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Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh





As of the moment, I'm trying to put together a fairly competitive army, but I'm really just getting into the game, and only have a select number of models available, and probably not going to get any new ones any time soon. XP So, I'm looking to you guys to help me decide what the best way to use what I have, and hopefully not just play the game, but maybe win it sometimes too. XD Alright, so here's what I have:

1x Chaos Lord
1x Chaos Sorcerer
1x Abaddon
1x Lucius
1x Daemon Prince
1x Greater Daemon
12x Berzerkers
18x Chaos Space Marines (I usually have one squad of basic troops, and field 8 as Chosen)
2x Chaos Dreadnoughts (I know people hate them, but they're the best AV I have, so I'm trying to use them)
2x Rhinos
8x Havocs
5x Bikers
10x Lesser Daemons
2x Obliterators

So yeah...that's pretty much all I'm packing right now. Do you think I can make a competitive list out of this? I usually play games anywhere from 1000 to 2000 points (if I use everything I have XD), and most of my games are against IG. So far, I run the models like so:
1850 pts.
Chaos Lord -140
Daemon Weapon / Mark of Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer -125
MoS / Lash of Submission
Chaos Chosen x8 -229
Plasmagun x5 / IoCG
Chaos Dreadnought -110
T-linked Autocannon
Chaos Dreadnought -105
T-linked Heavy Bolter
Khorne Berzerkers x6 -171
Rhino / Combi-melta / Champion / Power Fist (Lord riding with)
Khorne Berzerkers x6 -171
Rhino / Combi-melta / Champion / Power Fist (Sorcerer riding with)
Plague Marines x5 -145 (regular CSM standing in as Plague Marines)
Plasma Gun x2
Plague Marines x5 -145
Plasma Gun x2
Bikers x5 -195
Meltagun x2 / IcoCG
Chaos Havocs x8 -150
Missile Launcher x4 / IoCG
Obliterators x2 -150

So what do you think? Is this list competitive? Could I do better with what I have? Or do I just really really need to buy more Rhinos?

 
   
Made in gb
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




York, UK

For your benefit, I will recall a CSM force I played and lost against at 1000pts (me BA player)

HQ1 Nurgle Deamon Prince (wings), Breath of Chaos
HQ2 Tzeench Deamon Prince (wings), Bolt of Tzeench
TR1 Plague Marines (8ish?)
TR2 Thousand Sons (6ish?)
TR3 Regular CSMarines (8ish?)
plus a couple of Chaos Spawn with the left over points for a laugh.

True to form, the spawn did nothing, but that didnt matter as the rest of his army romper-stomped me!

It doesnt quite fit your models, but, hell, my guy was proxying most from deamon models (ie Thousand sons represented by pink horror models!)

[Image removed by Google due to too much awesomeness] 
   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh





I don't want to sound unappreciative, so I'm sorry if it comes out that way, but everything I've read on these forums and many others tell me that list is pure garbage. Nurgle Princes should have Warptime, everytime. I've never once seen someone use a Tzeentch DP in a list, so that says something on its own. Thousand Sons are a walking contradiction : you can take 5 man squads with a sorc with bolt of change, and you suddenly have cheap spammable anti-tank, but then all your AP3 bolter shots never get used. It's like, they're good, but they're not...As far as I can tell, there's really NO reason to field regular CSM in this army. Cult troops are one of the only things we have over other marine armies, and with Berzerkers to take ground, and Plague Marines to hold it, it's a terrible shame not to use them as much as you can. I would go so far as to say it's never cost effective to take regular CSM over Plague marines, ever. And spawn? Really? :( It's a unit with Slow and Purposeful that goes in my Fast Attack slot...and it's quite literally slowed to boot. Never, ever, never ever never EVER would I use spawn. Not even as a joke. My opponent might take it as an insult or something. XD

 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Rhino Driver with Destroyer





Bristol, Uk

I play CSM and run a list similar to yours. So here's a brief edit of your list;

