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I'm having a real problem coming up with a stratergy to beat a couple of Ork armies, run by the same player. Maybe I'm just having a metal block, but it's annoying the heck out of me.

One list he runs is Kult of Speed; Wazzdaka, lots of bike, buggies and kopters. It feels like his force is just too fast and manourverable-even for a mono Slaanesh list. His other is the anthithesis of this; Shooter boyz, a couple Battlewagons, Meganobz.

I have tried to keep things fast and manouverable, avoiding Khorne and Nurgle, and having some shooting. The problem is the resulting army is a bit too fragile. Maybe I'm just not playing it right. This was the last list I went for (from memory,so not 100% accurate, but hopefully you get the gist):

Keeper of Secrets
Herald of Tzeench, Chariot, Bolt

5 Fiends
5 Fiends (might have been 3 flamers now I think about it..)

10 Deamonettes
10 Deamonettes
5 Horrors, Bolt, Changleling
5 Horrors, Bolt

5 Seekers
3 Screamers

Soul Grinder, tongue
D.P MoS ( and some other stuff...)

Any advice would be appreciated

What units/models do you have available.

I'm not qualified to give advice on Daemons, but if I may say this, there are two Daemon players on Dakka whom my Orks have a healthy dose of respect for: Hulksmash and Yermom. Send one or both of them a message with a link to this thread asking for them to contribute their opinions.

Without being at home, hard to tell....off the top of my head..

30 Deamonettes
30ish Horrors
15 Bloodletters
10 Fiends /Blood crushers
9 flamers
21 Plaguebearers (ok..they're fantasy ghouls mostly..)
a lot of Nurglings
4 Seekers
9 Screamers
4 Beasts of Nurgle
Epidemius
Skulltaker (on a Jugg and off)
1 of each greater Deamon
2 DP
2 SG

Thank goodness for Ebay!!
I can do counts as if need be.We play 1500-2000

DakkaDakka wrote:

but also remember that the orks will run in mobs 30+ strong. If you don't break them in one assault they will ruin your troops and units.

Blood Letters and Daemonettes are still easily within killing ability of an Ork with 2-3 attacks. Esp since it costs about 1/3 of your troop choices.

My advise- grab some flamers for some suicide goodness, keep the fiends and invest in some bloodcrushers. I have done real numbers on Orks with my BC's with hearld of jugger attatchment. Does some real damage.

Some thoughts;

Grinders x 3 are actually pretty good against Orks. AV 13-14 is a pain for them to deal with, outside of watching their Deff Rollas and a Grinder can squad down a Boy Mob for awhile until you can hammer it with something else. Drop Tongue though, just keep the flame option/vanilla build. They also Insta-death nobz/meganobz.

Crushers are always good. Always. If you get the charge against him, he'll need 4s to hit and 6's to wound. Unique allocate those Crushers and you'll have a good unit to take it to him.

A unit of PBs is 'almost' a must to squat objectives.

Some initial thoughts...

Fate-crusher is good against Orks. They have a lot of trouble with this build. Don't forget to boon the powerklaw nob. You might get lucky.

Against Orks, I would suggest to field some Plague Bearers, Str 5 w/t Feel No Pain will hold up against Orks for a good time. I also agree with fielding Slaanesh Daemons their high Iniative and rending attacks will deal a lot of attacks.

DakkaDakka wrote:

My problem with Bloodletters has been, in this case, being shot up by a load of shootas (in the case of the shoota/BW list) or just being outmanouvered by the KoS list. I know that Bloodletters/'Crushers are what will do the job best, it's just a matter of getting them there alive!! With Deamonettes, I know I'm not doing as much damage, but I can DS them far away, behind cover, and then charge them from distance.

How about using multiple Pavanes? The Masque, Dp's, even Blue Scribes. That way, I can maybe DS a bit further away, and pavane the Boyz in range of some big units...

My other thought was to go with a Epidemus list. Lots of FnP, a GUO, plagueswords eventually wounding on 3+,a scattering a screamers purely for the BWs...

Epi lists can work provided they aren't mech'd up. If they are, you're hurting. I ran Epi for a bit, here are some thoughts;

Epi
GUO

Beasts of Nurgle (They get nasty when you get tally)

PB as you see fit
NURGLINGS They get crazy later on and have good movement for a Nurgle list

3 Princes with Gaze----These guys get your tally early




Problem with Epi lists;

You may not get the split you want---tally doesn't start until Epi hits the table
Mech....mech....mech
Smart opponents will target your DP early, which are the main tally grabbing unit you have

I thought of adding a few Screamers. Although they don't add to tally, they are perfect at just hitting armour. I must admit I was more worried about him turning up with his Kult of Speed..

