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Could someone fill me in?
I am usually quite good with 40k fluff, but this area escapes me completely.
All I know is that they used to hate the Necrons.

The old ones were the first race to venture the stars.
Their "real" name is lost, since they are a only myth now.
These old ones created the webway, the orks, the elfs, the jokaero and many other things and races.
The age of the old ones ended, when the war with the C'tan/necron alliance went badly. In the first stages, the old ones beat the necrontyr.
But then those searched for an "ally" and found the stargods, beeings of energy feeding on stars. These later called C'Tan accepted the pact with the necrons
and changed the necrontyr in that process into the necrons. ( from biological life to artificial life ).
To counter the C'tan, the old ones fielded a lot of psychic races like the eldar, disturbing the empyrean.
Using the raw power of the empyrean changed the calm realm into the hell we now know as warp.
The old ones didn't survive the struggle ( per codex necrons..).

The intersting question will be if the fluff of codex necrons stays And/or is expanded upon. Because the necron codex is one of the few sources for Old ones.

They are also the ones that created the WHFB Lizardmen. Makes me wonder if the WHFB world is just another post-black powder planet in the Imperium of Man in 40k.

the Old Ones were the creaters of many of the sentient races.


they had utter mastery of the Warp(at the time, peaceful) and used it's power to create lesser worker races to serve them.


the Necrons were embittered at the Old Ones long Lives and began a great war with them. the Necron's eventually won with the aid of the C'tan.


the Old Ones were belived to have created the Eldar and the Ork races.

they also created the Webway.


they are now extinct.

Hückleberry wrote:They are also the ones that created the WHFB Lizardmen. Makes me wonder if the WHFB world is just another post-black powder planet in the Imperium of Man in 40k.

The Old Ones in WHFB are completely, catagorically, 100% in no way related to the Old Ones in 40k.

While the two universes were once commented as being the same, with Sigmar being a Primarch, GW have now totally retconned this and the two game universes are completely seperate.

And even if they were in the same universe the WHFB world would not be part of the IoM, seeing as it is full of xeno controlled areas and a direct link to the warp, thats the kind of thing that gets a planet completey destroyed.

Slann!

ta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thanks loads!!!!!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Slann!

+1, dispite what they try to say now days its the Slann.

Noir wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Slann!

+1, dispite what they try to say now days its the Slann.

even in the old, OLD, fluff, the Old ones were NEVER Slann.

The slaan were another servitor race to th Old Ones i think. They basically were the administrative assistants and overseers that carried out the Old Ones' orders (old fluff and WHFB, mainly)

I miss the Fimir and the Zoats Zoats in 40K again would be cool, but not as Nids..

Reminds me of that old song:
Zoats eat goats and goats eat oats but little nids eat everything.

Heres more Infomation on Old Ones

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones

There is a theory bandied about that the last of the old ones were the eldar gods such as khain and vaul, etc. this would fit as the eldar gods fought against both the C'tan and Chaos.

another theory is that the orks gods were the same (esentialy gork being khain and mork being vaul). as well as orks having a similar past to the slann in that their ancestors (or at least part thereof) were much more advanced and intelegent.

I think thats a pretty interesting theory; that the Orks brutal, thuggish, and tribal gods are the same as the Eldar's ancient and refined deities.

I have my own theory about the Old Ones.

After the Necrontyr where defeated ( for the time being ). The last of the Old Ones goes to Earth and destroy all their technology to start over - becoming the Humanity. And the last great prophets of the Old Ones in the end sacrifice themselves - to create Emperor 8000 years B.C.

I have claim this theory on 3 things:

1- They have created almost all of today's great races, having the knowledge of predicting race evolution. They had interfere with all of great races ( Eldar, Orks... ) but they never had influence Humanity, and in the end it's Humanity who has the most control of the galaxy.

2- The Eldar where their greatest crafted race that they have even left them Webways. I imagine that they created them in their own image, or close enough. And it's odd that Human and Eldar look almost the same, being that they are 2 different races and have no contacts until GAoH.

3- If their last great prophets sacrifice themselves to create the Emperor. Then the Emperor should have some of their knowledge left with himself. And what was the Emperor build beneath the Golden Throne - a Webway gate.

It's just a theory, fell free to discus.

I believe they were desribed in the Necron codex as reptilian.

If you want to go that route maybe they degenerated into dinosaurs

Personally i find the 'emperor created by psykers int he middle ages' fluff ridiculous and annoying, as when I started he was a warlord from the dark future who pacified earth through wars with some fairly crude tech (MK 1 marine armour hadn't been invented yet in the truly ancient fluff, and is crude as hades by 'modern' standards.). He couldn't heal machines by touch or similar back them either. He was a lot less 'jesus in power armour' and a lot more 'vin deisel in power armour' back then

Rant done. Fluff changes, usually for the worse.

Humanocentricity is already a bad enough problem within the 40k universe, so i'm going to counterargue that the Old Ones were very much Xenos, and not remotely human. I think humanity is also described at the time as a comical bunch of moneys that kept falling out of trees, somewhere in the fluff

It's the Slann. In RT, the Old Ones were Slann, which were just space lizardmen models you could buy and use as a unit.

Of course fluff changes over time, but this part of it was NEVER ONCE retcon'd in anyway.

This is how 40k fluff operates. 99% of it is just hearsay and open to interpretation. When you playing 40k you aren't playing a storyline that is currently happening, you are actually flipping through the pages of a book and writing your stories within the mythical 40k universe. If you choose to play in a current storyline, great, but the game is designed for players to create their own mythologies, stories and adventures over the course of thousands of years.

So, even though I maintain the idea that the Old Ones were/are Slann, others may disagree, and that is fine, no one is wrong or right, but if you actually want to know where the idea of the Slann/Old Ones came from originally, then look at Rogue Trader. If you go by "modern" fluff, no one knows what the Old Ones were.

I think the fluff has transformed over the years to one of a niche game system to one that is approaching really good sci-fi/space opera proportions. The fluff will outlive the game I'm sure.

The old fluff where marines were 'grunts' sporting 5 o'clock shadows, speaking in slang, wearing impossibly shaped armor (based on crappy modeling techniques) and toting cartoon weaponry are slowly being rewritten. All of that old stuff will be funneled more and more toward the Orks to satisfy those of us *raises hand* who enjoyed the tongue in cheek nature of the old ways. We are witnessing the maturation of the fluff... for good or ill.

GW and the BL have stated that all the fluff we know of is all part of a grand illusion propagated by rumor and inuendo. No one truly knows what's happening. This has been done to keep all options open for fluff advancement. What are seen as the hard and fast lines of fluff can be rewritten at a moments notice to change something to suit the needs of the creators. So don't get too attached to any preconceived notions you might have.

The Old Ones may have been reptiles in the hard written rules 20 years ago, but now as the fluff matures and tries to become respectable, this notion should be considered simply a rumor and not the truth.

Even the informational fluff in the individual codexes are truths distorted by idiosyncratic myopia at the very best.

The change that GW and BL have brought forth to justify fluff is simply genius.

the only reason i bring up the eldar and ork gods theory is that both races were created by the old ones, and the fluff says that the old ones were worshiped as gods, soooo.....

anyways, old ones have very little to do with humanity, emperor was 'created' when all the human shamans/wizards/whatever(psykers) killed themselves at once in pre-history.

i think that fluff has been around for a while too.

I thought the Old Ones were wiped out by the Enslaver Plague, it says in Lexi that these infiltrated their last strongholds and destroyed them. (They could only because the Necrons weakened the Old Ones.)

I don't want to spoil anything, but weren't the aliens featured in the book Legion, the old ones? That's the impression I got anyway.

I agree that the enslavers finished wiping out the enslavers and almost all life with psycker abilities. so the necrons went dormant to wait for more life to suck energy from.

Trying hard to understand that post

Enslavers wiped out the Enslavers..

Brain freeze! System reboot.

The Enslaver plague was unwittingly released by the old ones, and looked likely to wipe out all life. The Necrons, being automata with no need to eat or breathe and no psychic signal, couldn't care less, but the C'tan went into hibernation due to their food source being destroyed, and took their servants with them.

The Eldar, Joakearo (sp?), Orks and other Old One creations survived the Enslaver Plague, as did the furry little chimps that would one day become humanity The old ones are gone, as far as anyone knows. They might show up agai, or not. If they do i'm so buying their codex

Enslavers = daemons? Certainly warp entities, and they're mentioned as Enslavers in 3rd edition rulebook and before in the fluff.

i'm fairly sure the enslavers didn't wipe out the enslavers..

well, if the old ones are the eldar gods, that would make sense seings as they were killed off by slaanesh, only one left is the laughing god i think .... I think the other ones still exist in the warp (hence avatars though i think that might just be colective fury from the infinity circuits?) though i might be wrong on that.

anyways, i thought the necrons went into hibernation to wait out the psychic storm created by new races, at least thats what the codex says

Nah, the Old Ones are the Old Ones, not Eldar Gods. The Eldar Gods are more like racial Ideals and Will made manifest/progenitors of the Eldar given mythic status.

The Enslavers don't seem to be daemons, but they still exist (for some reason they don't appear in the numbers they did..)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslavers

Hückleberry wrote:They are also the ones that created the WHFB Lizardmen. Makes me wonder if the WHFB world is just another post-black powder planet in the Imperium of Man in 40k.

Intresting thought .....(fun to play around with).

Mark1130 wrote:

Hückleberry wrote:They are also the ones that created the WHFB Lizardmen. Makes me wonder if the WHFB world is just another post-black powder planet in the Imperium of Man in 40k.

Intresting thought .....(fun to play around with).

Apart from the fact that it isn't true at all, if you read my earlier post on GW's view on WHFB's relationship with 40k.

If GW ever decides to resolve these kinds of things, I can see humanity being the Old Ones that managed to save a bit of their race on Earth against the Necrons. Halo did the same thing with humanity and the Forerunners.

Harriticus wrote:If GW ever decides to resolve these kinds of things, I can see humanity being the Old Ones that managed to save a bit of their race on Earth against the Necrons. Halo did the same thing with humanity and the Forerunners.

The Old Ones are described as cold blooded, so most likely wouldn't be the beginning of humanity.

As to the Enslavers, not every creature that resides in the warp is a deamon, Deamons are only one type of warp entity.