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That is, can you break down the percentage of how important certain things are? The main elements of the game that might factor into tactics (that I can think of) are:

--list-building (which is coupled with purchasing power)
--mission type (whether favorable, unfavorable, or neutral to your army)
--deployment type (whether favorable, unfavorable, or neutral to your army)
--turn order
--deployment
--battle strategy throughout the game
--knowing the rules
--knowing your opponent's rules/units*

So which is most important? Is it possible to do a general percentage breakdown between these elements? Am I missing elements?

I'm new to the game, and as such don't have many answers. I'm posting this largely because I often feel overwhelmed at the table and don't even know where to begin in terms of focus, so I'm looking for some help!

*This one in particular is difficult. I still have to look at my weapon profiles and army summary every time I shoot or attack; it seems unlikely that I'll get decent knowledge over what my enemies have even over the next year. Like, my opponent can say, "this Wraithlord has a scatter laser and a missile launcher and a shuriken cannon," and even though I've read the Wraithlord's entry, I'm not going to be able to remember all those profiles and shooting distances &c, not for many many games, at least. And that's just one unit in one army!

I suppose I'm a little daunted by 40k, and want to hear other people's experiences as newbies and be encouraged.

Hans:

Read the Tournament preparation guide in my signature. It pretty much addresses all those things. List building, what questions to ask (while you're still in the learning opponent information stage).....it would be a good start for you.

For things not included in what I'm asking you to go read, how "important" things like turn order and deployment are - they are not general terms that can be assigned values; they're completely dependent on the army and list you bring.

So it basically boils down to this:

You need to know the rules. You need to know what other codexes can do. You'll learn this over time.

Approaching a game, half of the battle is bringing a list capable of meeting any threats before you. The other half is in how you use your list to deal with your opponent.

That's it!

Thanks, I'll read that guide!

I've been reading a lot of 3++ is the New Black & Killhammer stuff, as well.

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Shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.

You will never lose a game.


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On a more serious note, learn the rules and play a lot of games. There's no substitute for experience.

Focus on the objectives. Figure out how you will achieve them and prevent your opponent from achieving them, and then never forget the plan during the course of the game. Be ready to alter the plan if units you were counting on die, or fail to die, when you need them to.

Plan in advance, when deploying, how many turns of movement given units will need to reach certain objectives. This can include your opponent's units, if you can reasonably guess what he will do with them (how long will it take those Thunderwolves to reach my stuff?). Bear that in mind. Position yourself to be able to win the game on turn 5, and have forces left to keep it up if the game goes 6 or 7. If you have not positioned to win by turn 5, you are asking to lose on a single unlucky die roll.

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Tactics or strategy?

Strategy: I hold my one objective in football and contest yours, since the object of this game is to have more objectives than your opponent and there are only two objectives. All off nurglitch's tactics could possibly serve this purpose.

Tactics are the tools you use to achieve your strategy. Before you can win, though, you have to have some sort of strategy.

That is the key to 40k...having the experience to know which strategy to employ, then successfully executing your tactics to achieve it.

Before you make an army list, pick units, move units, etc...what strategy are you going to win with?

Base your gameplan, army list, and units around that and you'll be fine.

Monster Rain wrote:Shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.

I tried to chop the Tau in my last game and got shot to pieces on the way there!


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scuddman wrote:Tactics or strategy?

Strategy: I hold my one objective in football and contest yours, since the object of this game is to have more objectives than your opponent and there are only two objectives. All off nurglitch's tactics could possibly serve this purpose.

Tactics are the tools you use to achieve your strategy. Before you can win, though, you have to have some sort of strategy.

That is the key to 40k...having the experience to know which strategy to employ, then successfully executing your tactics to achieve it.

Before you make an army list, pick units, move units, etc...what strategy are you going to win with?

Base your gameplan, army list, and units around that and you'll be fine.

Good advice, but I think I'm at a loss as to how to formulate a strategy. Perhaps I'm thinking about it too hard.

Bring enough of your own shooty ones to suppress his shooty ones, so your choppy ones can get there!

Bring Outflanky or Deepstriky ones to get at the enemy backfield without everybuddy havin' ta cross da killin' fields.


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Hans Chung-Otterson wrote:Good advice, but I think I'm at a loss as to how to formulate a strategy. Perhaps I'm thinking about it too hard.

Maybe. Strategy starts with your army list, and the missions in the rulebook. Think about how your army list, in general, will win them.

What units will you use to hold objectives?
What units will contest/take away the ones your opponent attempts to hold?
What units will you use to get at and at least contest your opponent's home objective in Cap & Control?
What units will you need to hide/give cover to/or hold in reserve if it's a KP mission and you're not going first?

Strategy next is shaped at the actual table, when you see the terrain, the mission, and your opponent's army list. You need to be familiar with what his stuff can do so you can make educated decisions about HOW you will achieve your goals. The answers to the questions I gave above may be modified depending on their list and the terrain on the table.

At my most recent tournament the first mission was Kill Points, against Tau on a moderate-terrain table, going second. I started my Rhinos on the table (behind cover as best I could manage, although I could not completely hide them) because I knew that I needed them as far forward as possible for my assault units to get there, and my icon-bearers to be in position to bring in my terminators and lesser daemons safely. My Daemon Prince also was there, hidden. My Obliterators also on the table, using the Rhinos for cover. My Havocs were on the table, in area terrain, positioned so that only my opponent's longest-range guns could reach them, but their 48" missile launchers could reach his skimmers. This mitigated the amount of damage my havocs would be likely to sustain going second, but gave them the best ability to contribute to the game- if I had put them in reserve, obviously they would not be shooting until turn 3 at the earliest- and I really needed them and the oblits firing on turns 1 and 2, to suppress his vehicles' firepower to help my assault units successfully reach his side of the table. My Dreadnought I put in reserve, as I knew it would be too vulnerable, and also that since it is a walker it could still fire the turn it moved onto the table.

Write balanced lists, designed to take on all threats (obviously keep the meta in mind a bit) then play test said list like a fiend. its one thing to write a list, its another entirely to know how to use it.

Tactics and strategy have already been covered. Basically, decide what you're going to do and do it, indecision is a killer. You should have a plan for every unit, even if its just run forward and act as human cover. Place your objectives where you think you're going to end up.

Judging by your profile image I'd guess you play marines? If not then ignore this bit.

The humble rhino can win you the game, not just through getting your choppy guys there, but also once they get there, use it to block movement and LOS, cheap tanks shocks, even force a few more saves with its storm bolter. And never forget self repair.

I just wanted to note that you can't do tactics without strategy or vice versa... Good player has to excel in everything that you mentioned in first post... You can't say what's more important.

Shure list building is symetrick with purchase power, but at some point you get all the moddels and yet you do not winn. List building is also a lott about understanding the codex you are using.

Chinchilla is right. Strategy can be thought of as goal-setting, while tactics are how you achieved those goals.

Nurglitch wrote:List-building? No tactics, strategy.
Deployment? Again, strategy.
Knowing the rules? Strictly necessary.
Turn order. Yup, more strategy.

Position of actual models and units on the board during a game? Yup, tactics.

Think of your strategy as your goal for the game, the foundation upon which you can build your tactics. Alternately, imagine tactics as how you will achieve your strategy.

For example, your strategy may be to take an entirely mechanized army list, or multiple small units in order to flood your opponent with targets. Lining up your Chimeras and Artillery to protect each other's AV10 flanks would be a tactic for flooding your opponent with AV12 targets.

Strategy will win the battle
Tactics will win the fights

proper micromanagement of units = tactics = placement, target priority, mathhammering does help

proper management of units should play into an overall theme, aka strategy

Lots of really good posts here. Main thing is to focus on what you want to do. Plan how you want to do it. Execute.