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Hello again.

I am trying to come up with a good tyranid list. I just want to know know what people think of the harpie with twin linked heavy venom cannon. While it will not destroy tanks (until CC) it will probably get to stunn them. it is still 170 points for 4 T5 wounds though. Have anybody tryed these an linked them?

The second thought I have is if anybody has tryed ripper swarms with adrenal glands. Yes you heard me right. For 14 points you get 5 str 4 attacks on the charge, and the unit has stealth. Just hope to good you do not meet any str 6+ blast templates. For 252 points you can cover the entier table in them with ahuge wing of them on each side. Quite cheap considering how mutch they can withstand, vinidicators not withstanding.

The Harpy really depends on your local meta. I play against too many Tau and IG armies to consider taking them in an all-comers list. I think they would do excellent if you are running up against DE or Orcs.

The lack of scoring makes them pretty unattractive in my eyes, and by the time you tool them up with AG they are a bit too expensive with the amount of flamers and blasts out there.

I'm a big fan of harpies in a MC stomper list.

My experience with Harpies is really mixed, it's a big model, and hard to get cover for, depending on how you modeled it. and it's fairly unreliable in assault and shooting. I've never personally used one to great effect, but YMMV. I just think for the points you can almost have a Trygon, which is far Superior IMO.

I've played against Harpies a few times, and the Tyranid players I talk to always express regret at taking it, or if they don't take it, they dismiss its utility.

Doesn't it have a 4+ save? I think the problem is that it simply evaporates once its on the board. Its not hard to cause four wounds whether you're taking a 4+ armour save or a 4+ cover save.

FOr your ripper swarms....what is their iniatitive, and do they have grenades?

I'd give the Harpies cluster spines, and keep their twin-linked stranglethorn cannon.

Now, for a list, 2 or 3 harpies will not cut it.

I'd suggest 2 with a screen of gargs (20+, depending on points, with upgrades).

Then throw in a winged Hive Tyrant and the Parasite.

NOW you have 4 flying threats on the board with 4+ cover saves. Your clocking in at close to 900 points already, but in an 1850 list, your barely half way there.

The remainder of your list now needs definition.

No troop options? Throw in some genestealers to outflank and shrink the board.

Moderate anti-tank capability? Throw in some Hive Guards for long range anti-tank?

Haven't filled up those Heavy Slots? Pod in some Carnifexes with heavy guns!

At that point, you've made a list around 1850 with lots of flyers, good anti-tank support, and lots of threats for an opponent to deal with.

The venom cannon of either size is just not a good weapon.

it only has 1 shot so it is not as reliable as other multi-shot anti-tank weapons

A blast can be less accurate than a single shot weapon, depending on what you are shooting

-1 on the damage table is really bad.


On the Harpy, T5 with a 4+ save means that Anything S10 hits it and it is gone, and there is quite a bit of S10. Railguns, Zoethropes, Manticores, Vindicators...ect.

As an MC it is hard to get cover, and with a 4+ save it is deciated by weapons like Autocannons, Heavy Bolters, Loota Guns, Assault Cannons...ect.

Also, the extra movement may not be as useful, because it is not a synapse creatre, and you do not want it getting out of synapse range. If you are moving 6" to stay in synapse, you might as well have taken a carnifex.

To sum up, it has a weapon that is not very good, combined with a model that is weak against a lot of common weapons, and you have something just not very good, I think.

svendrex wrote:The venom cannon of either size is just not a good weapon.

it only has 1 shot so it is not as reliable as other multi-shot anti-tank weapons

A blast can be less accurate than a single shot weapon, depending on what you are shooting

-1 on the damage table is really bad.


On the Harpy, T5 with a 4+ save means that Anything S10 hits it and it is gone, and there is quite a bit of S10. Railguns, Zoethropes, Manticores, Vindicators...ect.

As an MC it is hard to get cover, and with a 4+ save it is deciated by weapons like Autocannons, Heavy Bolters, Loota Guns, Assault Cannons...ect.

Also, the extra movement may not be as useful, because it is not a synapse creatre, and you do not want it getting out of synapse range. If you are moving 6" to stay in synapse, you might as well have taken a carnifex.

To sum up, it has a weapon that is not very good, combined with a model that is weak against a lot of common weapons, and you have something just not very good, I think.

All good points.

The trick is though is to pocket the MC inside a list that features multiple threats. Like Nobs who fear Str 8 weaponry, their main hope of reaching combat is to jump inside Battlewagons. Now 1 Battlewagon will not make it to an opponent, but now if there are 3 or 4 with multiple threats inside...now there is hope it gets through.

If you keep its original weaponry, but add in an extra blast template weapon, you now have 2 Large Blast template to throw around; coupled with other threats, you have no increased the change it can reach the battlelines and do some damage.

Thanks for all the replyes, I am not all that conviced it is good however.

Dash, it is apparent you do not play a lott of nids, but it sounds like your are in a competetive enviorment so it does not surpice me.

Ripper swarm are 10 points I2 S3 WS2. For 14 they get furius charge enabeling them to glance tanks (hurray!)

Do they have grenades? No. Only one unit has greandes in 5th edition at it is considering a VERY bad unit. (Lictor and death leaper. Leaper is OK vs non space wolves psykers.)

Niiai wrote:

Do they have grenades? No. Only one unit has greandes in 5th edition at it is considering a VERY bad unit. (Lictor and death leaper. Leaper is OK vs non space wolves psykers.)

Also the Carnifex can get grenades as well, but Carnifex is currently too overpriced to be used.

AdeptSister wrote:

Niiai wrote:

Do they have grenades? No. Only one unit has greandes in 5th edition at it is considering a VERY bad unit. (Lictor and death leaper. Leaper is OK vs non space wolves psykers.)