Chaos Lord -140
Daemon Weapon / Mark of Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer -125
MoS / Lash of Submission-(make him Nurgle and give him a familiar. Perfect line support for your plague marines)
Chaos Chosen x8 -229
Plasmagun x5 / IoCG-(give these dudes meltas=tank hunters)
Chaos Dreadnought -110
T-linked Autocannon
Chaos Dreadnought -105
T-linked Heavy Bolter
Khorne Berzerkers x6 -171
Rhino / Combi-melta / Champion / Power Fist (Lord riding with)
Khorne Berzerkers x6 -171
Rhino / Combi-melta / Champion / Power Fist (Sorcerer riding with)
Plague Marines x5 -145 (regular CSM standing in as Plague Marines)
Plasma Gun x2
Plague Marines x5 -145
Plasma Gun x2
Bikers x5 -195
Meltagun x2 / IcoCG
Chaos Havocs x8 -150
Missile Launcher x4 / IoCG
Obliterators x2 -150

You really should have a Daemon Prince as well. These monsters are what make a CSM army so badass!
I would ditch the dreads and field more Chosen with the MoK to enhance a two wave attack strategy. Use the Chosen you already have as fire-support for two smaller units of Chosen (use Berserkers) armed with meltas and power weapons. By the time your opponent has got to grips with a third of your army set up 12 inches from his battleline the rest have revved up in rhinos and bikes and the massacre begins.

All praise the Omnissiah! 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

I use my Nurgle DP's (I usually run 2 of them) without warptime - usually to save points to use somewhere else.

Warptime is handy if you have it, but not essential.

I don't run anything Tzeentch, so I can't comment on that aspect, however, they do have their uses.

I personally also take plain CSM a lot of the time to save on costs. I would rather have more bodies than a slightly harder to kill unit. More bodies in more units means more targets for your enemy to shoot at, and more tactical flexibility. I only use PM's if I have a lot of spare points to use up, or if I think I might need extra staying power on the table (oh er!).

With the models that you have, I would split the CSM into 2 squads of 8 (with 2 left over), give each a champ with a power fist (for MC and tank killing), a melta (for tank killing) both in rhinos (with the extra bolter if you have the points).

Use the extra CSM from above to bring your havocs up to 2 squads of 5. Give them 4AC or 4ML each and stick them in a couple of buildings with good views and use them to pop transports to stop the enemy's mobility and blow up infantry when the transports are gone.

Run the greater daemon as another daemon price. Give your princes wings. I personally try to always give them MoN as well to make them last a bit longer.

I've never used bikes before, but if you can, split them into 2 squads and have them act as a charge shield for your DP. I also like to advance my DP's behind the rhinos to give them extra cover, but in a terrain heavy board, this becomes less of an issue.

Dreads can be great fun for chaos and are one of the few places you can get plasma cannons in the CSM force, so can be handy for that. I try to ensure that they are always pointing their 90 degree firearc towards the enemy and not my troops (since according to the INAT rules the dreads don't pivot when determining what they are shooting at when they roll their crazed shooting result - they have to select a target to fire at in the weapons arc of fire).

The rest of your army you can fill in however you want (the 2 oblits can fill in the remaining HS slot).

The 'zerkers you can run behind the rhinos and DP's w/bikers, or you can split them up and give them the rhinos and leave the CSM to defend your objectives/protect the havocs/whatever.

I'm not a hugely experienced player, but that is what I would do with the models you have.

   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh





I have tried and tried and tried to use Daemon Princes. I have crap luck, so almost everyone at my FLGS plays either IG, Eldar, or SM. What that means for me, is that if I step my prince out of cover for one turn, he's dead. Seriously, last 3 games I played, I was running one Sorc with lash and one prince with lash. In all three games, the DP got wrecked on my opponent's shooting phase. Boom. There goes half my lash capability, which just so happens to be one of the only ways chaos can even win anymore. I am so close to just going 2 lash sorcerers in rhinos with berzerks to pull them into assault range. I know some people swear by DP, but I just can't get them to work right for me. I think I play too aggressively or something...