Yeah, Daemons just struggle against armor unless you run heavy Tzeentch. Screamers certainly can help. RE: Mobility----I know the feeling. Nothing is more miserable than playing an Epi list and getting a 1st round Mechdar opponent.

The only thing you can really do is camp objectives and tell yourself to be patient----sooner or later he'll have to get out of his metal box.

I'd suggest twin bloodthirsters and twin winged princes with mark of Nurgle. 1 soulgrinder for the reasons above, and loads of plaguebearers. Keep the winged ones hidden if you can and use them to support any combats the troops get into. They can soak up the hits and destroy orks if they ever do get the charge off. Don't forget to reroll failed to wound rolls... makes them more offensive than they look.

I know that is a very different army than what you have, but proxy it and see how you like it.

Flamers DESTROY ork mobs, simply put. Last game I had was against orks, 3 flamers killed 12 stormboys, felt good plus they put a huge dent in mobs

Well, the best way to fight Orks with daemons is with Flamers possibly with Breath of Chaos to fight against high-toughness units like Jet Bikers.

Blood Thirsters and Juggernaughts are also a great unit to have in your army as people have said before me.

You could also add more Daemon Princes w/t Warp Time to tear into the orks.

How about something like this?

2 GOU with flies and Breath (or touch..)
2x 3 Flamers, Bolt

2x 14 plaguebearers with touch
2x10 Bloodletters with unholy might
2x 5 Horrors, changleling, bolt

some screamers and some seekers (or flesh hounds)

1 Nurgle DP, Iron Hide, Gaze,Flies
1 Tzeench DP with Bolt and Gaze
1 Slaanesh DP with wings, Pavane,Musk

Against the Boyz/Mech list Use the flamers to soften up the footsloggers and PB's as a screen for the bloodletters so they can assault the boyz in relative safety. Use the horros against the boyz and the BW with their bolt. DP's and the FA options are for mech and contents

Against the bikers, I'm going to use the PB's to divide them in to two groups, still screeening the bloodletters, and flame/bolt/shoot them before assaulting with DP's and bloodletters....

Is that a plan??

I found daemons particularily hard for my orks to beat. I couldn't beat up his units in combat as well as I should be able to because of orks terrible init, they're all immune to IK.

I found shooting them worked well, so then you have to try to stop his shooting. Big shootas and shoota boy squads of 20+ make daemon infantry go squish.

As an Ork player, all I really fear in the Daemons codex is Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Daemonettes, Fiends, and Seekers.

MC's die to my Lootas actually quite easily.

Charging Power Klaws make short work of Grinders, when it comes down to it.

And your Flamers get one round of shooting, at most, before they're charged and tied up/kill in melee (unless you run huge units, which is bad for lots of other reasons).

Dealing with Khorne stuff is a pain, even if I get the charge. Ghazghkull is the only one really able to wade through a unit of Bloodcrushers.

Slannesh stuff is a pain because it's extremely quick and much harder to get the charge off against, especially their beasts/cavalry. Sure, Nobz will overcome them with wound allocation games, but sending Boyz against Slanneshi models is downright frightening.

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:How about something like this?

2 GOU with flies and Breath (or touch..)
2x 3 Flamers, Bolt

2x 14 plaguebearers with touch
2x10 Bloodletters with unholy might
2x 5 Horrors, changleling, bolt

some screamers and some seekers (or flesh hounds)

1 Nurgle DP, Iron Hide, Gaze,Flies
1 Tzeench DP with Bolt and Gaze
1 Slaanesh DP with wings, Pavane,Musk

Against the Boyz/Mech list Use the flamers to soften up the footsloggers and PB's as a screen for the bloodletters so they can assault the boyz in relative safety. Use the horros against the boyz and the BW with their bolt. DP's and the FA options are for mech and contents

Against the bikers, I'm going to use the PB's to divide them in to two groups, still screeening the bloodletters, and flame/bolt/shoot them before assaulting with DP's and bloodletters....

Is that a plan??

That's what this list is about, trying to deliver Bloodletters to within charge range (to stop them being shot up by Shootaz) by screenng them with Plaguebearers, and using Pavane to get units closer faster. Should I go for Flamers (with Bolt) or Fiends??

DakkaDakka wrote: