs rules. The rest of their units are either balanced well or balanced in favour of the person opposing them.

I said standard units since Gargantuan Creatures and Superheavies always get a bad rap, but they're only legally useable in Apocalypse or 2000pt+ games where you can take a second FoC. In games that size, you shouldn't have trouble taking them down. And Forgeworlds IA rules are weaker than the GW Apocalypse rules.

GW puts out far more unbalanced units in codices. With every codex release. With the simple intent of making them unbalanced to sell more models.

I think that Forgeworld understands that a well designed game will sell well even if the newest army isn't the best one. I'd like to see a more dynamic set of armies in further iterations, which would by itself may make gamers buy more models, aka, to try new and more different armies out. The issue with 'moar sphess muhrienz hurr durr' is that eventually the game is going to get increasingly vanilla, despite the enormous variations in the codexes themselves. Think about it this way, since troops are so radically important in the game, having almost the same troops per army is going to be close to a stalemate. Hell, even the Imperial Guard vs. the Space Marines is a much more dynamic game, not to mention Necrons vs. Tau, Eldar vs. Tyranids, Dark Eldar vs. Imperial Guard, all of those are significantly more interesting and thoughtfully engaging than Space Marines vs. Space Marines, and the direction this game is headed, with Space Marines variants getting an update every other codex, not to mention making up half of the armies already (I'm convinced they need to consolidate their codecies, SM clump, Inquisition clump, IG/AdMech clump, reducing it to THREE imperial armies, instead of six,) and instead of releasing more books, make more involved and interesting books. I wish I was around for the older chaos codexes, back when 40k was a sidenote in the warhammer world, just a concept sold alongside the much larger Warhammer Fantasy game.


Wow that got off-topic fast. /Rant.

Honestly I would be happy if FW set up a factory here in U.S to deal with north America deliveries. Either that or offer dealer discounts like GW does. Another thing I would like to see is GW to do some major play testing to FW armies like dkog and give everybody a green light on using them in tournaments.

I like the look of Forge World models, I think they're fantastic! Never actually bought one though, they'll come out in plastic eventually won't they?

*cough*Thunderhawk*cough*

I mean, they're awesome, and I love the things, but the £400 price tag on it is a little too high for just one model.

Isn't ForgeWorld based in the same building as GW now? Or at least on the same campus? The address is the same isn't it?

Forge Worlds models are made on an as needed basis I think.

The models are really cool. The rules for them, less so. They tend to follow fluff more closely than GW does with it's creations. Which tends to make some of them really powerful on the gaming table. Much of the models are based on situational battles as well. Stuff you probably wouldn't see elsewhere. Fluff-wise anyway.

I get a miscast at least 1 out of 5 models. The customer service is much better than it was and I'm usually sent a replacement part very quickly. GW has great service as well in my experience.

I've been petitioning them for real scale space marines. A long shot I know, but I've purchased many thousands of dollars worth of models... thought I'd give it a try. Seems like something they'd do, but maybe RSSM's just won't sell.

Phil Kelly writing rules for FW models. Why isn't this an option.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Phil Kelly writing rules for FW models. Why isn't this an option.

Or Phil Kelly Writing Everything's rules

Mewiththeface wrote:Or Phil Kelly Writing Everything's rules

This.

Instead, what do we get? Space Vampire Jesus and his friends.

Has anyone seen a more even poll in their life? Look at that thing. That is the most indecisive data chart I've ever seen. (except for the I don't like anyone option).

Double post...

Without GW there would be no Forge World. They dont innovate the game themselves, they simply put twists on existing models or ideas. Kind of like getting a Ferrari and adding rims and a new paintjob.

Um. Who made the Baneblade? Valkyrie? Pretty sure it was Forgeworld first.