Also the Carnifex can get grenades as well, but Carnifex is currently too overpriced to be used.

The Harpy does have Assault Grenades, it's under the Sonic Screech Rule.

I have not used a harpy yet, but the idea of having the range to deal with tanks (stopping them from shooting is enough for me) beyond hive guard range is an attractive prospect. As mentioned the fragility is a big downer and as such it will require clever use with other units in your list to stop it from being killed to quickly.

I have not run rippers with adrenals, but I have with toxic sacs. They are great fun and make a good unit for deterring high T units like bikers from harassing you. Also with toxic sacs you do not always have to get the charge to do the damage, and without move through cover (I think...) they are a relatively slow tyranid unit.

They can be cleaned up very easily with flamers and blasts but that can be an asset in some cases, as they will often draw fire from nasty guns otherwise being fired at your scoring gaunts and gants. In that case the biomorphs are their simply to make sure they are just enough of a threat so they have to be dealt with at some stage.

Lithophile wrote:I have not used a harpy yet, but the idea of having the range to deal with tanks (stopping them from shooting is enough for me) beyond hive guard range is an attractive prospect. As mentioned the fragility is a big downer and as such it will require clever use with other units in your list to stop it from being killed to quickly.

I have not run rippers with adrenals, but I have with toxic sacs. They are great fun and make a good unit for deterring high T units like bikers from harassing you. Also with toxic sacs you do not always have to get the charge to do the damage, and without move through cover (I think...) they are a relatively slow tyranid unit.

They can be cleaned up very easily with flamers and blasts but that can be an asset in some cases, as they will often draw fire from nasty guns otherwise being fired at your scoring gaunts and gants. In that case the biomorphs are their simply to make sure they are just enough of a threat so they have to be dealt with at some stage.

The problem with using rippers to draw fire, is by the time you tool them up to be any real threat, they are just too expensive and not resiliant enough to be used as a fire magnet.

Actually Blast weapons aren't that much less accurate than regular weapons. A BS3 you have an average of 0.50 hits, above and beyond whatever the marker might touch if it moves beyond 1". As such, it's even better than rolling 4+ for a straight-up S6 or S9 AP4 shot. It can cause more casualties on infantry, typically wounding on a 2+, and it's less likely to miss a large vehicle.

The -1 to the damage table is ignored if you're shooting at Open-Topped vehicles like Raiders, Battlewagons, and such. Against Close-Topped vehicles, they're like safety weapons: no risk of exploding the vehicle that you're planning to charge, and often the benefits of Immobilizing or Stunning a vehicle. The 36" threat range lets you affect the other side of the board in the next turn...

But that's just capabilities. If you're going to use Venom Cannons, you need to understand the strategy of suppression. Suppression is about preserving your army. It is three-fold.

1. You need to be able to reach the enemy with shooting from Turn 1.

2. You need to come at the enemy from all angles. You need Outflankers, Deep Strikers, and a solid horde to advance up the field.

3. You need over-lapping unit functionality. Winged Tyrants with Heavy Venom Cannon can fulfill similar functions to Harpies with Twin-Linked Venom Cannons, and both can fulfill similar functions to a Carnifex with a Heavy Venom Cannon. This is important because it lets you benefit from spam without spamming units.

You do this by weighing the threat preferences that combination of targets will produce. Harpies are clearly less valuable than Winged Tyrants, for example, so if your enemy has an otherwise equal choice between them, the Tyrant would get it. Essentially speaking, you need to attack along multiple vectors. If you're going after a squad of Long Fangs, for example, with three units that can charge next turn, one of those units is getting through a round of shooting with a freebie.

Getting the first shot is important and getting that is easier with a Hive Tyrant than a Tyranid Prime. A reserve bonus combined with a bonus outflank is pretty handy if you use it to get Venom Cannons shooting at the enemy's rear armour.

Rippers are great units to bodyguard Tyranid Primes. These are very complementary units, as Rippers are optimally killed with S6+ weaponry too and function as cheap wounds (10pt wounds, basically) for the Prime, instead of the other way around. They can screen Termagants at 2/3s the price of a Termagant wound, who can screen Warriors, Genestealers, Raveners, and Hive Guard. Don't recommend them in combination with Winged Tyrants though. I do recommend support units like Venomthropes, Lictors (multiple threat vector), Gargoyles (necessary for screening flying Monstrous Creatures and Carnifexen), and Tyranid Warriors (anchors the firebase).

I've found that you can get lots of coverage out of a unit of Termagants so long as you 'conga-line' tentacle-chains of Termagant models back between the units that they're screening. A unit of Termagants with two units of Warrors backing them up each would look like:
ooooooooo
OOOoOOO
____o
____ooooo


Os are 60mm base and T being a chain of 25mm bases.

Essentially your tail or tentacle needs to be at least as long as your coverage is wide or you'll lose coverage too easily. So why not use multiple small units? Because you're going to be crunched for points and one unit of 30 will do the work of 3 units of 10 (with 1/3 the casualties when they lose in close combat and take No Retreat wounds) and leave Troops space open for a small unit of Warriors and a small unit of Genestealers.

This chain is really important for allowing the unit of Termagants access to all parts of the board, and giving it a tremendous amount of free movement. The disadvantage is having models close to the board edge and Fall Back off the board...

Not a fan of harpies.

In terms of survivability, they are really quite comparable to a Broodlord, except with less chance of cover, they tend to suck...

I just don't like plonking 170pts into a single model, that can easily get one shotted...

It's not like they have crazy-good offensive power to balance out their god-awful survivability.

The only build I like is a TL Stranglethorn cannon with cluster spines; it's actually pretty vicious in kill-team.