 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

You don't need lash to win - I've never used it and I've won with my CSM

You do need to keep DP's well covered though as everyone knows how deadly they can be in CC, which is why I like to run mine beind a rhino. I only let him off on his own when there is plenty of cover on the board.

   
Made in gb
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




York, UK

Heh, luck is luck!

The same Tzeecnch DP (T5, 4++ save, 4W) my friend plays with has been taken down in 1 turn by an IG heavy weapons squad (with bring it down orders) in 1 turn!

It has also come through 5 scout sniper rifles, Razorbacks tl HB, HB/ML speeder, HF/MM speeder all firing at it to no effect!

Nurgle DP (T6, 5++ save, 4W) is just as tough to bring down.

Plague marines with T5, 5++/3+ and FnP sit on objectives and are not moved.

Thousand suns are anti-MEQ and with 4++/3+ are also tough to kill.

Well, I have troubles with this force!

[Image removed by Google due to too much awesomeness] 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

SilverMK2 gave some excellent advice.

Chaos Lords are pretty poor, and the Khornate DW is the worst possible option for them. They're usuable for HtH with lightning claws , with no mark and a daemon weapon, or with the nurgle DW. But a DP is almost always better/cheaper. Sorcerers are good; as you said, in a Rhino is smart. Abby is good in a LR, but he's a lot of points and better in larger games. Greater Daemons are nice, cheap MCs. The only issue is the delivery system.

I've recently been getting fonder of Chaos Dreads. As Silver said, they're one of the only places to get a plasmacannon. Even better, though, for my money is the ML option. This is only 100pts and gives you another 48" range antitank gun, which is normally only easily found in the HS slots. If he happens to go fire frenzy on your own stuff, make sure it's a hard target like a Rhino, and just fire Frag.

Suggested list:
DP w/wings, Nurgle, Warp Time: 185
Sorc w/wings, MoS, Lash: 145
Greater Daemon: 100

Dread w/ML: 100
Dread w/ML: 100
5x Chosen w/3x Melta, 1x flamer, naked champ: 135

8 Berserkers w/Fist Champ, Icon: 213
in Rhino w/Combi-melta: 45
10 CSMs w/2x melta, Icon of Glory, PW Champ: 210
in Rhino w/Combi-melta: 45
5x LD: 65
5x LD: 65

3x bikes w/2 flamers, naked champ: 124

5 Havocs w/4xML, Icon of Glory: 165
2 Oblits: 150

1847

-----------------

This is not too-dissimilar to a list I used recently in a large RTT, taking 3rd and tabling Tau and Deathwing, and beating SW solidly. My list has terminators, a second squad of Oblits, only one Dread and no GD or bikes, but this works similarly.

The Chosen and Bikes can both act as delivery systems for the GD. The Chosen are great at Outflanking to kill tanks hiding in a corner, or just shoot and charge units like Longfangs. Either can be used to contest objectives in the enemy backfield, and the Bikes with their flamers can clear out squishy objective-holding units like Scouts, Pathfinders, or Grots who rely on cover to survive. Be sure to Turbo the Bikes on turn one to the best-hidden position you can get that's close to the enemy for delivering the GD if he shows up on turn 2. If he doesn't, keep them safe and hidden, and you might get lucky and have the Chosen show up first; which can give you a chance of having a GD pop up in the enemy DZ.

The LDs are purely for holding objectives at a low cost. Use cover with them and don't forget they can still Go To Ground for a 3+ save if in cover holding an objective.

The DP, GD, Dreads and Zerks are your main assault elements, though the CSMs certainly aren't bad at it. They aren't as durable as PMs (except in cover, against weapons of S7+ which deny FNP; against which they're superior), but have greater offensive output.

Oblits, Havocs, and Dread MLs need to focus on enemy transports, particularly fast-movers first. The havocs or Oblits also have a fun secondary trick combined with Lash- bunch up a squad for 10-15 hits from a single blast template and let fly with 4 frags or 2 plasma. My record is over 40 Frag hits in a single round.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
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